Backup Gun - just for argument

[Keltyke]

We all talk about a backup gun. It's usually smaller in caliber and capacity than our main gun.

Do we have this backwards?

Seems to me that, if you use all your rounds from your first gun, then you not only need more rounds, but you might need a bigger bullet, too.

Maybe a primary piece should be something like a Keltec P-32. If that doesn't stop the BG, THEN pull out the 1911s and .40s.

Whatcha think?

[Wyo Big Bore]

I've carried double G20's recently. Might as well be able to use the same magazine for both guns.

[CortJestir]

Seems to me that, if you use all your rounds from your first gun, then you not only need more rounds, but you might need a bigger bullet, too.

Don't forget that your primary can actually FTF, FTE, or otherwise not work - and this has nothing to do with caliber...

[tplumeri]

nah, if i plan to fire i want the biggest and best first. why take a chance the BG will survive the small cal and end up with an advantage?
just my 2c

[Jon-m]

hey, if it don't go down after a full magazine from a 1911 then its time for plan-B (RUNAWAY!!!)

[Dave85]

Last winter I developed the habit of carrying my little .38 snubbie in vertical zip pocket in my ski jackets. That made it much more accessible in my car or outdoors than my larger primary pistol, which, at least in those instances, would necessarily reverse the order of use of the two guns.

[Un_lucky]

I've always consedered a backup gun and a hideout gun 2 different things. My Kahr K-9 is a backup my 642 is a hideout. Primary is XD9 4inch.

[Edward429451]

Yes! Most people have it backwards! If you're jammed or dry, then the situation has escalated and shots have already been fired. Escalation = need bigger gun, easier to shoot well, and not down sizing!

[cold dead hands]

Yes! Most people have it backwards!

Not really.

If I know that I am walking into a situation/place where shooting might be the thing that saves my bacon then I want my most powerful option to be my first with the understanding that the second option is less powerful, but it makes the difference between life and death. After I run out of bullets I will continue to fight with my blade.

Optimal fighting tool? Not always but it beats bare hands and I will use those too if if means my existence is threatened.

An addendum needs to be made to the handgun rules...Never carry anything less than .30 caliber or if that isn't possible, never anything less than eight shots of .22 lr. And, always have a fixed blade or rapidly deployed folding blade for when you run out of ammo and you need to keep killing scumbags.

If I knew I "needed" to be armed (yet concealed) I would carry my Para P12 or Warthog in a shoulder holster, my J-frame sized Taurus .357 in my pocket and my Grendel P10 on my ankle.

Maximum shots with a reload (P14 mag) for the 1911 would bring me up to 42 bullets in this situation. If I am undergunning at that point, then it must have been my day to die.

[KyJim]

Using the larger caliber for a backup is like having Elvis back up the Jordanaires.

[orionengnr]

Gee, let's see.

I have Peyton Manning and Billy-Bob Blowhard in my line-up. Which one starts? And if you pick BBB, do you look at yourself afterward and say "Gee, I wonder why we lost 42-0?

Now, let's recalibrate. You are not talking about a football game; you are talking about your life.

A back-up is a fall-back plan. A Plan B, if you will. With luck, you will never have to execute Plan A, let alone Plan B.

Taken to it's natural conclusion...I'd hate for my headstone to read "He died with a slide-locked P-32 in his hand and a fully loaded 1911 in his holster"

[vytoland]

The first thing I'm going in with is my S&W 686-4PP with all six cylinders full of hot .357 magnum loads.

Step 2 call 911 so the meds & police can sweep up the remains

[Dwight55]

It also depends on where you are. Ohio is a must issue state for CHL's, . . . but it explicitely says one gun, . . . and from our local sheriff's point of view, . . . that is just exactly what it means, . . . one gun.

I would like to carry two when I go to the village, . . . but one is better than a sharp stick any day.

May God bless,
Dwight

[saspic]

originally posted by Wyo Big Bore

I've carried double G20's recently. Might as well be able to use the same magazine for both guns.

Cool! I thought I was the only one that did that. Are you using any 6" barrels? I have one 4.6" and one 6". And a spare mag.

I think it's great to carry two of the same, but some people just won't. However, these days the .357s and 9mms have gotten so small, no one should really have to carry a .380 or below anymore if they're serious.

Remember guys, if you can carry one, you can carry two.

[2afreedom]

"I think it's great to carry two of the same, but some people just won't. However, these days the .357s and 9mms have gotten so small, no one should really have to carry a .380 or below anymore if they're serious."

A BIG +1 to that. With the choices available today I don't see the need for anything smaller than 9mm or .38+p. The Kel Tec 9mm isn't much bigger than the .380 and it offers a much more powerful cartridge.

