cyote caliber

Bt148 · February 15, 2000, 09:23 PM

I am interested in cyote hunting and was wondering what calibers, out of the ones I own, would work the best.
Here are my options:
.300 mag out of a Remington 700
.308 out of a Remington model 70
.280 out of a Remington model 700
12 & 20 gauge shotguns
.22lr out of a Ruger 10/22 or Ruger 22/45
.357sig/.40s&w out of a Sig 229

bt

PS
My son shot a cyote with the .308 while he was deer hunting. The .308 seemed to do a lot of damage to the dog.

Ankeny · February 15, 2000, 10:07 PM

Lately, I have been using a Polaris 700 RMK.

Probably a bit heavy. Of your choices I'd use the rifle you like the best. None of them are really good for pelts.

Art Eatman · February 15, 2000, 11:12 PM

Don't use the .22LR unless it's a dead gimme for a head shot. Not enough real oomph. A light bullet in the .280 looks like your best bet for a rifle.

If your 12-gauge is full-choke, or you have the screw-in type and the tube, #2 or 0 buck or 00 buck will do. I'd limit myself to 35 or 40 yards, generally. Good forest/brush gun at those typically under 25-yard close ranges...

I knew a Highway Patrol guy who used to call them up to his patrol car, and shoot them with his service revolver.

FWIW, Art

[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited February 15, 2000).]

MAD DOG · February 16, 2000, 08:36 PM

Use any of those center fires you like the best, assuming you are not after pelts.
The .308 will have the best powder economy, and they kill yodel dogs well.
The .280 would be my second choice of those listed.
This is a bumper crop year for coyotes here, and the pelts are all terrible, so we are not nearly as concerned with the pelts as we are with thinning out the dogs.

If you are after pelts, the small fast calibers are *much* better. You do not want those gourgeous smoking exit wounds on a pelt that you are going to try to sell.
We used .17 Remington, .222, and .223 in Montana with great effect. No bullets heavier than 55 grains, always hollow points.

Dr.Rob · February 17, 2000, 05:06 PM

223 with a 55 grain soft point will not ruin a pelt and the bullet will expand.

Dr.Rob

labgrade · February 17, 2000, 09:50 PM

I'm for the .280 & .308 for what was listed. & I'd use FMJ bullets. Should shoot right through with minimal damage to pelt, unless you hit bone & all bets are off.

Too, if you reload, you can push many bullets at way less than max & acheive the FMJ syndrome (no expansion) but you'll have to be a bit betetr at your range extimation as the trajectory will suffer some.

'Course, if you don't care about the pelts, that .300 should reach out pretty well.

Coinneach · February 18, 2000, 12:33 PM

Any opinions on the suitability of .303 for coyotes? I load .311" 125gr Speer JSP over 45gr of Reloder 15; turns squash into vapor. Seems to me this would be a good coyote round.

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

Art Eatman · February 20, 2000, 05:52 PM

Coinneach: Oughta work fine. Quick kill, which is the main idea. Since you're not after a marketable hide, you're not concerned about a ripped pelt...

Regards, Art

Hueco · February 21, 2000, 10:30 AM

Well, I figure this question fits semi-well into this thread. What is the realistic range for coyotes on a .22 mag -- and should I go for a head shot or somewhere else? The rifle I shoot is a plain ole Marlin 882SS, but that little guy is easily capable of sub-MOA.

So...what range and where to aim? Thanks fellas!

Hueco

Forgot to mention -- I would certainly be out with hollow-points. Normally I shoot 40 grains, but I could pick up some RWS 50 grainers if I need too. Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by Hueco (edited February 21, 2000).]

Art Eatman · February 21, 2000, 03:32 PM

Hueco: I'd generalize that inside of 50 or so yards, head, neck or heart. Over 50 yards, head or neck shots only...

FWIW, Art

Hueco · February 21, 2000, 03:59 PM

Thanks Mr. Eatman! I will try for the head should I ever get the chance.

