Dud Primers

ShootingNut · December 22, 2007, 09:13 AM

Any other reloaders, find a primer now and then that doesn't fire even though it is hit well by the firing pin?
Down at the range yesterday, shooting my M&P40 semi with my reloads.
Out of 150 rounds, I had 2 that I had to rechamber and hit the second time for them to fire. Then, I had one that I triggered 3 times and yet no BANG. So, is that one an ill manufactured primer, that missed getting its (guts) ingredients?

My gun seems to really put a good dent, pretty much centered on the primer, and the indentation appears as deep as all the others that work just fine.
Any thoughts, or personal experiences shared would be most appreciated!

SN
Forgot to mention, I use Winchester's WSP primers.

castnblast · December 22, 2007, 09:54 AM

I've reloaded well in excess of 200,000 rounds (vast quantity of that was 10+ years ago when I used to load for myself and 3 other IPSC shooters on a dillion 1050, along w/ range ammo for an indoor shooting range) and I think I can recall it happening twice to my recollection. Both were in 40 S&W, and yes, the dud was a result of no guts. Take the bullet appart and inspect. It is a very rare occurrence. I never had it happen in a rifle, but proportionately, I've loaded far fewer rifle than pistol, probably 10:1 or less. I prefer CCI, just because that's what I've always used, and they tend to not go off when seating them. I've had problems w/ Federals going off when seating them, which is why I don't use them.

**Mal H** · December 22, 2007, 10:18 AM

I haven't reloaded as much as castnblast, but my count is way up there and I honestly don't recall a primer failing to fire in a round that I loaded.

Getting a 1 1/3% failure rate (your failure rate) is extraordinarily high. I would look to causes other than faulty primers. Some of which are:

a) Seating primers too high (one of the more common problems). When a primer is seated too high, even though it may be flush with or slightly below the rim, usually causes the firing pin to finish seating the primer and then it will often fire on the next hit.

b) A light firing pin strike. You seem to have eliminated that one though.

c) Something is fouling up your primers before or after they are seated in the case.

stovepipe699 · December 22, 2007, 10:57 AM

You may not be seating your primers hard enough. I had the same problem as you when I first bought a Lee Autoprime. I just wasn't embedding the anvils into the priming compound . They would fire after a few attempts.

ShootingNut · December 22, 2007, 11:53 AM

You may be correct. Although it seems as if I'm putting quite a bit of pressure on the handle. And they appear to be just below the casing base.
So your saying, you can give er' all ya got, and they will seat deeper without blowing off?
SN
And Thanks to the 2 other gentlemen for sharing your experience and thoughts, appreciate that!

dakota1911 · December 22, 2007, 12:01 PM

I have had it happen in some older reloads in .45 ACP. Like 30 years old. They have been stored in 50 cal. ammo cans in 50 round RCBS boxes, and the seals were good on the 50 cal. cans. All have been in used, cleaned brass, CCI primers put in with an RCBS press. The older Win. and Fed. factory ammo stored with them has not had an issue.

RDub · December 22, 2007, 01:15 PM

Well I'm with everyone else having loaded thousands of rounds of about every flavor, and a primer failure is extremely rare..

However, a little experience lately...

I bought a can of WW571 on sale at a local gun shop and thought I would use it in 'somethin' down the road..
So I'm putting together about 300 .40S&W rounds with cast bullets for plinkin, and deciding on what powder to use and see that can of 571 sittin there..
For some reason, at the time, I decide to use some magnum primers since 571 is a relatively slow powder for .40S&W and 571 is in the ball powder class.

Well I get out to where I shoot and discover that only about 50% of the rounds are firing!

So, I scratch my head in wonderment trying to figure out what the #%*@ is going on here...
I finally trace it back to magnum primers and pull all those rounds and re-assemble with standard primers. Whalla! no problems!

So it seems that Sigma40's firing pin doesn't have enough 'Umph' to fire mag primers, but standard primers are fine.

So even after all the years of doing this, I can still learn something..

