Longbranch No.4 Mk1* ??

dbergstrom · August 22, 2008, 02:44 PM

I was at the Gun Shop this morning and they just got a Consignment rifle in, as mentioned, it's marked Longbranch No.4 Mk.1* 1945, S.N. 87LXXXX, with small letters ENG/UK on the left side.

All is good so far, the strange thing is the configuration is that of a No. 5 Jungle Carbine, but the front handguard strap is standard No.4 Mk.1.

Anyone aware of this configuration? I want to buy it as it's in great shape but they think it a rare piece and don't know how to price it.

Is this a fake, re-build or a rarity?

wjkuleck · August 22, 2008, 03:51 PM

It's a, well, fake?

You really can't "fake" something that never was.

Importers such as Navy Arms cut down No 4s and No IIIs to No 5 barrel length, adding the recoil pad and flash hider. Sounds like you're looking at one of those. The parts have been available (in repro form) for home conversions, too.

No 5s are No 5s, and never the No 4s shall meet.

What's it worth? A large fraction of the "equivalent" No 4 Mk 1*, perhaps 50%-75%. It's as rare as a three-dollar bill, and just as valuable to a collector (try spending a three-dollar bill sometime

).

Regards,

Walt

Tom2 · August 22, 2008, 04:38 PM

If the bore and the finish are nice, you still will be able to sell it as a shooter to someone that does not want to pay the ticket for a genuine jungle carbine I suppose. Not worthless or something, lot of people like the SMLE in any configuration. Just not as much as an untouched one in nice condition. But probably worth more than some of the brown beater No. 4 rifles depending on condx. See if you can find reference to the prices that Navy and the other places doing the mods, were asking.

dbergstrom · August 22, 2008, 07:21 PM

Thanks guy's, that what I thought, It'll be nice to have something to show the shop owner, he could not find anything on the rifle either.

tplumeri · August 22, 2008, 07:34 PM

I'm thinking I have the same rifle. Longbranch 1945. the * after Mk1 designates a "factory" update, usually a Mk2 trigger assembly.
these guns were "sporterized" by a few different outfits, usually had the front grip stock shortened and any number of front sites installed.
the sporteized guns arent collectibles but are usually very good shooters.
the originals had a flip up rear site with adjustments out to 1300 yards.
alot of inexpensive Milsurp ammo still available, but some use corrosive primers.
PRVI makes new 303 at a fair price.

like Walt said, real No5's are rare and very pricey.
tom

dbergstrom · August 22, 2008, 08:05 PM

Thanks Tom,

I think I'll go ahead and pick it up, I have another one in excellent condition, marked "Santa Fe Division of golden State Arms Corporation" Model 1943 Standard.

This was a Re-manufactured rifle in the No. 5 configuration as well, a number of copies in very good condition can't hurt a well rounded collection can it?

James K · August 22, 2008, 11:13 PM

The "ENG/UK" or "ENGLAND" marking is the old (pre-1968) import mark which required only the country of origin. It is a mistake, of course, as the rifle was made in Canada, but many No. 4 rifles were mismarked in those days, including Savage-made rifles which didn't need to be marked at all, being of U.S. origin.

Jim

Tom2 · August 23, 2008, 06:49 AM

Well I was just sayin, if you are a milsurp collector with bucks, you would maybe not want a made-up repro in your "perfect" collection along with some rarities, but if you like the SMLE and shoot them, and want to experience what shooting a 5 is like, but don't have the large sum to buy a genuine one right now, you could get enjoyment out of shooting it. Well, except for the report that they have a nice blast and kick harder than a full sized rifle....

tplumeri · August 23, 2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

kick harder than a full sized rifle....

tom is right about that!
the brass butt plate put a beating on my shoulder!

T. O'Heir · September 8, 2008, 01:45 PM

Bubba'd No.4 Rifle. Canadian Arsenals - Longbranch Plant didn't make any No. 5 rifles. Get proof of good headspace.

tplumeri · September 8, 2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Bubba'd No.4 Rifle. Canadian Arsenals - Longbranch

yep, but we prefer "sporterized" instead of bubba'd!

