30-30 issue

[shooterbob]

I haven't loaded a lot of cannelure bullets and was playing with some 30-30 that need to be crimped. I got this on testing the seating depth and crimping. I've crimped large rounds and some 270's but have never experienced this before. Depth is showing to be spot on on the cannelure , but got this double collapse. Lube was Hornady wax that I've never used before, so I'm leaning in this direction as the cause.

[shooterbob]

Ok after more checking, its the crimp in the die. I can seat fine and as soon as I went a little farther I get a neck collapse. Someone pick my brain off the floor and.kick start me into thinking lol

[Reloader2]

Did you back off on the seater plug when you attempted to crimp the case?

[jersurf101]

I did this in .270. I has the die screwed in too far. Too short for the case and it has no where to go and buckles.

[Clark]

That case neck looks like my socks.

[chiefr]

Seating bullet too far in and over crimping.

[jimbob86]

The .30/30 case is especially prone to this- it's thinner than many other bottlenecked cases.

To prevent this, make sure all cases are trimmed to a uniform length, and crimp as a separate operation from seating, either with a crimp die, or with the seater plug backed out so it does not contact the bullet.

[shooterbob]

Yea I've always used a separate crimper, and always Dillon. These are Hornady seat/crimp and I decided to use them. I don't like them as much. All of the cases have been trimmed uniform and I backed the seater out until the cannelure was in line. It seems that the crimp must be done very lightly after the seating...if a full pull is done, it crumples the shoulder. I did not back of the seater before crimping, I will try that before going back to my Dillon dies.

[44 AMP]

All cases the same length. Seat a bullet so the case mouth is centered in the bullet cannelure. Back the die up a couple turns, and the seating stem also.

Ram at full extension, screw in the die until you can feel the crimp shoulder contact the case (bullet seating stem backed away, touching nothing)

Lower the ram slightly, and turn the die down, a fraction of a turn, run the round in, and crimp. Repeat until desired crimp is obtained. Lock die body in place. Run the ram up, and screw the seating plug down, until it makes solid contact with the bullet. Give it a tiny fraction more turn and lock in place.

Your die is now adjusted to seat, and crimp at the same time.

This works for all roll crimped rounds with "regular" seating dies (RCBS, Lyman, etc.)

This will not work with a seating die that has a separate crimp die in the set.

[Salmoneye]

Till you get the hang of 44 AMP's method, simply seat and crimp in two steps...

[mikld]

Till you get the hang of 44 AMP's method, simply seat and crimp in two steps...

Yep, I have been reloading a lot of years and always set my seating and crimping in two steps. What happens is the bullet is still moving into the case when the crimp tightens and more pressure will be on the case rarher than the bullet and "collapse" the case neck...

[totaldla]

And that is a great example why I use the Lee FCD nowadays - no more fiddling.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Wow!! You have perhaps allot of issues going on. Trim length, bullet seating depth, amount of crimp used, perhaps shoulder set back in your shells resizing. Nothing that can't be resolved though. Three suggestions for the time being.

1._Don't use Remington brass for the time being. Consider using Winchester or Federal as they are less prone to collapse as is Hornady's Frontier brand brass also.

2._Take your F.L. Resizing die. Loosen its lock ring and screw it up onto the dies body higher than usual. Here how adjust your Resizing die to its press:
When the ram is at the very upward peak of its stroke. At that very utmost highest lift point position. Screw your Resizing die clockwise (down) so to have it (lightly touching) its shellholder.
From that very peak ram point with its shell holder touching. Back the unlocked die body itself (up) off its shell holder a 1/4 turn (counter clock/ wise.). Release your ram from its upwards travel. Then hold your die so it doesn't move while screwing its loosened lock ring down to the top of the press. Lightly sung up its lock-ring screw so to stiffen its resistance to its die body turning movement. (do not overly tighten its lock ring down just yet.) Now unscrew your entire Die body some counter clockwise again to allow for its lock-ring to be fully hard tightening above the press itself.