I say all this to suggest that your problem might be primer related.. Just a thought.

stovepipe699 · December 22, 2007, 02:45 PM

Shootingnut, I don't shoot pistols so it could be something to do with the firing pin etc, I have no experience that side. Are you priming with your press or a hand primer? I made a bunch of duds for deer hunting one year when I first got my hand primer- I was worried about setting off primers by squeezing them too much. After getting a feel for it I had no more trouble. I clean my primer pockets every time b/c when I don't I found a fair bit of resistance to seat the primer to the bottom. I don't know if that is a normal pistol practice, but something to consider.

amamnn · December 22, 2007, 05:49 PM

Some years ago I had 2 alleged "benchrest" primers fail to ignite during a match. Upon examination, they were found to contain no stryphate. I figured that could happen on any assembly line on a Monday or something and still bought the same primers occasionally, but never again for match use and eventually just phased out that brand entirely. Early this year we go an apparent bad lot of the same brand delivered to shops here locally as several shooters experienced weak primer ignition resulting in bullets stuck in barrels. Unfortunately, I was one. I had bought some of them as primers were scarce. Until that happened I could have said that in over 50 years of loading all types of cartridges and hulls I had only the one bad experience. Times have changed, it seems.

ShootingNut · December 22, 2007, 08:04 PM

Can we narrow this down to a certain brand, or is it across the board?

jamaica · December 22, 2007, 10:56 PM

I have loaded for many years, and don't ever remember having a bad primer.

I thought I had one once, so I took it apart, and lo there was no powder, so I punched the primer and lo it had been fired. I dunno, but somehnow I had seated a bullet in a fired casing. (blush) The moral to this story is, "Pay attention to detail." VBG

Carry on!

jamaica · December 22, 2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Early this year we go an apparent bad lot of the same brand delivered to shops here locally as several shooters experienced weak primer ignition resulting in bullets stuck in barrels.

This is what happens when there is no powder, or not enough, in the round.
Can you say for sure it was the primers fault?

crowbeaner · December 22, 2007, 11:31 PM

In the 35+ years I've been reloading ammo I've only had 2 primers that didn't fire at all. One CCI and one WW both small rifle. Out of the several tens of thousands of rounds I've shot that isn't too bad. You benchrest guys need to weigh each primer prior to loading them just to be sure. These new digital scales sure make it easier to do than with the old balance beam. Sorry; I'm kinda old school. CB.

KEN K · January 5, 2008, 07:49 PM

Iv'e had two primers fail on the first but fire on the second try and they were from some of the first rounds I loaded, after looking at the rest of that batch I found a few that weren't seated all the way so I pulled the bullets and re seated them. Now I pay close attention to the seating before I load up. TYhank God this happened in front of a taget not a deer.

Sigma 40 Blaster · January 5, 2008, 10:00 PM

I have maybe one or two for every few boxes of primers I go through.

I cannot say for certain if this was my fault or the primers...funny thing is that it happens way less often now that I stopped tumbling with primers out.

WESHOOT2 · January 7, 2008, 08:59 AM

I used to prime using a pair of LEE hand-prime units, but broke both during one session, so I bought two RCBS units and they have worked fine.
My Dillon XL650 has never to my knowledge produced a rd that did not ignite due to primer issues.

I have two CCI500 primers on my shelf with 'parts missing', but they are both about 30 yrs old.

IF one is having primer woes most highly recommend finding fault reason; I suggest most woes will be directly related to the seating process

Crimp · January 7, 2008, 09:59 AM

I use CCI exclusively; large rifle, small pistol, small pistol mag, large pistol and large pistol mag. In my several years of handloading, I can't remember a failure.

45Marlin carbine · January 7, 2008, 02:44 PM

I had 3 failures to ignite from one carton (100 primers) of a well-known make. I've not yet pulled the slugs down to trace the cause.

kjshank1 · January 7, 2008, 04:05 PM

I'm new at reloading, but i have had a similar problem. I'm reloading .380 and I'm reusing the brass several times because I'm using a really weak load. It seems like the more i use the brass, the harder it is to seat the primers. I think mine are failing because I'm having to use too much force to seat the primers. Just my .02

ShootingNut · January 8, 2008, 07:16 AM

Strange, if anything I find the primer pocket to "wear in" and loosen up a tad the more I load a casing. A once fired casing for me takes a little more push, and seems to be a tighter fit.
I don't load the .380 so maybe it is peculiar to it I don't know, sorry.

Regards,
SN

gandog56 · January 8, 2008, 08:03 AM

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have only had one gun that for some reason did not like federal primers. It was a Ruger KP89DC 9mm. It never failed to ignite any other primer, and I had a brother KP944DC 40 S&W that did not mind the Federals at all. I got two boxes of 1000 on sale, but never bought them after that.