August 22, 2008, 02:44 PM	#1
dbergstrom Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 4	*Longbranch No.4 Mk1 ??** I was at the Gun Shop this morning and they just got a Consignment rifle in, as mentioned, it's marked Longbranch No.4 Mk.1* 1945, S.N. 87LXXXX, with small letters ENG/UK on the left side. All is good so far, the strange thing is the configuration is that of a No. 5 Jungle Carbine, but the front handguard strap is standard No.4 Mk.1. Anyone aware of this configuration? I want to buy it as it's in great shape but they think it a rare piece and don't know how to price it. Is this a fake, re-build or a rarity?

August 22, 2008, 03:51 PM	#2
wjkuleck Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,220	It's a, well, fake? You really can't "fake" something that never was. Importers such as Navy Arms cut down No 4s and No IIIs to No 5 barrel length, adding the recoil pad and flash hider. Sounds like you're looking at one of those. The parts have been available (in repro form) for home conversions, too. No 5s are No 5s, and never the No 4s shall meet. What's it worth? A large fraction of the "equivalent" No 4 Mk 1, perhaps 50%-75%. It's as rare as a three-dollar bill, and just as valuable to a collector (try spending a three-dollar bill sometime ). Regards, Walt __________________ Author, NEW! The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide The M14 and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide The AR-15 Complete Assembly and (New 4th Edition) Owner's Guides*

August 22, 2008, 04:38 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	If the bore and the finish are nice, you still will be able to sell it as a shooter to someone that does not want to pay the ticket for a genuine jungle carbine I suppose. Not worthless or something, lot of people like the SMLE in any configuration. Just not as much as an untouched one in nice condition. But probably worth more than some of the brown beater No. 4 rifles depending on condx. See if you can find reference to the prices that Navy and the other places doing the mods, were asking. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

August 23, 2008, 06:49 AM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Well I was just sayin, if you are a milsurp collector with bucks, you would maybe not want a made-up repro in your "perfect" collection along with some rarities, but if you like the SMLE and shoot them, and want to experience what shooting a 5 is like, but don't have the large sum to buy a genuine one right now, you could get enjoyment out of shooting it. Well, except for the report that they have a nice blast and kick harder than a full sized rifle.... __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

September 8, 2008, 01:45 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Bubba'd No.4 Rifle. Canadian Arsenals - Longbranch Plant didn't make any No. 5 rifles. Get proof of good headspace. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 22, 2008, 07:21 PM	#4
dbergstrom Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 4	Thanks guy's, that what I thought, It'll be nice to have something to show the shop owner, he could not find anything on the rifle either.

August 22, 2008, 07:34 PM	#5
tplumeri Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Posts: 1,919	I'm thinking I have the same rifle. Longbranch 1945. the * after Mk1 designates a "factory" update, usually a Mk2 trigger assembly. these guns were "sporterized" by a few different outfits, usually had the front grip stock shortened and any number of front sites installed. the sporteized guns arent collectibles but are usually very good shooters. the originals had a flip up rear site with adjustments out to 1300 yards. alot of inexpensive Milsurp ammo still available, but some use corrosive primers. PRVI makes new 303 at a fair price. like Walt said, real No5's are rare and very pricey. tom

August 22, 2008, 08:05 PM	#6
dbergstrom Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 4	Thanks Tom, I think I'll go ahead and pick it up, I have another one in excellent condition, marked "Santa Fe Division of golden State Arms Corporation" Model 1943 Standard. This was a Re-manufactured rifle in the No. 5 configuration as well, a number of copies in very good condition can't hurt a well rounded collection can it?

August 22, 2008, 11:13 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The "ENG/UK" or "ENGLAND" marking is the old (pre-1968) import mark which required only the country of origin. It is a mistake, of course, as the rifle was made in Canada, but many No. 4 rifles were mismarked in those days, including Savage-made rifles which didn't need to be marked at all, being of U.S. origin. Jim