OK, what dog breed meets all these criteria for both hunter and pet?

[Hello123]

What about a Chessie? Retrieve all day long, hard headed, will chew your head off if you try anything.

[FirstFreedom]

Well, retreivers are awesome, be they chesapeake, flat-coated, labs, or goldens, and are some of my and others' favorite breeds, for good reason. And from the right breeders, all can be had with good hunting abilities. But as I said, I'm looking for something that has a bit of a harder edge on the protective side of things. And, one that is extremely versatile, being able to be taught to point, retrieve, track, etc. But I dunno - tell me about chessies....do you believe they're known to have a better protective instinct than their retriever cousins (lab, golden, flat-coated)? I'm thinking right now that the Vizsla, Weimerainer, or possibly a GSP is the way to go.

[JackHurst99]

German Shorthaired Pointer

["yote"]

Lets not forget the "hunting bred" Oorang Airdale. I have one named Loki.
He runs about 80lbs. He will hunt Pheseant right along side my Chocolate lab
Chuck. He also likes to run down coyotes and dig up badgers!

[STLRN]

Wiemees are great dogs, but be prepare for a life companion, there is a reason they are know as velcro dogs. They always want to be around their master.

[too many choices!?]

He loved the water and outdoors....and was a great retriever

PS it was even the salty stuff near Galveston, he didn't care

[Hello123]

I would suspect that a chessie would be a good choice. They are truly tough, rugged, big dogs with a ferocious retreiving drive. They also have the tendency to be gaurdians, which is almost unique among retrievers. I have encountered two owners of chessies that the dog would not let any strangers near the truck. one of the two wouldnt let the owner near. they have a coarser nature than the lab. the reasons why you would want a chessie arethe exact reason i would not. no biting for me.

[VirgilCaine]

German Shorthaired Pointer

The best of the best. Study the litter and pick an Alpha male. Once he figures out that you're in charge, you will have one huntin' ,loyal, protecting fool on yer hands. They love their home and families and can dispatch anything from a coyote to a BG. They will point birds at 10 weeks and retrieve at 14 weeks.

can ya tell i have one!

good luck, most of the breeds mentioned are good choices.

[FirstFreedom]

Wiemees are great dogs, but be prepare for a life companion, there is a reason they are know as velcro dogs. They always want to be around their master.

I'm down with that - so much the better. Thanks again all - I will seriously consider a GSP - they are beautiful as well as talented. The large and small Muensterlanders are REALLY pretty - but alas, I'm sold on short-hair for a house pet / all-purpose dog.

[Rich Lucibella]

You guys make me nuts. Put my Aussie down after 15 years in 2003. Now you come up with this thread.....well, you convinced me (sorta).

Just put a deposit down on a Catahoula. (I hunt lots more pigs than birds).
Rich

[1BadF350]

Rich I wouldn't get that one...someone spilled ink all over him.

[The Body Bagger]

Another vote for Weimeraners. They are the all around hunting dog. Labs and Retreivers are great dogs as well but for a gun dog and protection nothing beats the Wiemeraners. That is exactly what they were bred for. They can be a little noisy and have energy in abundance but if you're an active person looking for a great companion as well a steadfast protector the Weimers are hard to overlook. What dog do I have? I have a Doberman Pinscher . Great sight hunting dog, fast, friendly, and protective.

[FirstFreedom]

I too like Dobermanns and Belgain Malinoises as favorites for guarding the homestead, but I can only have so many, so I'm looking for an all-purpose dog. Rich, you've GOT to replace your companion. A Catahoula sounds good.

[Rich Lucibella]

Originally Posted by 1BadF350

Rich I wouldn't get that one...someone spilled ink all over him.

Oh, that's cold Cowboy! (Not mine though).

This breed reminds me of Aussies 20 years ago, before the AKC "recognized" and ruined 'em. The variations in coloring caused them not to even be recognized as a "breed". Hell, I didn't even know mine WAS an Aussie Shepherd until a trip out west. With the puppy mills that have sprung up, Aussies are being bred into genetically engineered, walking cripples. We did it to German Sheps; we did it to Dobies.

Catahoulas, though....they still seem to be pretty much overlooked and the best breeders are staunchly Anti-AKC. Variations in markings are extraordinary.
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/ca...a-leopard.html
Rich

[FirstFreedom]

Good for them...the AKC is a veritable joke. The ONLY criteria for AKC registration is that the parents were AKC registered (and pay their fee, of course). There is *nothing whatsoever* examining/testing:

-health
-temperament
-working ability

in any way, shape, or form. Nor is there any examination of the sacred "conformation". Don't even get me started about the AKC and "conformation" to the physical breed standard as the primary breeding goal. Yap, the puppy mills have ruined MANY breeds over the years. Cocker spaniels used have a good retrieving ability. The list goes on and on...

[armedandsafe]

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I used to breed, train and hunt standard poodles. I learned of the dog's versality while on station in France. I used them as water dogs, pointers, and hounds. My stud, Cyrano, was 95 lbs of coyote killing hound. He loved to sleep on the floor beside my daughter's play pen, with her pulling on his ears.

I remember being awakened one morning by my host in Verdun, and going into the kitchen to see his standard poodle on guard in the middle of the floor, There was an intruder cowering in the corner, under the watchful eye of the guard dog. We had hunted with that dog the day before.

