October 25, 2012, 06:33 PM | #26 |
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At least in Chicago, "everyone that can carry" consists of LEOs and licensed security workers on the job. That's not very many people. Of course, a fair number of gang-bangers will be carrying, as well. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, and the only people I knew who carried firearms were cops. The idea of an average joe carrying was such a foreign concept that the local news did a special story on it when they found someone who figured out the "unloaded concealed carry" loophole. The news wasn't going with the "look at this intelligent guy" angle either!
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October 25, 2012, 06:49 PM | #27 | ||
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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October 25, 2012, 08:05 PM | #28 |
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To back Franks original point, let me offer a scenario that I was involved in. My wife, children ( ranging from 4-7 years old), and I were walking down the sixteenth street mall in Denver. This is a outdoor mall, fairly upscale, in downtown Denver.
As we were walking in larger crowds In an urban setting, I was maintaining a little higher awareness than usual. I became aware that there were two people who seemed to be pacing us, on our side of the street. I decided I had a sudden interest in the window display in front of me and stopped us all right there, sure enough both of them stopped, glanced at each other, then at someone else across the street that I had noticed before as well. Fairly typical looking teenagers, it would have been easy to miss them. At this point I KNEW from their anxiety and the general "I'm up to no good" look they all had that something was up here. At that point I moved the wife and children behind me up next to the wall, my annoyed wife asking me what exactly I was doing. I announced in a loud voice that was meant to carry" we are not moving anywhere until those three following us leave, that one there, that one there, and that one across the street!", pointing as I talked. The three looked at each other again, guilt unmistakable, and ran off in three different directions. This was before cell phones and concealed carry laws became common, yet I don't know if I would act differently now. My actions forestalled a physical confrontation, headed it off at the pass so to speak. The best fight in my opinion being the one you don't have. Nowadays the temptation would be strong to continue to lead them and call LE hoping to catch and remove the predators knowing that I go into those situations armed. That would be the testosterone in me talking, and I am now old enough to use the proper label for it, moronic stupidity. Listen to grumpy old uncle scrub, fight only when you have to, run if you can, and remember THE ONLY WAY YOU GET MULTIPLE CHOICES IS TO PAY ATTENTION!
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October 25, 2012, 09:08 PM | #29 |
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Which part condones illegal activity?
People in Chicago surely carry some use loopholes in the laws others openly break the law. Having lived in Chicago, owned a business in Chicago, my sister, aunts and many close cousins live in Chicago. One cousin is a Sgt. w/ Chicago PD. I'm in Chicago often it's a short 6 hour drive from my home in Detroit. 5hrs 38min from my driveway to her front door about 3blocks down lake shore dr from McCormick place. I would say I have a good read on what happens in both places. I know more than a few realtors and insurance professionals that own and likely carry handguns and they know the law in Chicago. As far as in my hometown, due to the nature of my work I do see lots of people that own guns that don't have carry permits, at least some of them do carry at least if you believe the news. I have also been to New Orleans a lot, lived in Atlanta, and Jamaica (Queens). Jacksonville. Fla and DC for about 90 days each I believe in the laws of the government which I live, personally I don't break them I got waaay too much to lose, I'd be lying to say I don't know people that do break them. Last edited by rodeo roy; October 25, 2012 at 09:21 PM. |
October 25, 2012, 09:12 PM | #30 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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October 25, 2012, 09:31 PM | #31 |
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Why? Really what good would that do for you? What I know or don't know is of real concern of yours. It's one thing to offer differing veiws on the topic, but it seems strange that you would want to question me. Why?
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October 25, 2012, 09:42 PM | #32 |
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Rodeo roy, am I to understand that you're trying to say that Detroit does not have a violent crime problem because so many people carry legally and illegally?
It seems that you are unfamiliar with the law in IL and Chicago. You cannot carry in IL unless you are LE or security, you couldn't even have a handgun in Chicago until a couple of years ago. To say that anyone, that's not part of the previously stipulated categories, carries legally via some loophole in Chicago is flat out wrong. |
October 25, 2012, 09:42 PM | #33 | |||
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My concern is that insofar as possible accurate information be provided on this board. If you claim that there are loopholes that permit an ordinary person to carry a loaded gun concealed in Chicago, it's not unreasonable to expect you to provide evidence supporting that claim. Otherwise folks reading your posts might be misled to their detriment. And if there are no such loopholes, your statement in post 24 (emphasis added): is condoning or encouraging illegal activity. Quote:
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October 25, 2012, 10:25 PM | #34 |
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Detroit has a violent crime problem to be sure. People here have responded by arming themselves some do legally others make a choice to do it anyway hoping the police will go easy.
Open carry is allowed here in some places so you see grandpa and grandma carrying in the supermarket. The bad guy really don't know who got a gun and who don't. With that said lots of desperate people take chances a really weekly some bg is getting shot by an armed citizen. People I know in Chicago carry unloaded guns some in locked trunks, I've known some that "work " for security companies. One lady started a company. I consider those as loopholes. Frank you do a good job at citing post please cite my post that I personally condoned any illegal activity there or any where. I know it has happen, I've seen it first hand. Your board your rules Last edited by rodeo roy; October 25, 2012 at 10:36 PM. |
October 25, 2012, 10:44 PM | #35 | |
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So you equate legally transporting a firearm to carrying? Or setting up a company to carry a "loophole", even though they would have to be on duty to carry. Doesn't seem like much a loop hole, sounds like running a security business and carrying during the performance of your duties. If they're carrying otherwise, they're doing it illegally.
