CCW First Date

[pdkflyguy]

When I first met my wife, I didn't take my gun with me because I wanted to feel out her feelings on the subject. Ok, let me rephrase, I took it with me in the car, but not on my person. IMHO, if you are going to carry around someone you intend to be romantic with later, you ought to explain that to them before they accidentally find it. It's much more palatable to hear someone say, "Yes, I carry a gun for all of life's uncertainties" than to find a bulge where you know it shouldn't be.

For a little more clarification, if it was me, and I was dating again, I would treat every first date differently. If I was going to go out with someone I already knew, chances are they know I carry anyway. If I was being set up on a blind date, I don't think I'd carry. Too many women are already worried enough going out on blind dates, that I don't want to upset her if she accidentally finds a gun without me telling her first. Unless I broach the subject and speak candidly, she has no way of knowing the reasons that I carry. She doesn't know I am being prepared for any situation, nor does she know that I had to take a class and get a background check to get a special permit to carry my weapon. She doesn't know that I spend hours practicing my shooting, and that I am constantly reading up on the law and the times to correctly use a gun. I bet that if the average woman in America saw her blind date with a gun on him, her first thought would not be one of understanding.

[Groundhog]

I find it interesting how many people here are concerned about "being discovered" on their first date. Guess us geeks just don't understand that kind of problem!

[john_galt]

Some people are SOO paranoid and scared they are gonna get robbed or shot at, that they just HAVE to wear the gun 24/7.

Some ppl sure. I do not think most ppl on TFL carry out of fear. I don't lock my door or wear a seat belt or avoid drinking Liquid Plumber out of fear, it's just common sense. I can't believe that all ppl who DO wear seatbelts, DON'T carry a firearm, considering what's at stake, like leadcounsel said.

We are all MUCH, MUCH more likely to have a serious car accident than be involved in a gun-play scenario. So, why doesn't everyone prepare for that much more likely scenario? Why don't we all get roll cages installed in our cars, and five point harnesses, and of course crash helmets, when we get on the dangerous roads?

You're more likely to die in a gun-play scenario than a car accident. Especially with the safety engineering in todays vehicles.

That is much more reasonable than needing to carry a gun in your pants when heading up to a girl's room on a date.

That's right. Leave it in the vehicle because no one ever breaks into vehicles or steals them. Only in bad neighborhoods where all the best cars are.

So, how many ccw holders wear crash helmets, five point harnesses, and roll cages in their cars? Anyone? Why not?

It's a matter of perspective. I carry a spare tire on my vehicle but I have had to use my firearm in a defensive manner 200% more often (twice) then I have had to use my spare tire (never). I am not going to take the spare off my car, that would be stupid.

[Samurai]

First dates are tricky. I would say, DEFINITELY do not get in a car with the girl before you tell her. Tell her, "Oh, by the way, I'm licensed to carry a firearm, so if we go somewhere where there's drinks, I'll have to take it off and leave it in the car." That will get the conversation rolling...

Above all else, don't go ANYWHERE with her unless you tell her first. Why?

Here's your worst case scenario: You don't tell her. Later in the evening, you're sitting in a parked car, and your shirt "accidentally" comes open. She sees the gun. She freaks. She runs screaming. She calls the cops. The cops nab you for attempted aggravated rape with a deadly weapon. You try to explain that it's a big mistake. They don't care. They beat you with billy sticks and tell you to shut your lyin' mouth. You climb onto your soap box and begin lecturing about the 2nd Amendment. You get as far as, "A well-regulated militia being necessary - *COUGH* *COUGH!!* *COUGH!!!!*," before the cops spray you with mace, continue beating you with billy sticks, and kick you on the ground. The cops repeat their warning for you to shut your stinkin' rapist pie hole before they shut it for you. The cops throw you in the jail cell with a guy called "Bubba," and three scrawny dudes that everyone calls "The Sisters." The cops tell Bubba "what you done." Bubba has a violent streak, particularly toward rapists. Chaos ensues...

