1911 for concealed carry

[BlueTrain]

By all means do whatever makes you happy but you miss the point. How long is hunting season compared with handgun carry season? The sarcasm is there because people have a habit of assuming away certain issues like safety. But did I not say that I believe carrying a Colt Government Model or a copy "cocked and locked" is perfectly safe?

Some of my rifles had very visible hammers, too, by the way.

[double bogey]

Extended safeties. If you have an extended safety, most thumbreak holsters will move the safety to the fire position. I have 4 different holsters that will do this. Very frustrating. Never happened with my colt CCO, but both of my Kimbers move it.

[AK103K]

Its not just extended safeties, and/or thumb break holsters. I routinely found the thumb safeties on any 1911 I carried, off at the end of the day.

[JJ45]

BlueTrain, I agree 100%, there is a difference but as I said, most of the lever rifle hunters I know carry on half cock, if it's a hammer gun. I also have lever rifles and one, a Savage 99 , I carry cocked with the safety on and it's not visible.There are also shotguns with visible hammers.

When it comes to gun safety for any weapon, it's "whats between the ears" that counts more than anything. if the 4 rules, as most of us know what they are, are followed then all will be well whether there is a safety on the gun or not.

I also carry a 1911 cocked and locked. My point was, for the UNINFORMED, the pistol has a more ominous look with the hammer cocked (perceptions) when in reality it is not less safe than any other form of carry. Of course, when carried concealed, who sees it?

[BlueTrain]

If only we followed all the rules all the time--and if everyone else did, too.

But you are probably correct in that a cocked and locked .45 auto is perceived as more ominous, the same way an individual with an openly carried handgun is seen to be more ominous or threatening. I have even read of photographers wanting someone to have cocked revolver in their holster for photographic purposes.

[WC145]

By all means do whatever makes you happy but you miss the point. How long is hunting season compared with handgun carry season? The sarcasm is there because people have a habit of assuming away certain issues like safety.

The length of hunting season vs how long/often you carry a handgun isn't the issue. My point, which you can't seem to grasp, was that people who are uncomfortable with a cocked and locked 1911 but don't have an issue with carrying a loaded, "cocked and locked" rifle or shotgun when hunting aren't seeing the similarities between the two - clearly you're not. By pointing out that both are in essentially the same condition (chambered, cocked, safety on), they may feel less apprehensive about the idea of a 1911 in C1.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Its not just extended safeties, and/or thumb break holsters. I routinely found the thumb safeties on any 1911 I carried, off at the end of the day.

Oh my God.. I too have failed to mention that as well.

It's happened to me about 8 times.

[BlueTrain]

Well, I'm still not so sure. After thinking about it some more, especially after someone mentioning that if it's concealed, it won't bother anyone, I'm almost certain that the sight of a cocked and locked .45 auto doesn't bother most people any more than the sight of any other handgun carried openly by someone who isn't a lawman. In fact, you'd probably have to look very closely to even see the difference.

One reason I've been interested in this thread is because I'm considering purchasing another full-size Colt Government model. I somehow am without one at the moment. I'm leaning towards .38 Super (it's so hard to be different anymore) but I have magazines and ammunition to spare for all calibers. Logic will not enter into this purchase, only desires.

[JJ45]

BlueTrain, if logic DID enter into it you would probably forget the .38 Super 1911 and get a striker fire pistol with a long trigger squeeze, thumb safety, a mag disconnect, and LCI....

Technically speaking, forget the"what's between the ears" thing, this is the safest style of pistol without question

[Tactical Jackalope]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

[BlueTrain]

Who's being sarcastic?

Regarding my desire for a full-sized Colt, if I were logical about it, I'd get a stainless steel model in 9mm (because I have more 9mm ammo than I have room for--almost). The one and only place I'm looking has just about all varieties of the current production, including a full-size lightweight Government Model in .45. This is one of those theoretical last gun I'm ever gonna buy sort of thing.

I've had just about every variety handgun I can think of, from Colt Single Action Army to a Registered .357 Magnum on the revolver side and on the auto side, many things from a Mauser C96 to a Walter P99. I'm like many of you in owning a lot of guns, only just not that many all at once. Only a few would I really, really like to own again. The fun part of having them and shooting them never seemed to have been related to either cost or quality.

The only pistol I have at the moment that actually has a thumb safety is an S&W Bodyguard .380. The other two are 9mm pistols, one striker fired with a decocker, the other a normal DA/SA hammer-fired, also with a decocker.

