Bullets sliding out of shell after reloading!

[KBP75]

After reloading for 35 years, I have a strange resizing problem. My bullets fit loose in the case neck after reloading. I full length re-sized the shells with a (recently bought) used C&H .308 Winchester set of reloading dies! No matter how deep I resize the shells, the bullets can be put in and pulled out by hand! What am I doing wrong? Was I sold a bad set of reloading dies?

[balderclev]

Are you sure it was actually a 308 die?

[KBP75]

Yes! Its a .308 Winchester die set. The neck expander button is bigger than the neck expender button on my 30:06 neck expander! Maybe needs a new smaller neck expander button?

[mehavey]

Out of curiosity, will your 30-06 expander threaded stem fit the C&H ?

[KBP75]

I will have to check that out! My big problem is that I need to make the necks of my shells I expanded a little smaller! Maybe a new die set- Lee .308 Winchester Deluxe Rifle Die Set 90614 with the Lee collet neck sizing die?

[mehavey]

just screw the expander from the 30-06 into the C&H and go...

[KBP75]

The problem is that after shooting any .308 ammo so far, the case neck is too big to hold the reloaded bullet in firmly! Just sliding the 3006 case neck expander or the .308 case neck expander will NOT make the case neck smaller to hold the bullet. My dies will NOT make the case neck smaller! Why has this never been a problem reloading .243, 32 special, .270, 35 Remington, 3006 or any other caliber?

[higgite]

What size neck bushing are you using? Are you sure it's full length sizing your brass? I thought they only make neck sizers.

ETA: Measure the neck diameter of an unsized case. Remove the decapper/expander rod from the die and resize the case. What is the neck diameter now?

[Powderman]

To the OP:

Your problem is definitely the expander ball, and possibly the die as well.

Here's an experiment to do: measure the neck, ID and OD, on a .308 and a .30-06 case. You will find that the measurements are the same, on a new, unfired case. Why? They use the same bullets, and are actually similar cases, with the '06 being a bit longer, of course.

Now, take both of these brand new cases and size them in their respective sizing dies. You will probably find that the .30-06 case is expanded too much. What has probably happened is that someone replaced the .308 expander ball with one suitable for .311 or even .323 (8mm) bullets.

The Lee die set should take care of your problems--or, if you're shooting for accuracy, buy a neck sizer for .30 caliber.

[Unclenick]

KPB,

Remove the expander completely. Size one case. Does a bullet still slide down into the neck? If so, the die is bad. If not, then the die is fine and the expander is just too big.

[Mike / Tx]

Start off by checking the die body to be sure it is sizing the OD of the case necks down to the proper size. Do this as described above where you simply remove the expander stems from both your 308 and your 30-06 dies and size a case or two through each checking the OD first and then the ID just to be sure its not a case brands issue.

Another easy test, since you pulled the expander ball out of both the .308 and the '06 die, now measure the OD of each. If the OD on the ball from the .308 die is bigger, simply chuck it up in your drill and polish it down to the proper size, or to the size the one from your 30-06 measures.

Usually takes a bit of 400 cloth type sand paper followed up with some 600 or so for a fine polish. Just use light tension holding a piece of the cloth sandpaper between your fingers. Go slow and measure often.

I have had issues with neck tension in the past caused by an expander ball that was slightly bigger, and it only takes a few minutes with a drill to fix it for good.

[Salmoneye]

The larger expander is used for loading cast lead...

Cast needs to be .001-.002" over groove diameter, and needs a gas check at .308 velocities...The larger expander leaves the case mouth too loose for jacketed bullets, but is necessary so as not to swage down the cast lead and gas check when seating the boolit...

Either trade or sell that die and expander to a cast shooter...

Another easy test, since you pulled the expander ball out of both the .308 and the '06 die, now measure the OD of each. If the OD on the ball from the .308 die is bigger, simply chuck it up in your drill and polish it down to the proper size, or to the size the one from your 30-06 measures.

Someone paid extra for that expander, and to turn it down would be a shame...

[KBP75]

Thanks for all the help! The only thing I don't understand is why after shooting a factory new .308, the shell case neck is big enough to allow a new bullet to easily slide in and out of the shell. After full length sizing the shell WITHOUT the case neck expander in the die, the case neck is still too big to hold a bullet! This proves in my mind, the expander is not expanding the neck of the case because the expander is not in the die! The die is not resizing the case neck to proper size! Maybe the die is bad or meant only for cast bullets?

