The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 29, 2012, 12:17 PM   #1
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 970
real life Judge results

Thought this was interesting on a couple of levels... on an archery forum I frequent, one of the guys was warning Texas hunters to watch out, because of the rattlesnakes out there. It includes a pic of a LARGE rattler that, according to him, took THREE shots from a Judge to kill it.
I don't know how accurately the shots were placed, but I think that one or two well placed shots from a Ruger .22 MkII would have done the trick, as well. (or, better?)
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1899743 is the link to the thread, for those interested..
__________________
I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..
hornetguy is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 12:32 PM   #2
rem44m
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 171
Always interesting to see.
__________________
I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

"If gun owners are as violent as anti-gunners said we are, there wouldn't be any anti's left"
rem44m is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 05:47 PM   #3
Master Blaster 2
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2011
Posts: 895
Don't undertstand how a bow and arrow cant kill a snake?
Master Blaster 2 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 06:06 PM   #4
twobit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2010
Location: Coyote Creak, SW Texas
Posts: 597
Exactly. Hold on to the feather end of the arrow and poke the snake in the head with the other end...dead snake. But you do the pok'in, I'll watch from a distance.

But for real, I have a friend that stepped out of his pickup at a farm gate one night to open the gate and he stepped right on top of a rattler. He kept his boot on top of the snake (just behind the head) and used a bic ink pen from his pocket to kill the snake by pushing the pen through the head of the snake. He couldn't reach anything else to kill it with and did not want to take his foot off the snake. I saw the snake a couple of hours later with the ink pen still stuck through it's head. It was a mid sized snake about three feet long.
__________________
Twobit,
Strive to live up to the opinion that your dog has of you.
twobit is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 07:23 AM   #5
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Quote:
It includes a pic of a LARGE rattler that, according to him, took THREE shots from a Judge to kill it.
That doesn't come as a surprise to me in the least.
I used to carry a two shot .22 derringer in my jacket pocket loaded with one shot shell and one CB cap.
Every year in the Spring, when the grass grew real long, real fast, i was forever hitting snakes w/the tractor when mowing the grass.
All nonpoisonous of course since we don't have that kind in our yards here in NE Ohio - that I or the DNR is aware of anyhow..mostly garter snakes I believe, usually a foot to two long.

They'd come out of the mower in bad shape, but, still alive.

I'd "pop" them in the head with a shot shell first to slow them down, then finish them off with a CB cap. I don't recall how many I've sent to snake heaven over the years - maybe a dozen or two.
I do recall that all of them took a solid to the head to end things. The shot shells just slowed them down.

Snakes are tough.

Sad footnote...
Local laws changed and now it's illegal to humanely put down an injured creature.
Now I have to hack them up with a machete. It's pretty gross and I hate having to do it that way...
Hal is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:46 AM   #6
Dain Bramage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2001
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 219
Quote:
real life Judge results
Looks like real life Judge result.

Not a tremendous lesson to be taken from a sample size of one, other than critters can be tough and cling to life just like you or I would.

And I'm not a Judge fanboi. Don't own a Judge or Governor, and probably never will.
Dain Bramage is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 12:21 PM   #7
micromontenegro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2010
Posts: 645
I had been snakeless for a long while, and suddenly two nasties appeared in my garden in the last week. One was killed by the dogs. The other one (really small one, around 15 inches) I had to dispatch, and I only had a .177 air rifle in my hands... but that should suffice, right? After two .177 pellets to "neck" (at over 700 fps, rabbit killing territory) the snake was becoming very angry, so I had to go for the machete. And even after cutting the head off, the severed head threw bites at the air for a while! Some snakes are scarily slow to die.
micromontenegro is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 12:37 PM   #8
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,712
A buddy of mine is a small rural resort property manager. The Judge is his skunk gun. He thinks it is great for the job.

The problem with using the Judge on snakes isn't the platform. .410 shotshells should be great and you can have 5 of them. Lots of folks carry the giganto Bond Arms derringers as snake guns and think they are great for the job, also chambered in .410/.45LC.