Just to be clear these are the exemptions for security guards etc. Quote:
Last edited by sigcurious; October 25, 2012 at 10:54 PM. |
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October 25, 2012, 10:53 PM | #36 | ||
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People can read it and decide for themselves if asking folks if they'd like to be caught without a gun even though it's illegal to carry one is encouraging or condoning illegal activity. I think it is. Anyone reading this thread can decide for himself.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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October 28, 2012, 11:57 AM | #37 | |
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This is exactly the kind of posts that I enjoy reading here at TFL. It reminds us of a common sense way of thinking that is instilled in most people from the time they were young. It doesnt have to have code names or initials
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November 1, 2012, 11:54 PM | #38 |
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Just for clarification.
FBI stats for the top five most violent cities in the US with a population over 50,000 1)Camden NJ 2)Flint Mich. 3)Saginaw Mich. 4)Detroit Mich. 5)St. Louis FWIW...Flint Mich. still holds the dubious honor of being ranked for the 2nd consecutive year as holding the #1 spot for cities with a populace of 100,000 or more people. I don't think the thugs in Detroit/Flint Michigan much care whether the average Joe is carrying or not. Too, I have relatives/friends that are MSP that work in Detroit Metro(aka, 'the war zone' to most Mich. LE) and they will tell you that the thugs there would just as soon shoot at LE then anyone else that gets in their way. Last edited by shortwave; November 2, 2012 at 12:08 AM. |
November 2, 2012, 12:05 AM | #39 |
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Can someone please summarize (read: Cliff's Notes) this thread into 2 or 3 bullet points?
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November 2, 2012, 12:24 AM | #40 | |
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1) Situational awareness is very important. 2) Using common sense as to when and where we travel in our daily lives can greatly reduce our chances of encounters with BG's. Hmm...you said 2 or 3...okay 3) Practice SD shooting at distance's out to 50yds. You'll have to settle for 4 4) If you have to shoot in SD, you damn well must be able to prove your(or someone nearby) lives were in danger. How's that? |
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November 2, 2012, 12:49 AM | #41 |
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Awesome thanks for that! I agree on all counts, SA is probably the most important thing one can have.
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November 2, 2012, 08:25 AM | #42 |
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Risk Mitigation is as important as situational awareness. I don't go into bad neighborhoods or high crime areas. I don't get drunk at downtown bars at night and then stagger around looking for my car (dangerous on two fronts), yet many of our young people do similar or even riskier activities.
Some years ago, a friend and his fiancee attended a concert at a music hall in a major city. Rather than pay the $10 parking fee in a supervised parking deck, they decided to save the money and park for free about 8 blocks from the event center. After the concert, as they walked back to their car, they were attacked and beaten very badly. No robbery took place. An investigating police officer told them later that the assault was part of a gang initiation and that there have been quite a few similar incidents. In recent years these types of attacks have acquired a name "Knockout Kings." Afterward, the young couple each admitted that they had uneasy feelings about parking far away, but both of them buried or ignored those instincts, nor mentioned those concerns to each other that night. Situational awareness is equally important but unfortunately too many of us "civilized" people ignore our gut instincts and pretend that danger signals are not real. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Don't ignore what your "gut" is telling you. Last edited by Rifleman1952; November 2, 2012 at 10:33 AM. |
November 2, 2012, 09:23 AM | #43 |
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Well said rifleman
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November 2, 2012, 10:05 AM | #44 | |
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November 6, 2012, 05:50 AM | #45 |
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Situation awareness is so very important. Some adults are in a zone of their own, clueless!
SA is not just in a bad City, walking the street. For instance, many years ago (1968 visiting England, from Canada) two couples, my brother in law, my sister-in law, and my Wife, went out for supper. My pushy Sister in law, walked into the the Indian Restaurant, my Wife behind her, my clueless Brother in law bringing up the rear. I was parking the rental. These three adults missed the danger signs totally! The end result, me in a one on 4 fist fight (Brother in Law not involved) and due to the fact I am handy in a fight, we walked out in one piece. I sustained cut knuckles on my right hand. Visuals, no doorman (Bouncer) 4 late teens, early twenty scruffs, sitting in a booth, empty plates in front of them, looking about (run outs in waiting) the leader, easy to spot, making sure I saw him giving our two (very attractive) woman the kind of look that has rape in mind (or insult) helpful in leaving with out paying. A table near the booth we were showed to, three young people, drunk, loud. This part of Lancashire, UK, bad news! This was apparent to me in 30 seconds, my clueless companions, clueless! That's were SA is so important! |
November 6, 2012, 02:09 PM | #46 | |
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Foreforged said;
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November 17, 2012, 04:51 PM | #47 |
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Ego
Don't forget to let your ego at home. Your ego can get you in a lot of trouble, esp if you think because you're packing, you can afford to mouth off to someone. As a good Sister of the cloth told me in grade school...."a word to the wise"....it's better to say you're sorry or not say anything at all and slink away than to get in a urinating contest over something stupid and get into a situation your big mouth can't get you out of. 90% of all one's troubles are caused by one's big mouth, another word to the wise.
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November 19, 2012, 07:24 PM | #48 |
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Your brain is your weapon, everything else is just an accessory.
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