[KBP75]

Unclenick; I think either the die is bad or it is made for cast bullet shooters. The die just does NOT down size the case at all. It re-sizes the case but doesn't do anything to the neck. Bullet slides in and out EXACTLY the same before and after both dies are used no matter how the dies are adjusted.

[mehavey]

I'll be honest, I've never heard of a resizing die for a bottleneck cartridge that does not resize the
neck as a start. While we do it all the time for single-shot BPCRs in which the cast bullet seats
firmly against both the powder column and the lands, bottleneck cases aren't loaded that way.

When using slightly oversize cast bullets in my my 30-06, for instance, I still resize the
neck and then expand it again with whatever diameter is need (or alternately use a bushing die
to size the neck down to a custom diamater that fits the requirement.)

Am I missing something here?

[BigD_in_FL]

Does the actual DIE say .308, or just the box? Any chance the wrong die is in the box? Any chance they started out as 308 and were modified for a widcat?

[F. Guffey]

KPB, I have a leaver policy, I leaver the way I found-er. The leaver policy requires other disciplines, I do not chuck stuff up in an electric hand drill with abrasives into my dies and alter my dies, I do have dies I have acquired that have been bubberized, for me? Not a problem, it does not take me long to look at something to determine what Bubba did it his misguided effort.

The up-side, you could have a body/shoulder/bump die, meaning you need a neck sizer die, some recommend the Lee Colet die, I don’t. Problem, the 308 W is a short die, if the chamber was a 30/06 length chamber the 308 W full length sizer die would allow you to neck size the 30/06 neck, and that would require a decent understanding of adjusting the die off the shell holder.

F. Guffey

[KBP75]

As of now, I am buying a Lee Pacesetter 3 die set in 308. This die set has a crimp die included. This will solve the loose bullet issue. I think the C&H die set is for cast bullets or just needs a separate 30 cal neck sizer.

[mehavey]

Don't use the [Lee or any] crimp die -- just a hint.
Neck tension alone in a properly sized/expanded case should be more than enough. **



**
I do roll-crimp cast.
I do not crimp jacketed.

[KBP75]

BigDinFL! Thanks for your reply. Please read post #3 - Yes, it says .308 on the dies themselves! The problem is that the dies don't reduce the neck size or crimp at all so the bullet fits just loose enough to push in or pull out of the shell after using the dies.

[F. Guffey]

"The up-side, you could have a body/shoulder/bump die, meaning you need a neck sizer die, some recommend the Lee Colet die, I don’t"

I am not the fan of bump dies, body dies and or do-nut creating dies of any type, coffee? Same thing, I want coffee and nothing. If I wanted a bump/body/shoulder die for the 30/06 I would use the 8mm57 full length sizer die, the 308 bullet would fit the neck of the 8mm neck only where it touched.

F. Guffey

[higgite]

Maybe the die is bad or meant only for cast bullets?

Or maybe it's a bushing die with no bushing installed?

[F. Guffey]

“The problem is that the dies don't reduce the neck size or crimp at all so the bullet fits just....”

I am assuming you have one die that is a full length sizer die and I assume you know the sizer die does not crimp, as has been suggested, reducing the diameter of the case neck increases bullet hold, if you are planning on going for ‘neck tension’ you will need to understand ‘interference fit’, I can do interference fitting with a press fit, chill fit and or heat fit, problem, I can measure bullet hold, I can not measure tension.

Back to the part where I said I was the fan of bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get.

F. Guffey

[Salmoneye]

Thanks for all the help! The only thing I don't understand is why after shooting a factory new .308, the shell case neck is big enough to allow a new bullet to easily slide in and out of the shell. After full length sizing the shell WITHOUT the case neck expander in the die, the case neck is still too big to hold a bullet! This proves in my mind, the expander is not expanding the neck of the case because the expander is not in the die! The die is not resizing the case neck to proper size! Maybe the die is bad or meant only for cast bullets?

If the neck is not getting sized at all even without the expander, then there is either an issue with the die itself, or you are not screwing the die all the way down to the shell holder...

Did you mic the expander?

[mehavey]

KBP: Do us a favor and pull the die apart to show all the pieces and post a picture of it.
That'll probably help quite a bit in figuring out what we're dealing with.