Hueco

muleshoe · February 21, 2000, 04:29 PM

I'm not a big fan of head shots. Oh yeah it's deadly enough when you place a bullet in the brain, trouble is your target is much smaller. Now the arguement can be made that you either kill it or miss it completely, but that's not always true. A shot in the jaw or snoot will not kill a coyote or deer right off. More than likely the critter will die a few days later from starvation or infection. I'm no big fan of coyotes and shoot everyone I get a decent shot at, but I don't want to have them crawling off and dying a prolonged death. A shot placed in the vital zone I feel is the best way to go. Broadside or from the front works about the same.

As far as the original question goes, if your not worried about pelt damage any of them will work. If your saving pelts I'd cut out the .300, .308, and .280, don't know how the pistol rds. will work. I've killed a lot of coyotes with a 20ga. loaded with #3buck out to about 40 yards using a call. Killed lots with stingers from a .22 also. MAD DOG mentioned the .17 rem., .222, and .223, all great varmint calibers without much pelt damage. Probably the best being the .17 rem., it rarely exits and turns their inards to mush. I'd also throw in a 22-250 and 220 swift as great varmint rounds.

------------------
bullet placement is gun control

**Bud Helms** · February 21, 2000, 08:32 PM

I dunno about shooting for the only spot that is wrapped completely in protective bone, i.e., the head. Accuracy may not be enough and I never did have much luck in the trick shootin' department.

Dr. Rob's .223 and Muleshoe's .222, .223, .22-250, the Swift and .17 have my vote.

Where? A four footed mammal. In the lungs. A little higher, the heart. Even a pest deserves a clean kill.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 21, 2000).]

Bt148 · February 21, 2000, 10:24 PM

Thanks a lot for all the replies!

From what I hear so far, I think that for closer shots that I'll probally go with the .22 out of my 10/22 and for the longer shots I'll use the .280. I'll be using the smaller calibers because I sorta want to keep the pelts, but not sell them.
I keep on hearing about the .17 rem. What's so great about this cartrige? It seems like shooting a pelet from a bb gun at extremely high speeds. What kind of ballistics does the .17 rem produce? How much powder is pushing that little bullet?

bt

**Bud Helms** · February 22, 2000, 08:23 PM

Hornady, 3rd Ed, Copywright 1980, ninth printing 1989. .17 Remington is very close to a .223 necked down to take a .172 bullet. Hornady only shows one bullet: 25 gr hollow point. Sect dens: .121. BC: .190. All loads are fired from a Rem Model 700, 24 in barrel, 1:10 twist. Rem brass and primers (sm rifle).

This little beauty STARTS at 3600 fps for all loads in this manual. 3900 fps is the most common max velocity (4100 fps for one load). Powders are IMR4198, RL7, IMR3031, BL-C2, W748, N203, IMR4064, IMR4895, H380, IMR4320, W760 and N204. From 17 grains all the way up to 28 grains. Looks like a pretty tolerant cartridge design.

The manual said that Hornady is the only bullet mfr still making the .172 bullet. They recommend the IMR 4320.

3900 fps! Whooo! That's a quick BB!

With a 200 yd zero at 3900 fps, starting at -1.5" at the muzzle, 1st zero at 50 yds, +0.9 at 100, +0.9 at 150, 2nd zero at 200, -2.0 at 250 and -5.5 at 300 yds. Peak of vertical rise is at 125 yds in this case. My guess is about 1.2" at 125 yds

A lot of cartridges shoot flatter. But, by all accounts ... no pelt damage. I never was curious enough or wealthy enough to spend big dollars on a specialized rifle/cartridge like this one.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 22, 2000).]

Halfpint · February 28, 2000, 02:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sensop:
Hornady, 3rd Ed, Copywright 1980, ninth printing 1989. .17 Remington is very close to a .223 necked down to take a .172 bullet. Hornady only shows one bullet: 25 gr hollow point. Sect dens: .121. BC: .190. All loads are fired from a Rem Model 700, 24 in barrel, 1:10 twist. Rem brass and primers (sm rifle).

This little beauty STARTS at 3600 fps for all loads in this manual. 3900 fps is the most common max velocity (4100 fps for one load). Powders are IMR4198, RL7, IMR3031, BL-C2, W748, N203, IMR4064, IMR4895, H380, IMR4320, W760 and N204. From 17 grains all the way up to 28 grains. Looks like a pretty tolerant cartridge design.