The problem is with the shooter.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:11 PM   #9
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,970
Quote:
A buddy of mine is a small rural resort property manager. The Judge is his skunk gun. He thinks it is great for the job.
Haven't had to do any snakes or skunks with the Judge yet but I can say for a fact that is does a great job on raccoon and opossum.
shortwave is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:46 PM   #10
Redneckrepairs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2006
Posts: 666
We have one in the pickup for ranch duty , and in many rattlers it has never took more than one load of 7.5 shot to be an instant off switch . I would imagine we have killed 20 or 30 snakes with it so far . It works well to put down broken legged cattle when used as a .45 colt also .
Redneckrepairs is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 04:17 PM   #11
scrubcedar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2012
Location: Southwestern Colorado
Posts: 507
Head shots with a .22mag work just fine. Why would you need scattershot anyway? I couldn't get the picture to download, was there some "spray and pray" going on here?
__________________
Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado
scrubcedar is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 04:22 PM   #12
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,525
Snakes don't always know they are dead. I killed a rattlesnake several years ago by shooting it once with a 9mm. I then cut off and buried its head and tossed the body into the back of the truck. I then spent about 45 minutes on a tractor while my daughter read in the truck. The snake squirmed the whole time and was still moving a little when I skinned it.

It could be that the first shot killed the snake but it kept moving and the shooter fired two more shots not knowing it was dead.
2damnold4this is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 07:23 PM   #13
Redneckrepairs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2006
Posts: 666
Quote:
Head shots with a .22mag work just fine. Why would you need scattershot anyway?
Because my bride is somewhat snake phobic , and cant shoot worth a darn when " rattled " . I figure the Judge has paid for its self in the cost of .45 acp ammo alone ( for her carry gun ) .
Redneckrepairs is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 07:55 PM   #14
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
My grandmother was death on snakes with her garden hoe. That woman could cut the head off with one swipe.

I know that a 410 from my single shot derringer loaded with light shot will dispatch a cotton mouth and not put a hole in an aluminum boat. The judge should do just as well.
ltc444 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:44 PM   #15
bedbugbilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 3,282
I don't think you can be too hard on someone that takes a couple of shots . . . you have to remember that he was probably surprised by the snake and probably a little "shook up" as well.

Five years ago we started to winter in Arizona - we only have one type of rattler in Michigan and in my 60 years, I've only seen two and they were pictures in the local paper where someone had 'em show up in their yard. I live around swamps and on a farm and we never saw 'em there.
Now, transplant me to AZ and the first few I saw scared the snot out of me. I suppose when you grow up with 'em, you're used to 'em. We have even run our dogs through "rattlesnake aversion training" and while we have a house in a developed community in AZ, they are around. I just try to keep alert - not only for myself but the dogs as well. I don't know which I hate more - the rattlers or the Javelenas that come into our yard and eat our plants.

We had a smaller rattler come up in our drive by the house one time and I quickly dispatched it with a shovel. When we mentioned it to one of the neighbors (who is a tree hugger type) she got all bent out of shape because I smacked it. I tried to explain that I really didn't kill it - it just was in such a hurry trying to get away that it smacked its head on my shovel and committed suicide. We an call our local FD if we spot one and they will come and pick it up and transplant it back int he desert. In talking with one of the firemen, they usually average about 3,000 snakes a year - a lot more than I expected.
__________________
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
bedbugbilly is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 02:08 AM   #16
Mello2u
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,424
It is hard to tell when a rattlesnake is dead.

I shot one near 5' in length with the best head shot I can imagine. It kept moving.

So I cut its head off. It kept moving for about two hours. I used to have a video of it moving without the head. All I could find was a pic:

Note that it is still able to contract its muscles.
__________________
NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society,
they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it.
" Frederic Bastiat

Last edited by Mello2u; December 1, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
Mello2u is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 12:31 PM   #17
bedbugbilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 3,282
That's quite the snake!

After reading and posting on this thread last night, I got to thinking about the rattlers. In some of the GS in AZ, I've seen "shot shells" for 38 spl/357 as well as some other cartridge sizes. I'm just curious if anyone has had any experience with these and if they work at all, or are they just "hype"? I've never picked any up but I just wondering if they can put enough shot into a 38 spl casing to get an effective/killing pattern at a shorter distance?
__________________
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
bedbugbilly is offline  
Old December 1, 2012, 01:44 PM   #18
seeker_two
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2002
Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 2,169
The OP's story is missing a lot of info.....

Distance?
Load?
How many holes did the snakeskin have post-shooting?
How much practice did said bowman have with that gun/load combo?

Having known plenty of bowhunters (who also tend to be bass anglers....coincidence? ), I'll just let this one glide on by....
__________________
Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......
seeker_two is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:44 AM   #19
Grant D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Location: Brazos County, Texas
Posts: 1,038
bedbugbilly:
I took out a four foot snake with one shot of 22 snake shot,it works pretty good.
I have it in 22,38,and 45 long colt.I have a revolver loaded with each, at all times.

I hit 6 out of 6 clays at station seven at a skeet range using it in my 2 1/2" snubnose S&W Model 66.
Grant D is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 02:41 PM   #20
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Quote:
In some of the GS in AZ, I've seen "shot shells" for 38 spl/357 as well as some other cartridge sizes. I'm just curious if anyone has had any experience with these
I've used some in .22lr and .44mag.