December 22, 2007, 09:13 AM	#1
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Dud Primers Any other reloaders, find a primer now and then that doesn't fire even though it is hit well by the firing pin? Down at the range yesterday, shooting my M&P40 semi with my reloads. Out of 150 rounds, I had 2 that I had to rechamber and hit the second time for them to fire. Then, I had one that I triggered 3 times and yet no BANG. So, is that one an ill manufactured primer, that missed getting its (guts) ingredients? My gun seems to really put a good dent, pretty much centered on the primer, and the indentation appears as deep as all the others that work just fine. Any thoughts, or personal experiences shared would be most appreciated! SN Forgot to mention, I use Winchester's WSP primers.

December 22, 2007, 09:54 AM	#2
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	I've reloaded well in excess of 200,000 rounds (vast quantity of that was 10+ years ago when I used to load for myself and 3 other IPSC shooters on a dillion 1050, along w/ range ammo for an indoor shooting range) and I think I can recall it happening twice to my recollection. Both were in 40 S&W, and yes, the dud was a result of no guts. Take the bullet appart and inspect. It is a very rare occurrence. I never had it happen in a rifle, but proportionately, I've loaded far fewer rifle than pistol, probably 10:1 or less. I prefer CCI, just because that's what I've always used, and they tend to not go off when seating them. I've had problems w/ Federals going off when seating them, which is why I don't use them. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

December 22, 2007, 11:53 AM	#5
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	stovepipe You may be correct. Although it seems as if I'm putting quite a bit of pressure on the handle. And they appear to be just below the casing base. So your saying, you can give er' all ya got, and they will seat deeper without blowing off? SN And Thanks to the 2 other gentlemen for sharing your experience and thoughts, appreciate that!

December 22, 2007, 05:49 PM	#9
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	Some years ago I had 2 alleged "benchrest" primers fail to ignite during a match. Upon examination, they were found to contain no stryphate. I figured that could happen on any assembly line on a Monday or something and still bought the same primers occasionally, but never again for match use and eventually just phased out that brand entirely. Early this year we go an apparent bad lot of the same brand delivered to shops here locally as several shooters experienced weak primer ignition resulting in bullets stuck in barrels. Unfortunately, I was one. I had bought some of them as primers were scarce. Until that happened I could have said that in over 50 years of loading all types of cartridges and hulls I had only the one bad experience. Times have changed, it seems. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

December 22, 2007, 08:04 PM	#10
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	A Certain Brand? Can we narrow this down to a certain brand, or is it across the board?

December 22, 2007, 10:18 AM	#3
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	I haven't reloaded as much as castnblast, but my count is way up there and I honestly don't recall a primer failing to fire in a round that I loaded. Getting a 1 1/3% failure rate (your failure rate) is extraordinarily high. I would look to causes other than faulty primers. Some of which are: a) Seating primers too high (one of the more common problems). When a primer is seated too high, even though it may be flush with or slightly below the rim, usually causes the firing pin to finish seating the primer and then it will often fire on the next hit. b) A light firing pin strike. You seem to have eliminated that one though. c) Something is fouling up your primers before or after they are seated in the case.

December 22, 2007, 10:57 AM	#4
stovepipe699 Junior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: an igloo in the Great White North Posts: 11	You may not be seating your primers hard enough. I had the same problem as you when I first bought a Lee Autoprime. I just wasn't embedding the anvils into the priming compound . They would fire after a few attempts.

December 22, 2007, 12:01 PM	#6
dakota1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: The Great American Desert Posts: 501	I have had it happen in some older reloads in .45 ACP. Like 30 years old. They have been stored in 50 cal. ammo cans in 50 round RCBS boxes, and the seals were good on the 50 cal. cans. All have been in used, cleaned brass, CCI primers put in with an RCBS press. The older Win. and Fed. factory ammo stored with them has not had an issue.

December 22, 2007, 01:15 PM	#7
RDub Member Join Date: November 13, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 30	Well I'm with everyone else having loaded thousands of rounds of about every flavor, and a primer failure is extremely rare.. However, a little experience lately... I bought a can of WW571 on sale at a local gun shop and thought I would use it in 'somethin' down the road.. So I'm putting together about 300 .40S&W rounds with cast bullets for plinkin, and deciding on what powder to use and see that can of 571 sittin there.. For some reason, at the time, I decide to use some magnum primers since 571 is a relatively slow powder for .40S&W and 571 is in the ball powder class. Well I get out to where I shoot and discover that only about 50% of the rounds are firing! So, I scratch my head in wonderment trying to figure out what the #%*@ is going on here... I finally trace it back to magnum primers and pull all those rounds and re-assemble with standard primers. Whalla! no problems! So it seems that Sigma40's firing pin doesn't have enough 'Umph' to fire mag primers, but standard primers are fine. So even after all the years of doing this, I can still learn something.. I say all this to suggest that your problem might be primer related.. Just a thought.