Tip: You have to be absolutely sure the ram is at its very upward peak of its stroke by observing its movement. Do not assume by its down handle position the ram is at its peak point of lift. It is not.

Your resizing die has just been set correctly to its press. Screw your die down to the top of the press for one last look see at its shellholders off set. If you notice a very slight separation between your die and its shellholder. Your good to go.


3._After your shells have been F.L. Resize. Trim all your brass to its Minimum Suggested Length which is measured with a caliper: 2.450. is the figure your wanting.

Here how its done: Use one shell as a guide. Lightly trim a little. Measure. Trim some more. Re-measure. Trim some more. Keep re-measuring quite often as your shell is being trimmed to make sure you don't over trim. Do not use that shell as a reload. Save it for future references and also to set up your trimmers cutting reach. Now at the point you have your shells all trimmed to one length. Time to Chamfer & Deburr their mouth openings. Inside a little and outside a little. A turn or two is all that required with one of these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789...-to-45-caliber

[44 AMP]

Till you get the hang of 44 AMP's method, simply seat and crimp in two steps...

Yep, I have been reloading a lot of years and always set my seating and crimping in two steps. What happens is the bullet is still moving into the case when the crimp tightens and more pressure will be on the case rarher than the bullet and "collapse" the case neck...

My method works, but there is a little bit of "feel" that comes from experience. Mostly in just how much crimp you want (die body setting), and then getting the seating stem just right.

What happens is the bullet is still moving into the case when the crimp tightens and more pressure will be on the case rarher than the bullet and "collapse" the case neck...

This isn't what happens when the die is set right. The bullet stops when it contacts the seating stem. The last bit of ram movement pushes the case up around the bullet. With the crimp shoulder of the die set at the right height, it simply bends the case mouth into the crimp groove on the bullet when the ram reaches full extension.

If the case mouth is not lined up with the crimp groove, when it contacts the crimp shoulder of the die, then you get the buckled necks. This is always a matter of adjustment, between the die body, seating stem, and case length.

And its not a matter of case length being "in spec". ITs a matter of the fit (adjustment)m between what ever case length you have, and the die & bullet being used.

This is where case length uniformity comes in. You can adjust your die to do a correct crimp on any length case. But when a different length case is loaded, you will have either too much, or not enough crimp. (too much buckles the neck, same as "enough" in the wrong place)

Now, with all this said (and some not said), I do often seat and crimp in two different steps. And always when I'm loading something that is taper crimped.

[Strafer Gott]

It's hard to over emphasize that uniform case length point.

[Mike / Tx]

All cases the same length. Seat a bullet so the case mouth is centered in the bullet cannelure. Back the die up a couple turns, and the seating stem also.

Ram at full extension, screw in the die until you can feel the crimp shoulder contact the case (bullet seating stem backed away, touching nothing)

Lower the ram slightly, and turn the die down, a fraction of a turn, run the round in, and crimp. Repeat until desired crimp is obtained. Lock die body in place. Run the ram up, and screw the seating plug down, until it makes solid contact with the bullet. Give it a tiny fraction more turn and lock in place.

THis is how I was tought to do it many years ago, and I still do so today. I hardly, if ever, seat and crimp in seperate steps.

You do this with a dummy round so if by chance you flub it up you don't have to pull a loaded round apart. Then when your done and everything is set like you want it, you have a test round to reset the die later on. Toss it in the die box until later.

So I know what is what, I also use a sharpie and write the bullet type/weight, and/or brand, on the side of the case and then add a piece of scotch tape across it. This keeps things from rubbing off. Some dies will allow this some won't. For those that won't I just use the sharpie.

Of course you may or may not load as many different bullets for your different firearms as I do/did. It does however help to keep things in the brain some 3-5yrs on down the road when you decide to revisit something you have loaded before with a new powder.

[totaldla]

You don't need uniform trim length to get a good crimp with the Lee FCD.