The problem - at least with the older ones I have,,,maybe 25 to 30 years old,,is that the plastic case seems to disrupt whatever "pattern" they may throw.
Also, shot from a rifled barrel has a tendency to "doughnut"....it patterns like a doughnut w/a pretty good sized hole in the center w/no shot in it.
I'd heard/read that before I bought them - it was back around the time TC came out with a .410/.45 Colt barrel for the Contender.
An article I read at that time said TC addressed the issue w/a screw in choke.

I don't know if the Judge or the S&W guns do similar w/the .410 or not.

I did pattern both the .22 and the .44mag and there was a good sized hole in the center w/no pellet strikes out of the .44mag.
The shot from the .22 shot shell bounced off the cardboard box I was using so I have no idea how it "patterned".

I haven't bought any of it in years and it may have gotten better.
Hal is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:41 PM   #21
bedbugbilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 3,282
Thanks fellas. I'd be looking at the shotshells in 38 spl. I guess the best way to find out is to buy a box and do some pattern tests. I CC a 357 snubbie and I have a feeling that the pattern out of that on a snake could be "iffy". For hiking though, I'd probably be carrying my 357 New Vaquero (5 1/2") or my S & W (6"). I would assume the longer barrel would maybe keep the pattern tighter but who knows without doing a test on cardboard.

I've used 22 shotshells for years - mainly on gophers. They work pretty well up close but too far out and you might just as well through up a handfull of dust.

Thans!
__________________
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
bedbugbilly is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:49 PM   #22
Colorado Redneck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2008
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 1,993
You can roll your own snake shot. Speer sells shot capsules for that. According to the load data you can get velocities from 1000-1100 fps with #9 shot. Haven't had a chance to conduct perforation testing on snakes yet, but the wild aluminum pop cans get really holey when shot at 6 feet.
Colorado Redneck is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 08:20 AM   #23
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,528
I drop big gray squires dead with #9 shot from my Taurus Public Defender from 10 yards away. I am talking instant dead without even a flinch. Snakes will move for a hour with their head cut off. A #9 shot will blow the head clean off so even if the snake is still moving, he can't harm you. I have also dispatched a few large farm animals with Federal 00buck. Anyone thinks a Judge isn't a efficient killer hasn't used one. Think outside the box with this gun. Four 36 caliber balls traveling at 1000 ft./s hitting its target exactly the same time. That's like getting shot by four separate 38spl at the same time. The energy is amazing and instantly killed a 100lbs pig as if it were hit by a 44mag. There is a irrational hatred towards the shot gun pistols I don't understand?? I think they hate the creator of the gun Taurus and it clouds their judgement.
I've been to Gunsite two times, shot IPSC competitively for 15 years, and a avid handgun hunter. The 410 shotgun pistols with the right ammo is a extremely effective defensive handgun and also makes a great trail gun. I've seen what it can do.
__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

Last edited by Mystro; December 3, 2012 at 08:36 AM.
Mystro is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 09:53 PM   #24
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 5,172
I do not own a Judge, but I do have an S&W M25 in .45LC. I read these two threads on making your own shotshells and decided to give it a try.

The first uses loose shot, uses a home made undershot wad and overshot "cap". This is a bit more effort, but I believe you can fit more shot into the shell this way. The powder takes up very little room. I used #9 shot, but others have tried #11 and 12.
http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm

The other method uses the Speer shot capsules. My LGS ordered them for me...50 to a box for under $10. And that was .45LC. I think .357 is cheaper, simply because they sell more of them. This is the neater/cleaner method. Once again, I used #9 shot.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570054

One more thing--unlike many other applications, for handgun shot shells, when it comes to powder/velocity, less may be more. Less powder leaves more room for shot (in the first method) and a velocity of +/-700fps seems to keep the pattern tighter. We are only talking 10-15 feet here, and don't need 18" of penetration.

I tried both. I had some problems with the first method--the type of glue you use makes a difference. With a cylinder full of the handmade shot shells, after firing two, I examined the remainder. The overshot "caps" were coming off of one or two due to recoil. If a cap comes off, the shot goes...who knows where?

I went back to the drawing board and tried a different glue, and problem solved...for now.

Disclaimer: I only tried a half dozen of each, so my sample size is very small.
In actual use, I would probably carry one shotshell in the cylinder, maybe another "Barney bullet" or two in my pocket.

ETA: Snakes are fairly resistant to dying. When I was a kid my dad killed many a snake and the old wives' tale was that a snake would not die until sundown.
orionengnr is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11750 seconds with 10 queries