Questions? Anyone?

Tell her!

[Mr. James]

Guess us geeks just don't understand that kind of problem!

That, or you date a better class of woman.

[eltorrente]

You're more likely to die in a gun-play scenario than a car accident. Especially with the safety engineering in todays vehicles.

In 2005, there were 42,636 car accident deaths. There were 6,420,000 car accidents total with 2,900,000 injuries.

In 2004 (couldn't find 2005 numbers), there were 11,624 homicides by firearms.

The fact is that you are MUCH more likely to have a serious accident than to ever be involved in a shooting.

That's right. Leave it in the vehicle because no one ever breaks into vehicles or steals them. Only in bad neighborhoods where all the best cars are.

No, just don't bring the gun in the first place. It's o.k. to not have a loaded weapon on you at all times. You might be scared, or feel naked without it, but trust me, sometimes you just gotta live on the edge and not carry a loaded gun everywhere. Just like it's o.k. to not install the roll-cage or 5-point harness in your vehicle. Or stainless brake lines, huge rotors, oversize calipers, new suspension, etc.

[spacemanspiff]

Some people are SOO paranoid and scared they are gonna get robbed or shot at, that they just HAVE to wear the gun 24/7

No, not paranoid and scared. Just makes sense. Many of the long time posters here may recall that I went from daily carry, to sporadic carry. The reasoning then was that I carried daily when I had no vehicle and walked to work, store, etc. Once I got a vehicle and was not walking in dangerous areas anymore, I adjusted my carrying philosophy.

Now I have gone back to daily carry. I work part time as a bouncer and have had many threats made on my life, not by drunks, but by thugs and gangbangers who don't like getting kicked out. Our crew has had guns pulled on them, the threat is real. Most of us wear ballistic vests, and its not just at our bar either. Every bar I have gone to that has more than 4 bouncers on the clock has at least one that is vested up. Club O, Koots, Woodshed, Al's, Bush Company, even Humpys.
I am recognized everywhere I go, by people I have never met face to face, they simply see me at work and will make smalltalk when they see me at the store, out to eat, on my nights off at other clubs, everywhere.

So don't label the people who carry 24/7 as 'paranoid'. Just because you can foresee the future and know for 100% fact you are safe, doesnt mean the rest of us have that superpower.

[Fremmer]

Personally, I wouldn't carry on the first or second date. Keep the gun at home, or stashed in the car somewhere. I'd want to gradually break her in to my love of firearms.

[eltorrente]

Spacemanspiff, you're job has caused you to be "marked for death" by some of the many people you encounter, so that is entirely different. I said "SOME" people, not everyone.

[spacemanspiff]

Heh! And I went sooo far off topic, I forgot to address the threads original questions!

The ladies I've been seeing, knew soon after they met me that I carry. At first they were not comfortable with it, but carrying is not something I am going to change just because it makes someone else that is in my proximity uncomfortable.
Now they are fine with it. One has even come to enjoy the social experiment of watching for others peoples reactions to my open carry. Last Sunday at 4:30 in the mornign we went to the grocery store with me still geared up from working at the bar, with vest, oc, cuffs, flashlights, as well as my openly holstered pistol and spare magazines on the belt. And once again, no one noticed. Kids did not drop dead at the sight of a gun. The streets did not run with blood from the nonbelievers.

[john_galt]

In 2005, there were 42,636 car accident deaths. There were 6,420,000 car accidents total with 2,900,000 injuries.

In 2004 (couldn't find 2005 numbers), there were 11,624 homicides by firearms.

The fact is that you are MUCH more likely to have a serious accident than to ever be involved in a shooting.

It isn't about being involved in a 'shooting' as much as it's about preventing and/or being the victim of a violent crime, many of which include firearms, usually NOT the victim.

So go back to your sliderule and compare car accidents/fatalities to violent crime.