December 22, 2007, 02:45 PM	#8
stovepipe699 Junior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: an igloo in the Great White North Posts: 11	Shootingnut, I don't shoot pistols so it could be something to do with the firing pin etc, I have no experience that side. Are you priming with your press or a hand primer? I made a bunch of duds for deer hunting one year when I first got my hand primer- I was worried about setting off primers by squeezing them too much. After getting a feel for it I had no more trouble. I clean my primer pockets every time b/c when I don't I found a fair bit of resistance to seat the primer to the bottom. I don't know if that is a normal pistol practice, but something to consider.

December 22, 2007, 10:56 PM	#11
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I have loaded for many years, and don't ever remember having a bad primer. I thought I had one once, so I took it apart, and lo there was no powder, so I punched the primer and lo it had been fired. I dunno, but somehnow I had seated a bullet in a fired casing. (blush) The moral to this story is, "Pay attention to detail." VBG Carry on!

December 22, 2007, 11:31 PM	#13
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	In the 35+ years I've been reloading ammo I've only had 2 primers that didn't fire at all. One CCI and one WW both small rifle. Out of the several tens of thousands of rounds I've shot that isn't too bad. You benchrest guys need to weigh each primer prior to loading them just to be sure. These new digital scales sure make it easier to do than with the old balance beam. Sorry; I'm kinda old school. CB. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

January 5, 2008, 07:49 PM	#14
KEN K Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Location: mid west Georgia Posts: 102	Iv'e had two primers fail on the first but fire on the second try and they were from some of the first rounds I loaded, after looking at the rest of that batch I found a few that weren't seated all the way so I pulled the bullets and re seated them. Now I pay close attention to the seating before I load up. TYhank God this happened in front of a taget not a deer.

January 5, 2008, 10:00 PM	#15
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	I have maybe one or two for every few boxes of primers I go through. I cannot say for certain if this was my fault or the primers...funny thing is that it happens way less often now that I stopped tumbling with primers out.

January 7, 2008, 08:59 AM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	prime numbers; are you seated? I used to prime using a pair of LEE hand-prime units, but broke both during one session, so I bought two RCBS units and they have worked fine. My Dillon XL650 has never to my knowledge produced a rd that did not ignite due to primer issues. I have two CCI500 primers on my shelf with 'parts missing', but they are both about 30 yrs old. IF one is having primer woes most highly recommend finding fault reason; I suggest most woes will be directly related to the seating process __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 7, 2008, 09:59 AM	#17
Crimp Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 276	I use CCI exclusively; large rifle, small pistol, small pistol mag, large pistol and large pistol mag. In my several years of handloading, I can't remember a failure. __________________ -Montani Semper Liberi- West Virginians: Consider joining the West Virginia Citizens Defense League.

January 7, 2008, 02:44 PM	#18
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I had 3 failures to ignite from one carton (100 primers) of a well-known make. I've not yet pulled the slugs down to trace the cause.

January 7, 2008, 04:05 PM	#19
kjshank1 Member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Posts: 21	similar problem I'm new at reloading, but i have had a similar problem. I'm reloading .380 and I'm reusing the brass several times because I'm using a really weak load. It seems like the more i use the brass, the harder it is to seat the primers. I think mine are failing because I'm having to use too much force to seat the primers. Just my .02

January 8, 2008, 07:16 AM	#20
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	kjshank1 Strange, if anything I find the primer pocket to "wear in" and loosen up a tad the more I load a casing. A once fired casing for me takes a little more push, and seems to be a tighter fit. I don't load the .380 so maybe it is peculiar to it I don't know, sorry. Regards, SN

January 8, 2008, 08:03 AM	#21
gandog56 Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2006 Location: Mobile, Alabama Posts: 979	Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have only had one gun that for some reason did not like federal primers. It was a Ruger KP89DC 9mm. It never failed to ignite any other primer, and I had a brother KP944DC 40 S&W that did not mind the Federals at all. I got two boxes of 1000 on sale, but never bought them after that. __________________ Some people think I'm paranoid because I have guns. If I have guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

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