The manual said that Hornady is the only bullet mfr still making the .172 bullet. They recommend the IMR 4320.

3900 fps! Whooo! That's a quick BB!

With a 200 yd zero at 3900 fps, starting at -1.5" at the muzzle, 1st zero at 50 yds, +0.9 at 100, +0.9 at 150, 2nd zero at 200, -2.0 at 250 and -5.5 at 300 yds. Peak of vertical rise is at 125 yds in this case. My guess is about 1.2" at 125 yds

A lot of cartridges shoot flatter. But, by all accounts ... no pelt damage. I never was curious enough or wealthy enough to spend big dollars on a specialized rifle/cartridge like this one.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 22, 2000).][/quote]

Yep! One quick BB! But! It has one drawback. You've got to clean the danged thing around every 5th or 6th shot! (And I don't mean just pushing a few patches through it. I mean scrub, scrub, scrub!) A friend of mine has one and every time we go out to thin out the `pasture poodles' here on our farm he spends more time cleaning than he does shooting.

For coyotes I prefer .223 in a good semi-auto with a simple 4x or so scope so that just in case I have to snap off a second shot I can do it *quickly*. *If* I have the luxury of being able to set up where I can be where I am not right where they are possibly coming through I'll use my Browning `Varminter' in .223 with my Swift 6-18X 44 scope set at around 6x to 8x and try and take them right in `the boiler room'. However... Edsal Murphy being usually around it is usually the Daewoo DR-200 that gets the nod and the job.

I've tried in the past with my old Rem 788 in .222 and for some reason it just never seemed to quite be up to it. (I'm thinking about re-barreling it and chambering it for .221 Fireball to see if that will make any difference as it's a much easier to lug around gun than the Browning and should not damage those few good pelts that happen along. That and the fact that I could also carry my XP-100 and not have to lug along two different calibres of ammo? [Yeah... I *know* that I *could* just get another XP-100 in .223. {WAN GRIN!} But then I'd have to get SWMBO yet another new `toy', too! {CHORTLE!} She's already got all the sewing machines she wants and she hasn't found any new `artillery' that's `turned her crank' the last few gun shows we've been to. {GRIN!}])

------------------
Doleo ergo sum,
-HALFPINT-

[This message has been edited by Halfpint (edited February 28, 2000).]

Halfpint · February 28, 2000, 03:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bt148:
I am interested in cyote hunting and was wondering what calibers, out of the ones I own, would work the best.
Here are my options:
.300 mag out of a Remington 700

Sort of like using a cannon.

.308 out of a Remington model 70

A bit less `messy' and not too bad if you only have a fairly long distance shot.

.280 out of a Remington model 700

Now you're talking! With the appropriate bullet you possibly won't blow a big exit hole and can handle reasonable distanced shots.

12 & 20 gauge shotguns

Yeeesh! You'll probably kill it but you'll have a sieve for a pelt. Unless you are using slugs and then you'll probably have an exit hole you can drive a Buick through. {GRIN!}

.22lr out of a Ruger 10/22 or Ruger 22/45

Hmmmmm... Just how good of a shot are you? You'd have to be using Stingers or Mini Mag +Vs and get a *perfect* placement of your shot. Coyotes are pretty danged tough and even though there is no love lost between them and me I *still* like to grant them the dignity of a quick and fairly painless death.

.357sig/.40s&w out of a Sig 229

I dunno... I've got a Dan Wesson .357mag w/ a 10" barrel and while I have successfully used it for `coup de grace' shots *I* wouldn't want to depend upon it. And I know I wouldn't want to depend upon .40S&W for anything beyond 10yards/metres that could move like a coyote.

bt

PS
My son shot a cyote with the .308 while he was deer hunting. The .308 seemed to do a lot of damage to the dog.

Good for him! Gives the rest of the deer a chance so that they'll possibly be around next year.

[/quote]

------------------
Doleo ergo sum,
-HALFPINT-

[This message has been edited by Halfpint (edited February 28, 2000).]

