luger p08

fubsy · September 9, 2002, 08:36 PM

I need an idea of the price of a luger p08....it has a 4 digit serial nbr 46xx, 4" barrel, plastic grips, and original magazine marked p08, it has a mark which is a v with three horizontal stripes threw it and a lightly hit version of the same mark immediately beside it, makes me think that the first strike wasnt acceptable and they struck the mark again, it also has the swastika beside those marks. All of the parts that are marked have what appear to be numbers that correspond to the last two digits of the serial number. there is the number 42 on the top of the reciver and the letters byf on the latch on the top.......I believe that is the mauser designation and the 42 is the year of manufactuer.....the pistol in appearance would grade out in the low to high 90's, there is a small portion of the barrel with a mild rusting, very mild and very small. This pistol belongs to a friend who would like to sell it. I have a limited knowledge of these firearms.....so any opinions would help, I would like to see him get a good value for this pistol. This pistol was a ww2 bring back, he picked it off of the officer after joining up with Gen. Pattons' crew at the battle of the bulge, he has had it ever since.
There is also a winchester mdl 97 in pretty good shape, would I be better off offering this to the cowboy action shooters? it shows some blueing wear, but nothing out of the ordinary... whats a price range on these?
thankyou ...fubsy.

Walt Sherrill · September 10, 2002, 07:50 AM

You just can't tell with Lugers. And there's no way you can get the proper feedback you need from written descriptions. You need someone who KNOWS these guns to look at it.

( There are so many shysters out selling them as authentic, when they aren't, that its risky -- unless you're buying it as a shooter. And even that could be risky, IF it truly is a pristine as you say...)

The mags were generally serial-numbered, I think, and not stamped with a model number. (All of the authentic ones I've had showed a serial number that should match the SN on the frame.) The Waffenampt {acceptance marks} you mention sound authentic.

I recently sold a very similar Luger for $1100 -- [less dealer's commission]. I have a very nice shooter that I'd sell for $450.

An aside: I don't believe there were enough officers in the German Army to account for all of the "captured from an officer" Lugers floating around. Not to mention the "nickel plated, captured from and officer" models, either. (According to the experts, the Germans NEVER issued nickel-plated guns; all such guns have been "tweaked" by subsequent owners.)

Your absolute best bet is to take it to a gun shop that specializes in collectibles. (I used Cherry's in Greensboro, NC -- http://www.cherrys.com ).

Or you can offer the seller $600 and tell him its probably worth more...

Cap n ball · September 10, 2002, 02:41 PM

byf is an ordnance code assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. The 'v' should be a script letter. I don't know what the three lines mean. The mag should have wooden knobs if it's an old one. The newer ones were plastic or metal but all types were made during the war. Many Lugers were assembled from stock parts during the final years of the war. If all the numbers match then chances are it was assembled in one of the three places that had the dies and machinery to make the PO8. All Lugers come from one of three sets of such. There were never any others but during the waning years of the Nazis, guns and weapons of all sorts were assembled wherever they could be and almost any combination is possible.

I would send some photos to Ralph Shattuck in Arizona and get his evaluation. He is an expert on this gun and will be fair in his estimation. The PO8 is a really beautiful sidearm and a fine example of German ingenuity. Those guns were built like watches which is one reason that they were prone to having problems in the extremely dirty battlefield conditions where they were used and were replaced by the simpler yet far more field-worthy Walther. I have one of WWI vintage and wouldn't sell it ever. Below is Mr. Shattuck's site URL.

http://www.worldoflugers.com/index.htm

BigG · September 10, 2002, 03:02 PM

All P08s had 4 digit serial #s, actually with a letter so one alpha and 4 digits that would start over with the next letter 10,000 units later. The letter is usually in cursive so it may look to the casual eye like a scratch while the numbers are bolder in appearance. Every 260,000 units you would have P08s duplicating older guns serial #s. This was done to keep the allies in the dark about Germany rearming in contravention of Versailles Treaty, IIRC.

It sounds like a wartime Mauserwerke P08 that should have the aluminum knob on magazine.

If it is in original condition, it would be a nice keeper but most I've seen are refinished and are really shooter grade.

This one could be a relic brought back in some GI's duffle bag. Hope you find out the scoop and let us know.

fubsy · September 10, 2002, 03:24 PM

Id like to thank all of you for the links and the information..... I know the man who owns this pistol and he is not prone to shoot the bull.......the pistol is as good as Im saying, the magazine does have metal knobs on the bottom........I dont particularly want this pistol, I just dont want him taken by a savvy buyer.....I dont recall any cursive script near the serial nbr, but I will look again......it is a beautiful piece though......fubsy.

James K · September 11, 2002, 09:35 PM

The full serial number is on the front above the trigger guard; it will be 1-4 digits and (usually) a script letter. The "V"'s with lines sound like the German inspector stamps, one for the receiver and one for the gun. The larger eagle and swastika is the combined proof mark and acceptance stamp.

The "byf" is, as noted, Mauser, who produced the P.08 up until 1942, when it was discontinued in favor of P.38 production.

Earlier on, magazines original to the gun were numbered with the full serial and letter, with a "+" to indicate the spare magazine, but this was dropped and the magazine is probably marked P.08 and "fxo" (Haenel).

That is one of the most common Lugers, so it is not a real high ticket item. I would say that it might go about $400-500 depending on the amount of rust. It could go more, depending on how much someone wants a Luger. A 90% without rust would be $600 or so. Those are retail, or private party prices, of course; what a dealer would give is another story.