You are MUCH more likely to be in a situation where a firearm is beneficial and necessary than in a FATAL car wreck (0.0066% chance based on your stats).

[eltorrente]

So go back to your sliderule and compare car accidents/fatalities to violent crime.

You are MUCH more likely to be in a situation where a firearm is beneficial and necessary than in a FATAL car wreck (0.0066% chance based on your stats).

How about the 2,900,000 injuries, many of which are very serious head, or other debilitating injuries?

You act like a car accident is no big deal, and that gun-play scenarios are more common.

Make fun of my slide-rule stats all you want, but many more people die or are seriously injured in car accidents than those who get shot. Period. Sure, IF you ARE involved in a shooting incident, the chances are greater that someone is gonna get killed compared to if you have a typical car accident, but that isn't the point. The point is that you, or any other person, are still more likely to be killed in a car accident.

The thing about shooting situations is that many people who are murdered are in fact often criminals themselves. Someone posted some info about the Philadelphia murder rate, and the majority of the victims had criminal records. No, of course not all, and there are many innocents killed each year. Obviously if you are involved in say, a gang, or dealing drugs, then you are more likely to have a gun pulled on you. LEO's, too, obviously are at higher risk (and also Rambo/Diry Harry ccw holders who have delusions of heroic disarming of criminals). Car accidents involve everyone, everywhere, because obviously we all share the same roads and noone is necessarily in a lower-risk group.

[Mr. James]

. . . (and also Rambo/Diry [sic] Harry ccw holders who have delusions of heroic disarming of criminals).

Well, now. You've shown a bit too much of your hand, you have.

[leadcounsel]

In 2005, there were 42,636 car accident deaths. There were 6,420,000 car accidents total with 2,900,000 injuries.

In 2004 (couldn't find 2005 numbers), there were 11,624 homicides by firearms.

The fact is that you are MUCH more likely to have a serious accident than to ever be involved in a shooting.

In "The Best Defense" there is a significantly larger number of estimated crimes PREVENTED by an armed victim (I want to say hundreds of thousands annually, but I don't recall). These stats are hard to gather because many go unreported (the victim may have been carrying illegally or just didn't report). I don't know how they compile these stats, but if it's true there are alot of attempted violent crimes.

The point is, it doesn't have to be gunplay. You can imagine any number of scenarios where one or a group of thugs wants to rob, beat, rape you and your date. I feel not only a responsibility for my own defense, but also for the defense of anyone I'm with. I'd rather draw down on some thugs while on my date than get my A$$ whipped and watch her get gangraped and both of us get beaten and robbed. Now that's a nice first date...

I couldn't live with the guilt b/c carrying a gun would have been inconvenient, when ultimately she's going to have to know anyway.

[eltorrente]

In "The Best Defense" there is a significantly larger number of estimated crimes PREVENTED by an armed victim (I want to say hundreds of thousands annually, but I don't recall). These stats are hard to gather because many go unreported (the victim may have been carrying illegally or just didn't report). I don't know how they compile these stats, but if it's true there are alot of attempted violent crimes.

The point is, it doesn't have to be gunplay. You can imagine any number of scenarios where one or a group of thugs wants to rob, beat, rape you and your date. I feel not only a responsibility for my own defense, but also for the defense of anyone I'm with. I'd rather draw down on some thugs while on my date than get my A$$ whipped and watch her get gangraped and both of us get beaten and robbed. Now that's a nice first date...

I couldn't live with the guilt b/c carrying a gun would have been inconvenient, when ultimately she's going to have to know anyway.

I agree, actually. I know that many people that pull a gun are preventing a crime and there is no shooting involved, and maybe it goes unreported after all is said and done.

My whole point in playing devil's advocate with the car accident thing, is that if we all want to be truly prepared and to protect ourselves, why don't we install all the extra safety features in our cars and wear crash helmets? We could lower our risk for head injuries and such, and protect our children and family that ride on the dangerous streets also. It's just something to think about- even though we know it would in fact be safer for us and our passengers, we don't do those things because they would be inconvienient and/or people would laugh at us.

