Looking for advice - Page 3

Jim243 · March 5, 2014, 10:28 AM

Quote:

I will be using this for hunting, of course, as well as long distance shooting..

Two different rifle types, in my opinion apples to oranges comparison.

Since I am unaware of any Polar Bears in Phoenix AZ or any Moose hunts, I tend to think the 308 would be sufficient for anything you are hunting there.

Since there are different problems with each type of use of the rifle, long distance shooting (wind and bullet drop), and hunting (terminal velocity and bullet construction and expansion) one that would be excellent for one type of use may not be good for the other type of use. Finding a rifle that does both without problems could tax your skill as a shooter.

Since most will do a lot more target shooting than hunting, it would pay to look to that type of rifle more so than one that will only be used for hunting. Along those lines the 308 will be cheaper to shoot than the 30-06.

If long range competition is your goal, then as mentioned before a lot of practice will be required, again 308 will be cheaper to become proficient with than 30-06. If the rifle will be sitting in the closet 11 months out of the year and taken out once or twice a year for hunting, then it really does not matter which caliber you get (only which will give you better terminal velocity at the distance you will hunt at).

Most of us purchase rifles for a specific purpose and have some for hunting and others for target or long range shooting. Some get used often and others very little.

Get the rifle you will enjoy and shoot the most.
Jim

RC20 · March 6, 2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

On the other hand, (and as much as I respect Brian's advise) I'd choose the .30-06, simply because I'm a curmudgeon.

There's a lot to be said for the .308, and some consider it one of America's best cartridges, and I own a couple of them, but when I'm reaching into the locker for the hunting rifles, the .30-06 gets the nod every time.

I would amend that a bit and pick it for nostalgia.

On the other hand for the OP mission that is not a nostalgic stroll down history lane the 308 would be a better choice I believe.

cajunfella · March 7, 2014, 09:52 AM

I recently purchased that exact rifle...Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in 308. I installed a DNZ one piece mount with a Zeiss 3.5x10x50 scope. I have only had the rifle for a week now but have not been able to get to the range with it yet. I adjusted the trigger to minimum pull and its super smooth. Hoping to get out to put some lead through it this weekend.

cajunfella · March 10, 2014, 09:24 AM

Took the new Savage Mode 12 out to the range on Saturday for an initial test run. Got it on paper then began working on a load. Had cartridges with 150 grain bullets and IMR 4064. Loads ranged from 44.0 grains to 46.0 grains in .5 grain increments. POI did vary slightly but all 5 loads were MOA at 100 yards. Best results were with the 45.0 grain load. Now to fine tune...

Art Eatman · March 10, 2014, 10:59 AM

If you don't handload, odds are that a .308 will work as well as the '06. This is particularly true for the common 22" barrels.

My own pet '06 has a #2 profile, 26" barrel. Based on the trajectory at my 500-yard range and the Sierra book's coefficients for their 150-grain bullets, I'm driving a 150-grain at about 3,100 ft/sec. And it's just under one MOA.

FWIW, a Sierra 180-grain SPBT has almost exactly the same trajectory.

The rifle, "fully dressed", weighs 9.5 pounds. I'm no studhoss, but I've done many a ten- to twelve-mile walking hunt in rugged mountain country with it.

All that said, by and large a .308 will average tighter groups than the '06 when it comes to paper punching. And the typical muzzle velocity of a 150-grain bullet is around 2,850 ft/sec or so. That's easily enough punch for whitetail to 400 yards; 500 if the shooting skill is there.

It's with larger animals and heavier bullets that the '06 has the advantage.

Bart B. · March 10, 2014, 12:41 PM

Velocity difference; .30-06 vs. .308 and you may be surprised what standard factory loads produce at SAAMI specs in 24 inch barrels. Check out the following on page 7 and 9:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...essure_CfR.pdf

Art Eatman · March 10, 2014, 07:44 PM

Sounds about right. An average of around 100 ft/sec advantage for the '06, which isn't worth bothering with. But as I've noted many times, most .308s come with 22" barrels or even less, and my '06 is 26".

And as has been noted many times, the advantage increases notably with 180-grain bullets.

Extreme specialization: Some three or four years ago, a couple of guys posted on THR about using 230-grain VLD bullets in '06s with 30" barrels. Claims of one MOA at 1,100 and 1,300 yards. It sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

Bart B. · March 10, 2014, 08:02 PM

David Tubb shot Sierra 250-gr Sierra HPMK's in his .308 Win Palma rifle back in 1988 to shoot the high score in the Palma Team tryouts. He told me those bullets left at 2150 fps from his 28 inch 1:8 twist barrel with bullets seated long for powder room in a long leade chamber. He and I shot together one day and it was neat watching those bullets arc higher than folks shooting 190's enroute to 1000 yards. Tested from his machine rest in Texas, he said it held 3/4 MOA at 1000 for at least 25 to 30 shots in a row.