February 15, 2000, 09:23 PM	#1
Bt148 Member Join Date: September 12, 1999 Posts: 28	I am interested in cyote hunting and was wondering what calibers, out of the ones I own, would work the best. Here are my options: .300 mag out of a Remington 700 .308 out of a Remington model 70 .280 out of a Remington model 700 12 & 20 gauge shotguns .22lr out of a Ruger 10/22 or Ruger 22/45 .357sig/.40s&w out of a Sig 229 bt PS My son shot a cyote with the .308 while he was deer hunting. The .308 seemed to do a lot of damage to the dog.

February 15, 2000, 10:07 PM	#2
Ankeny Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 1998 Location: Shoshoni, WY USA Posts: 556	Lately, I have been using a Polaris 700 RMK. Probably a bit heavy. Of your choices I'd use the rifle you like the best. None of them are really good for pelts.

February 15, 2000, 11:12 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Don't use the .22LR unless it's a dead gimme for a head shot. Not enough real oomph. A light bullet in the .280 looks like your best bet for a rifle. If your 12-gauge is full-choke, or you have the screw-in type and the tube, #2 or 0 buck or 00 buck will do. I'd limit myself to 35 or 40 yards, generally. Good forest/brush gun at those typically under 25-yard close ranges... I knew a Highway Patrol guy who used to call them up to his patrol car, and shoot them with his service revolver. FWIW, Art [This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited February 15, 2000).]

February 16, 2000, 08:36 PM	#4
MAD DOG Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona. Posts: 853	Use any of those center fires you like the best, assuming you are not after pelts. The .308 will have the best powder economy, and they kill yodel dogs well. The .280 would be my second choice of those listed. This is a bumper crop year for coyotes here, and the pelts are all terrible, so we are not nearly as concerned with the pelts as we are with thinning out the dogs. If you are after pelts, the small fast calibers are much better. You do not want those gourgeous smoking exit wounds on a pelt that you are going to try to sell. We used .17 Remington, .222, and .223 in Montana with great effect. No bullets heavier than 55 grains, always hollow points.

February 17, 2000, 05:06 PM	#5
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	223 with a 55 grain soft point will not ruin a pelt and the bullet will expand. Dr.Rob

February 17, 2000, 09:50 PM	#6
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	I'm for the .280 & .308 for what was listed. & I'd use FMJ bullets. Should shoot right through with minimal damage to pelt, unless you hit bone & all bets are off. Too, if you reload, you can push many bullets at way less than max & acheive the FMJ syndrome (no expansion) but you'll have to be a bit betetr at your range extimation as the trajectory will suffer some. 'Course, if you don't care about the pelts, that .300 should reach out pretty well.

February 18, 2000, 12:33 PM	#7
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Any opinions on the suitability of .303 for coyotes? I load .311" 125gr Speer JSP over 45gr of Reloder 15; turns squash into vapor. Seems to me this would be a good coyote round. ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

February 20, 2000, 05:52 PM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Coinneach: Oughta work fine. Quick kill, which is the main idea. Since you're not after a marketable hide, you're not concerned about a ripped pelt... Regards, Art

February 21, 2000, 10:30 AM	#9
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Well, I figure this question fits semi-well into this thread. What is the realistic range for coyotes on a .22 mag -- and should I go for a head shot or somewhere else? The rifle I shoot is a plain ole Marlin 882SS, but that little guy is easily capable of sub-MOA. So...what range and where to aim? Thanks fellas! Hueco Forgot to mention -- I would certainly be out with hollow-points. Normally I shoot 40 grains, but I could pick up some RWS 50 grainers if I need too. Thanks again! [This message has been edited by Hueco (edited February 21, 2000).]