It's all in the situation for me - if my girlfriend lived in the inner-city ghetto, and I pulled up in my red sports car, I would feel unsafe and would want my gun with me. If she lived in the suburbs or a typical middle class neighborhood, I'd just leave it at home.

[john_galt]

It's all in the situation for me - if my girlfriend lived in the inner-city ghetto, and I pulled up in my red sports car, I would feel unsafe and would want my gun with me. If she lived in the suburbs or a typical middle class neighborhood, I'd just leave it at home.

I am the opposite. I wouldn't go to the ghetto in a nice car with my gun looking for trouble. Trouble happens when you're in your home doing nothing, or in a grocery store that gets robbed. It's about being prepared when you LEAST expect things to go bad, not the other way around.

yeah, the ghetto is crazy. Too bad these dummies didn't have their 5-point harnesses on. That would have saved them. But nope, they were living on the edge.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...invasion_N.htm

[kgpcr]

How many of you smoke and carry 24/7?? how many of you have high choleserol and dont take care of it?? how many of you dont get any real exerecise? any one of those will kill you a hell of a lot faster than not carrying on a first date! Yes i do think some of you are WAY to paranoid!!!

[leadcounsel]

How many of you smoke and carry 24/7?? how many of you have high choleserol and dont take care of it?? how many of you dont get any real exerecise? any one of those will kill you a hell of a lot faster than not carrying on a first date! Yes i do think some of you are WAY to paranoid!!!

So, based on your logic, if you have high blood pressure, cholesterol, or don't exercise enough, smoke, etc. then you shouldn't carry a gun until you address these "more likely" terminal problems?

Look, what it boils down to is that those who carry aren't perfect. We may have some problems or make some irresponsible decisions. But what about those people in perfect health that blissfully go about their day taking zero responsibility for her/his own safety and defense?

Frankly, I do lead a fairly "safe" life. I drive only about the national average, live in a relatively safe 'hood, am in very good health, have insurance, wear my seatbelt, don't smoke, occasional drinker, and, except for the occasional Army obligations I am probably going to live for a long long time.

That said, I am of the mentality that I want to take care of my own protection whether it's a first date, last date, or out with friends. If that offends a woman, then she isn't the one for me and it makes it easier to decide who pays the dinner bill

[kgpcr]

Didnt say that lead. what i did say what its paranoid to me to DREAD going anywhere or refusing to go some where because i cant carry or should not carry while i am sucking down a smoke etc when the odds of dying from one of those is a quantum leap higher than dying because you cant carry a gun. You are worried about not protecting them while you smoke so you die early in life but hey i carried a gun untill the day i died at 46yrs old. now who is going to protect them?? What i am saying is worrying about carrying is a lot less important than many other choices we have in life and its silly to think otherwise. I dont think there is one person on this thread who had to use a gun in self defense other than some of us who were in the military. yet some will definately die young due to smoking, cholesterol, high blood pressure, drinking, seatbelts etc. I think only a moron would debate that one

[john_galt]

Choosing not to support establishments that discriminate between citizens by not allowing firearms is not about DREAD.

And I am not scared to have my truck stolen, but i set the alarm, nor my house broken into, but I do lock my doors, or my brains blown out by some criminal, but I carry a gun.

I do not protect myself from these things out of fear or dread. I have been robbed, had my truck stolen, been jumped, had to pull my gun to prevent further harm to myself (despite your claims) AND been in a car wreck (not fatal) and a motorcycle wreck. I smoked for 13 years and quit, I eat wheat bread instead of white, and I drink more water and less soda. Again not out of dread

Why would I waste all I have worked for because I felt ashamed to carry a gun? Maybe you are too self-conscious to be carrying, and by all means YOU should keep your piece at home.

You are the only one talking about carrying a gun out of fear. I carry for the purpose of having the one tool I will need in a most dire circumstance.