I'vebeenduped · March 24, 2014, 04:45 PM

The good news is, the rifle is on the way! Thanks to all of you for your input. I am wondering if you could take time out of your busy day to give me your input on a scope for this rifle. I am seriously considering the Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...-1-moa-reticle
I really do look forward to your thoughts on this second matter. Thanks!

Art Eatman · March 24, 2014, 07:57 PM

Best to start a new thread for the scope.

March 24, 2014, 04:45 PM	#59
I'vebeenduped Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Location: AZ Posts: 202	Part two The good news is, the rifle is on the way! Thanks to all of you for your input. I am wondering if you could take time out of your busy day to give me your input on a scope for this rifle. I am seriously considering the Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP. http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...-1-moa-reticle I really do look forward to your thoughts on this second matter. Thanks! __________________ The natural state of man, the way G‑d created us, is to be happy. Look at children and you will see

March 7, 2014, 09:52 AM	#53
cajunfella Junior Member Join Date: March 6, 2014 Posts: 2	I recently purchased that exact rifle...Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in 308. I installed a DNZ one piece mount with a Zeiss 3.5x10x50 scope. I have only had the rifle for a week now but have not been able to get to the range with it yet. I adjusted the trigger to minimum pull and its super smooth. Hoping to get out to put some lead through it this weekend.

March 10, 2014, 09:24 AM	#54
cajunfella Junior Member Join Date: March 6, 2014 Posts: 2	Took the new Savage Mode 12 out to the range on Saturday for an initial test run. Got it on paper then began working on a load. Had cartridges with 150 grain bullets and IMR 4064. Loads ranged from 44.0 grains to 46.0 grains in .5 grain increments. POI did vary slightly but all 5 loads were MOA at 100 yards. Best results were with the 45.0 grain load. Now to fine tune...

March 10, 2014, 10:59 AM	#55
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If you don't handload, odds are that a .308 will work as well as the '06. This is particularly true for the common 22" barrels. My own pet '06 has a #2 profile, 26" barrel. Based on the trajectory at my 500-yard range and the Sierra book's coefficients for their 150-grain bullets, I'm driving a 150-grain at about 3,100 ft/sec. And it's just under one MOA. FWIW, a Sierra 180-grain SPBT has almost exactly the same trajectory. The rifle, "fully dressed", weighs 9.5 pounds. I'm no studhoss, but I've done many a ten- to twelve-mile walking hunt in rugged mountain country with it. All that said, by and large a .308 will average tighter groups than the '06 when it comes to paper punching. And the typical muzzle velocity of a 150-grain bullet is around 2,850 ft/sec or so. That's easily enough punch for whitetail to 400 yards; 500 if the shooting skill is there. It's with larger animals and heavier bullets that the '06 has the advantage.

March 10, 2014, 12:41 PM	#56
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Velocity difference; .30-06 vs. .308 and you may be surprised what standard factory loads produce at SAAMI specs in 24 inch barrels. Check out the following on page 7 and 9: http://www.saami.org/specifications_...essure_CfR.pdf

March 10, 2014, 07:44 PM	#57
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Sounds about right. An average of around 100 ft/sec advantage for the '06, which isn't worth bothering with. But as I've noted many times, most .308s come with 22" barrels or even less, and my '06 is 26". And as has been noted many times, the advantage increases notably with 180-grain bullets. Extreme specialization: Some three or four years ago, a couple of guys posted on THR about using 230-grain VLD bullets in '06s with 30" barrels. Claims of one MOA at 1,100 and 1,300 yards. It sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

March 10, 2014, 08:02 PM	#58
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	David Tubb shot Sierra 250-gr Sierra HPMK's in his .308 Win Palma rifle back in 1988 to shoot the high score in the Palma Team tryouts. He told me those bullets left at 2150 fps from his 28 inch 1:8 twist barrel with bullets seated long for powder room in a long leade chamber. He and I shot together one day and it was neat watching those bullets arc higher than folks shooting 190's enroute to 1000 yards. Tested from his machine rest in Texas, he said it held 3/4 MOA at 1000 for at least 25 to 30 shots in a row.

March 24, 2014, 07:57 PM	#60
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Best to start a new thread for the scope.