February 21, 2000, 03:32 PM	#10
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Hueco: I'd generalize that inside of 50 or so yards, head, neck or heart. Over 50 yards, head or neck shots only... FWIW, Art

February 21, 2000, 03:59 PM	#11
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Thanks Mr. Eatman! I will try for the head should I ever get the chance. Hueco

February 21, 2000, 04:29 PM	#12
muleshoe Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2000 Location: Mills County, IA Posts: 410	I'm not a big fan of head shots. Oh yeah it's deadly enough when you place a bullet in the brain, trouble is your target is much smaller. Now the arguement can be made that you either kill it or miss it completely, but that's not always true. A shot in the jaw or snoot will not kill a coyote or deer right off. More than likely the critter will die a few days later from starvation or infection. I'm no big fan of coyotes and shoot everyone I get a decent shot at, but I don't want to have them crawling off and dying a prolonged death. A shot placed in the vital zone I feel is the best way to go. Broadside or from the front works about the same. As far as the original question goes, if your not worried about pelt damage any of them will work. If your saving pelts I'd cut out the .300, .308, and .280, don't know how the pistol rds. will work. I've killed a lot of coyotes with a 20ga. loaded with #3buck out to about 40 yards using a call. Killed lots with stingers from a .22 also. MAD DOG mentioned the .17 rem., .222, and .223, all great varmint calibers without much pelt damage. Probably the best being the .17 rem., it rarely exits and turns their inards to mush. I'd also throw in a 22-250 and 220 swift as great varmint rounds. ------------------ bullet placement is gun control

February 21, 2000, 08:32 PM	#13
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I dunno about shooting for the only spot that is wrapped completely in protective bone, i.e., the head. Accuracy may not be enough and I never did have much luck in the trick shootin' department. Dr. Rob's .223 and Muleshoe's .222, .223, .22-250, the Swift and .17 have my vote. Where? A four footed mammal. In the lungs. A little higher, the heart. Even a pest deserves a clean kill. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 21, 2000).]

February 21, 2000, 10:24 PM	#14
Bt148 Member Join Date: September 12, 1999 Posts: 28	Thanks a lot for all the replies! From what I hear so far, I think that for closer shots that I'll probally go with the .22 out of my 10/22 and for the longer shots I'll use the .280. I'll be using the smaller calibers because I sorta want to keep the pelts, but not sell them. I keep on hearing about the .17 rem. What's so great about this cartrige? It seems like shooting a pelet from a bb gun at extremely high speeds. What kind of ballistics does the .17 rem produce? How much powder is pushing that little bullet? bt

February 22, 2000, 08:23 PM	#15
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Hornady, 3rd Ed, Copywright 1980, ninth printing 1989. .17 Remington is very close to a .223 necked down to take a .172 bullet. Hornady only shows one bullet: 25 gr hollow point. Sect dens: .121. BC: .190. All loads are fired from a Rem Model 700, 24 in barrel, 1:10 twist. Rem brass and primers (sm rifle). This little beauty STARTS at 3600 fps for all loads in this manual. 3900 fps is the most common max velocity (4100 fps for one load). Powders are IMR4198, RL7, IMR3031, BL-C2, W748, N203, IMR4064, IMR4895, H380, IMR4320, W760 and N204. From 17 grains all the way up to 28 grains. Looks like a pretty tolerant cartridge design. The manual said that Hornady is the only bullet mfr still making the .172 bullet. They recommend the IMR 4320. 3900 fps! Whooo! That's a quick BB! With a 200 yd zero at 3900 fps, starting at -1.5" at the muzzle, 1st zero at 50 yds, +0.9 at 100, +0.9 at 150, 2nd zero at 200, -2.0 at 250 and -5.5 at 300 yds. Peak of vertical rise is at 125 yds in this case. My guess is about 1.2" at 125 yds A lot of cartridges shoot flatter. But, by all accounts ... no pelt damage. I never was curious enough or wealthy enough to spend big dollars on a specialized rifle/cartridge like this one. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 22, 2000).]