Although the Poodle has been known throughout Western Europe for at least 400 years, its origin is controversial. Whether it was developed in France, Germany, Denmark, or the ancient Piedmont, is uncertain. Despite the claims of several other countries, France has now been officially recognized as its country of origin, and the breed occupies a special place on the affections of the French. It is certain that the Poodle is descended from a now nearly extinct French water dog, the Barbet and possibly the Hungarian Water Hound. The name "Poodle" probably derives from the German word "Pudel," which means one who plays in water. The Poodle was used as a gun dog. Originally the breed was used in Germany and France as a retriever of waterfowl. Hunters clipped the dog's thick coat to help him swim, leaving hair on the leg joints to protect them from extreme cold and sharp reeds. The French capitalized on the breeds high intelligence, trainability and innate showmanship and made the Poodle into a circus performer. His great popularity in that country led to the breeds common name "French Poodle." In France, however, the Poodle is called the "Caniche," or duck dog

http://www.vipoodle.org/WPindex.htm
http://www.rescueeverydog.org/poodle_breed.html
http://www.versatiledogs.com/breeds/poodle.html

Pops

[perception]

You know, Ive wanted a catahoula for a while now. I dont currently live where I can have one though, so I think it will just be added to the list.

[Long Path]

Rich, it breaks my heart to hear that the Aussie breed has been ruined-- it was once one of (if not the) single most useful and intelligent breeds ever, IMHO. Brave, quick, excellent instincts, and wonderfully emotive. For about 9 months I owned an Australian Shepard/doberman mix that was possibly the smartest dog I ever knew, utterly untrained. (His former owner, who had given him to me, came back for him. I couldn't blame him, and let him have it back.)

[Rich Lucibella]

Matt-
I'm certain there are still good working stock Aussies if you head out to cattle country. But, once they became "recognized" as a purebreed and AKC got their hands on 'em, they became an overnight sensation. Now everybody just has to have one.

Puppy Mills: The rate of deafness, blindness and hip dysplasia is just soaring. Catahoula's seem to suffer from the same deficits: there's a Merle gene, which when crossed produces many of these problems.

And, as to all breeds: we no longer "cull" the way we used to. Catahoula breeders in LA were notoriously cold-blooded about this right up until (and in some cases including) today. It's a philosophic argument that I'm glad I don't have to partake....do you kill weak puppies in the interests of preserving the breed?
Rich

[DR_MAX]

FF:

Geesh! You sure want a lot for your dime. Dogs are individuals, just like people. So, on an individual basis, many different breeds may potentially have the "perfect dog." If you find one - please let me know. I'd like to be your Hollywood agent.
OK, all kidding aside: If you start trying this or that breed expecting the dog to do this or be that, you are probably going to have a lot of disappointments, as well as a lot of dogs that get taken to the shelter. As a lot of people already know, I'm more of a cat person; but I do have a dog that I am absolutely daffy about. Not because of what he can do, but just because he is who he is. He's a pitbull terrier I rescued from a fighting ring when I was the shelter Vet. I'm not suggesting you get a pitbull (although you could certainly do worse), but I am suggesting that you keep an open mind, and make a few trips to the shelter to look at adult dogs (WYSIWYG).
There's a good chance you'll find a companion there that makes you wonder what you ever did without them.
Good hunting

[USP45usp]

Rich,

Interesting read, thank you. The catahoula sounds like a dog that I would love to have but I don't have the time or the land for him or her to run and play .

Pops,

Actually, before people started to "sissyfy" the poodle, it was an extrodinary(sp) hunting dog. Then someone got the bright idea to shave off hair and sissyfy it :barf: . But, all in all a poodle really isn't a bad dog (and I was when Boortz kept on referring to Kerry as a poodle, the poor dogs don't deserve that type of disrespect! (to all the Kerry folks, the means I'm joking)).

Wayne

[armedandsafe]

Actually, the poodle clip is functional. The big mane on the chest protects from brush, ice and fighting critters. The puffs on the ankles protect where blood runs close to the surface. Smooth on the sides so they don't waterlog so badly on a long day.The puff on the tail is so you can see them point in wheat stubble (they point with tail straight up.) and, the topknot on the head is for the silk bow, so you can convince the SO that the dog is worth the money.

Pops

[49hudson]

My Sister has a giant airdale, 95 t0 105 #. Very protective of the house and yard.
I have seen it on natural point on birds , but it has never had any training.
They were bred as retrievers.
Very friendly to small children.
Need to be clipped about twice a year, no big deal.A little high strung, but with proper training I don't think this would be a problem.
She just uses it a a guard and at this it does an excellent job!

[USP45usp]

Pops:

Actually, the poodle clip is functional. The big mane on the chest protects from brush, ice and fighting critters. The puffs on the ankles protect where blood runs close to the surface. Smooth on the sides so they don't waterlog so badly on a long day.The puff on the tail is so you can see them point in wheat stubble (they point with tail straight up.)

Wow, you learn something every day .

Wayne

[Hello123]

I had forgotten about the standard poodle, the german hunting dog brought by gypies to France because of their trainability/use in shows. They hunt well, one of the smartest dogs, and protect well.