Jim

September 9, 2002, 08:36 PM	#1
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	luger p08 I need an idea of the price of a luger p08....it has a 4 digit serial nbr 46xx, 4" barrel, plastic grips, and original magazine marked p08, it has a mark which is a v with three horizontal stripes threw it and a lightly hit version of the same mark immediately beside it, makes me think that the first strike wasnt acceptable and they struck the mark again, it also has the swastika beside those marks. All of the parts that are marked have what appear to be numbers that correspond to the last two digits of the serial number. there is the number 42 on the top of the reciver and the letters byf on the latch on the top.......I believe that is the mauser designation and the 42 is the year of manufactuer.....the pistol in appearance would grade out in the low to high 90's, there is a small portion of the barrel with a mild rusting, very mild and very small. This pistol belongs to a friend who would like to sell it. I have a limited knowledge of these firearms.....so any opinions would help, I would like to see him get a good value for this pistol. This pistol was a ww2 bring back, he picked it off of the officer after joining up with Gen. Pattons' crew at the battle of the bulge, he has had it ever since. There is also a winchester mdl 97 in pretty good shape, would I be better off offering this to the cowboy action shooters? it shows some blueing wear, but nothing out of the ordinary... whats a price range on these? thankyou ...fubsy.

September 10, 2002, 03:02 PM	#4
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	All P08s had 4 digit serial #s, actually with a letter so one alpha and 4 digits that would start over with the next letter 10,000 units later. The letter is usually in cursive so it may look to the casual eye like a scratch while the numbers are bolder in appearance. Every 260,000 units you would have P08s duplicating older guns serial #s. This was done to keep the allies in the dark about Germany rearming in contravention of Versailles Treaty, IIRC. It sounds like a wartime Mauserwerke P08 that should have the aluminum knob on magazine. If it is in original condition, it would be a nice keeper but most I've seen are refinished and are really shooter grade. This one could be a relic brought back in some GI's duffle bag. Hope you find out the scoop and let us know. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

September 10, 2002, 07:50 AM	#2
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	You just can't tell with Lugers. And there's no way you can get the proper feedback you need from written descriptions. You need someone who KNOWS these guns to look at it. ( There are so many shysters out selling them as authentic, when they aren't, that its risky -- unless you're buying it as a shooter. And even that could be risky, IF it truly is a pristine as you say...) The mags were generally serial-numbered, I think, and not stamped with a model number. (All of the authentic ones I've had showed a serial number that should match the SN on the frame.) The Waffenampt {acceptance marks} you mention sound authentic. I recently sold a very similar Luger for $1100 -- [less dealer's commission]. I have a very nice shooter that I'd sell for $450. An aside: I don't believe there were enough officers in the German Army to account for all of the "captured from an officer" Lugers floating around. Not to mention the "nickel plated, captured from and officer" models, either. (According to the experts, the Germans NEVER issued nickel-plated guns; all such guns have been "tweaked" by subsequent owners.) Your absolute best bet is to take it to a gun shop that specializes in collectibles. (I used Cherry's in Greensboro, NC -- http://www.cherrys.com ). Or you can offer the seller $600 and tell him its probably worth more...

September 10, 2002, 02:41 PM	#3
Cap n ball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2000 Posts: 247	byf is an ordnance code assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. The 'v' should be a script letter. I don't know what the three lines mean. The mag should have wooden knobs if it's an old one. The newer ones were plastic or metal but all types were made during the war. Many Lugers were assembled from stock parts during the final years of the war. If all the numbers match then chances are it was assembled in one of the three places that had the dies and machinery to make the PO8. All Lugers come from one of three sets of such. There were never any others but during the waning years of the Nazis, guns and weapons of all sorts were assembled wherever they could be and almost any combination is possible. I would send some photos to Ralph Shattuck in Arizona and get his evaluation. He is an expert on this gun and will be fair in his estimation. The PO8 is a really beautiful sidearm and a fine example of German ingenuity. Those guns were built like watches which is one reason that they were prone to having problems in the extremely dirty battlefield conditions where they were used and were replaced by the simpler yet far more field-worthy Walther. I have one of WWI vintage and wouldn't sell it ever. Below is Mr. Shattuck's site URL. http://www.worldoflugers.com/index.htm

September 10, 2002, 03:24 PM	#5
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Id like to thank all of you for the links and the information..... I know the man who owns this pistol and he is not prone to shoot the bull.......the pistol is as good as Im saying, the magazine does have metal knobs on the bottom........I dont particularly want this pistol, I just dont want him taken by a savvy buyer.....I dont recall any cursive script near the serial nbr, but I will look again......it is a beautiful piece though......fubsy.

September 11, 2002, 09:35 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The full serial number is on the front above the trigger guard; it will be 1-4 digits and (usually) a script letter. The "V"'s with lines sound like the German inspector stamps, one for the receiver and one for the gun. The larger eagle and swastika is the combined proof mark and acceptance stamp. The "byf" is, as noted, Mauser, who produced the P.08 up until 1942, when it was discontinued in favor of P.38 production. Earlier on, magazines original to the gun were numbered with the full serial and letter, with a "+" to indicate the spare magazine, but this was dropped and the magazine is probably marked P.08 and "fxo" (Haenel). That is one of the most common Lugers, so it is not a real high ticket item. I would say that it might go about $400-500 depending on the amount of rust. It could go more, depending on how much someone wants a Luger. A 90% without rust would be $600 or so. Those are retail, or private party prices, of course; what a dealer would give is another story. Jim