February 28, 2000, 02:45 AM	#16
Halfpint Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: About to be gobbled up by "The People's Republic of Firestone"! Posts: 224	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sensop: Hornady, 3rd Ed, Copywright 1980, ninth printing 1989. .17 Remington is very close to a .223 necked down to take a .172 bullet. Hornady only shows one bullet: 25 gr hollow point. Sect dens: .121. BC: .190. All loads are fired from a Rem Model 700, 24 in barrel, 1:10 twist. Rem brass and primers (sm rifle). This little beauty STARTS at 3600 fps for all loads in this manual. 3900 fps is the most common max velocity (4100 fps for one load). Powders are IMR4198, RL7, IMR3031, BL-C2, W748, N203, IMR4064, IMR4895, H380, IMR4320, W760 and N204. From 17 grains all the way up to 28 grains. Looks like a pretty tolerant cartridge design. The manual said that Hornady is the only bullet mfr still making the .172 bullet. They recommend the IMR 4320. 3900 fps! Whooo! That's a quick BB! With a 200 yd zero at 3900 fps, starting at -1.5" at the muzzle, 1st zero at 50 yds, +0.9 at 100, +0.9 at 150, 2nd zero at 200, -2.0 at 250 and -5.5 at 300 yds. Peak of vertical rise is at 125 yds in this case. My guess is about 1.2" at 125 yds A lot of cartridges shoot flatter. But, by all accounts ... no pelt damage. I never was curious enough or wealthy enough to spend big dollars on a specialized rifle/cartridge like this one. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 22, 2000).][/quote] Yep! One quick BB! But! It has one drawback. You've got to clean the danged thing around every 5th or 6th shot! (And I don't mean just pushing a few patches through it. I mean scrub, scrub, scrub!) A friend of mine has one and every time we go out to thin out the `pasture poodles' here on our farm he spends more time cleaning than he does shooting. For coyotes I prefer .223 in a good semi-auto with a simple 4x or so scope so that just in case I have to snap off a second shot I can do it quickly. If I have the luxury of being able to set up where I can be where I am not right where they are possibly coming through I'll use my Browning `Varminter' in .223 with my Swift 6-18X 44 scope set at around 6x to 8x and try and take them right in `the boiler room'. However... Edsal Murphy being usually around it is usually the Daewoo DR-200 that gets the nod and the job. I've tried in the past with my old Rem 788 in .222 and for some reason it just never seemed to quite be up to it. (I'm thinking about re-barreling it and chambering it for .221 Fireball to see if that will make any difference as it's a much easier to lug around gun than the Browning and should not damage those few good pelts that happen along. That and the fact that I could also carry my XP-100 and not have to lug along two different calibres of ammo? [Yeah... I know that I could just get another XP-100 in .223. {WAN GRIN!} But then I'd have to get SWMBO yet another new `toy', too! {CHORTLE!} She's already got all the sewing machines she wants and she hasn't found any new `artillery' that's `turned her crank' the last few gun shows we've been to. {GRIN!}]) ------------------ Doleo ergo sum, -HALFPINT- [This message has been edited by Halfpint (edited February 28, 2000).]

February 28, 2000, 03:11 AM	#17
Halfpint Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: About to be gobbled up by "The People's Republic of Firestone"! Posts: 224	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bt148: I am interested in cyote hunting and was wondering what calibers, out of the ones I own, would work the best. Here are my options: .300 mag out of a Remington 700 Sort of like using a cannon. .308 out of a Remington model 70 A bit less `messy' and not too bad if you only have a fairly long distance shot. .280 out of a Remington model 700 Now you're talking! With the appropriate bullet you possibly won't blow a big exit hole and can handle reasonable distanced shots. 12 & 20 gauge shotguns Yeeesh! You'll probably kill it but you'll have a sieve for a pelt. Unless you are using slugs and then you'll probably have an exit hole you can drive a Buick through. {GRIN!} .22lr out of a Ruger 10/22 or Ruger 22/45 Hmmmmm... Just how good of a shot are you? You'd have to be using Stingers or Mini Mag +Vs and get a perfect placement of your shot. Coyotes are pretty danged tough and even though there is no love lost between them and me I still like to grant them the dignity of a quick and fairly painless death. .357sig/.40s&w out of a Sig 229 I dunno... I've got a Dan Wesson .357mag w/ a 10" barrel and while I have successfully used it for `coup de grace' shots I wouldn't want to depend upon it. And I know I wouldn't want to depend upon .40S&W for anything beyond 10yards/metres that could move like a coyote. bt PS My son shot a cyote with the .308 while he was deer hunting. The .308 seemed to do a lot of damage to the dog. Good for him! Gives the rest of the deer a chance so that they'll possibly be around next year. [/quote] ------------------ Doleo ergo sum, -HALFPINT- [This message has been edited by Halfpint (edited February 28, 2000).]