[Stevie-Ray]

As was said in so many words, I don't want to have to unload my U45CDP, let alone go for my P32. But I definitely will go for the .45 first and hope for a one-shot stop.

[AZAK]

My thoughts on this are the same as for bear defense:

Don't get into the situation if at all, and I mean in any way, possible to not be in it!!!

Use the absolutely biggest flamethrower possible if backed into a corner that you can not get out of in any other possible way.

Pray! Pray really hard! (Cause you're going to need it.)

[Wyo Big Bore]

I thought I was the only one that did that. Are you using any 6" barrels?

I don't see a need to use a 6" barrel. I don't modify my guns as a general rule. The G20 shoots well out of the box. If I need a 6" barrel for self defense, I'm hoping that I can use a different weapon from the arsenal.

[Dave85]

A BIG +1 to that. With the choices available today I don't see the need for anything smaller than 9mm or .38+p. The Kel Tec 9mm isn't much bigger than the .380 and it offers a much more powerful cartridge.

Size-wise, you guys might be right. Problem is, the small-frame .357 Mag. and tiny 9mm guns have too much recoil for some to handle. Not all of us are average-size or larger men in good physical condition.

[Keltyke]

Problem is, the small-frame .357 Mag. and tiny 9mm guns have too much recoil for some to handle.

My wife cannot handle a sub gun in anything larger than a .32 ACP. So, that's what she carries. It's fine to say "carry this, carry that", but some people just can't. A blanket statement like

I don't see the need for anything smaller than 9mm or .38+p

just doesn't work in the real world. A .32 will kill, too, ya know.

[jbrown50]

I always pocket carry a Kahr PM9. It becomes my 'backup gun' in the rare instances that I carry a bigger gun IWB or OWB/open carry. My primary carry will usually be either a Glock 27/33 but on occasion I've even carried a spare PM9 as a primary IWB. In some potentially threatening situations the backup gun can switch roles and become the primary since I can have my hand on the gun in my pocket without drawing any undue attention

[2afreedom]

Gerald-I was not saying that NO ONE has the need for anything smaller than .38 or 9mm. Some people (including my mom) can't handle that much recoil. What I should have said is that for adult men with no health problems like myself I can't justify carrying anything smaller. Please don't be offended by what I wrote previously. While I realize the smaller calibers are lethal no one has ever wished they had a less effective caliber in a firefight. Of course it all has to be balanced with comfort and the ability to actually carry the weapon. For me the answer has become the Glock 27. YMMV.

[Keltyke]

Please don't be offended by what I wrote previously.

Not offended at all.

I simply didn't want someone considering carrying a .32 or even .22/.25 to be discouraged or perhaps decide to not carry anything. I wanted it to be clear that ANY gun is better than NONE. Actually, for women who will never be in a "street fight" situation, but who want a small, light, perfectly concealable weapon, the .32 and .25 auto isn't a bad idea. They're not a "gun the BG down from 50 feet" weapon. They're an "up close and personal", "get off me" gun. Shove the muzzle of a P-32 in the BG's belly from a foot away and pull the trigger six times and I'll guarantee you he'll stop.

However...

I agree 100% that a .25 or .32 is not the ideal PD weapon, and I 100% agree that, if you can handle/conceal a larger caliber, you should carry it.

I've often said I believe the 9mm to be the perfect compromise round in size, weight, and power. That being said, I regularly carry a .40 S&W. Why? Because I can. I'm a big guy who wears loose clothing, so I can hide a big gun.

No gun is perfect for every situation or person. Each individual has to decide what they can reasonably carry and use.

[imthegrumpyone]

I say if you can't get the job done with one gun I don't know if a Bug is your answer to your problem.

[buzz_knox]

I say if you can't get the job done with one gun I don't know if a Bug is your answer to your problem.

You've never had a weapon malfunction on you, have you? I've had two absolutely reliable weapons go down during drills. One was a Glock 17 that somehow had an empty case get inverted and drop into the chamber primer first as the slide closed. The other was a 228 which ended up with debris making its way into the firing pin channel and freezing it up. Add in the Series 80 I watched fail due to the firing pin safety mechanism coming apart (but that never happens people say), the Colt CCO whose slide came apart (fixed by Colt once, only to happen again), and other malfunctions, and I find it easy to understand why a backup is so heavily recommended by those who carry for a living or teach those who do. The backup provides a certain degree of certainty that you'll have one that works. Being able to draw the second gun faster than you can reload is only a tangential benefit.

It's important to realize that should you ever have to draw your weapon in self-defense, statistically you are the winner in the "worst day of your life" lottery. Things will only get more pearshaped if you have to actually pull the trigger. I fully anticipate that if those two statistically unlikely events happen on the same occasion, that will be the time that Mr. Murphy will take the opportunity to crap all over whatever flawlessly reliable weapon I have chosen to defend myself with.