Did I ever tell you about the 9mm revolvers I've had?

[BlueTrain]

Okay, as long as we're on the subject, let me ask you this:

I've been looking only at Colts and only at the "plain" ones. The upscale versions go anywhere from twenty percent to over a hundred percent more, as you probably know. Cost is always a consideration. But Colt isn't the only one out there and used Colts are very scarce where I go.

How do you think the Remington 1911 compares with the equivalent Colt? It costs less, which is a plus. They place I patronize only has an enhanced version but they'd probably order a base model with black sidewalls for me if I asked real nice. It only comes in .45 auto but that's not an issue.

Just the Remington, though. Don't tell me about anyone else's.

[JJ45]

I don't own a Remington but I do own Colt and Springfield 45 1911s.

IMO, I think I paid for the Colt "name" more than any great advantage in quality. About 200 rounds into the Colt, the plunger tube came unstaked. I also had to replace the grip screw nuts pretty quick. This can happen with any 1911 platform but I haven't had any such problems with the Springfield and they both get shot equally. (I know you said no others but I have no other 1911s to compare the Colt to)

American made is also important to me and I think the Remington is, how could a respected, old line US company have it foreign made?

Then there is MIM parts, cast vs forged slide, etc. if thats important to you. The Remington probably has more of these manufacturing techniques but I don't know for sure or even if it matters much as far as shooting life. Opinions vary.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Constantine

Oh my God.. I too have failed to mention that as well.

It's happened to me about 8 times.

It's never happened to me, and none of the people I know who carry 1911s have ever mentioned it happening to them.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by BlueTrain

How do you think the Remington 1911 compares with the equivalent Colt? It costs less, which is a plus.

Remington should never have entered the 1911 market. They may have fixed it by now, but when the R1 first came out the machining on what is supposed to be the frame bridge was so bad it looked like something chopped out by hand with dull chisels. By contrast, most 1911 folks agree that the quality of the pistols Colt is producing today is about the best they've ever done.

No contest.

[Dufus]

Interesting posts to say the least (for the most part).

I used to carry one of my Series 70s. I have three, plus an Ithaca and Remington Rand.

I thought about what the circumstances would be if I ever was unfortunate to be involved in an incident. The authorities would almost guaranteed to take my handgun for "evidence". I don't like to think of what my chances would be in getting it returned. I do not want to face losing any of them.

So, I bought a $300 weapon (S&W) for my new EDC. I won't have heartbreak in losing a $300 handgun if that were the case.

Just my thoughts.

[AK103K]

How do you think the Remington 1911 compares with the equivalent Colt?

The only way to know with any of them, is to shoot the snot out of them and see how they do. 1911's are notorious for needing help, right out of the box. That was the main reason I finally gave up on them. Even the Colts got to be annoying, although they did work fine, right out of the box. It was them getting cheap with the plastic parts and all that really bugged me. I was buying new guns, and still had to upgrade them, right out of the box, to suit me.

Ive owned close to 40 1911's over the years, and the only ones I would carry, were my Colts and GI guns. When I first started carrying a gun, Colt and GI guns, were the only American made 1911's to be had. Star and Llama were around, but not even in the race. I had a couple of Stars, and they were good guns, but not at all compatible. You can have the Llamas.

The more people started to make 1911's from the 80's on, the worse they seemed to get. Springfield was pretty good back in the 80's, when they were still following the original specs, but by the 90's, they were running with their own specs, and they were junk. I still wont buy another, and that goes for their rifles too (unless they are pre 90's).

It's never happened to me, and none of the people I know who carry 1911s have ever mentioned it happening to them.

It happened to me all the time, and all my guns were stock, none of the aftermarket add on stuff. Holsters had some impact, and an active lifestyle added to it, as did some safeties that needed the detent drilled deeper to make them more positive. Even after that, I still found them off.

Its no big deal really, especially if youre using a holster, and as long as youre aware of the issue. Without a holster, would be another issue. People make such a big deal about Glocks, when to me, the 1911 with its safety off, is ten fold scarier.

Another thing you need to check and verify regularly, is the grip safety. Ive had a couple of NIB guns (Kimber and Springfield), that had inoperable grip safeties, right out of the box. You constantly hear about the redundant safety thing, but they are only as good as the shooter is safe, and should never be relied on.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

in 8 years of alternating betwenn a defender with extended wilson safety, and a wesson cbob with extended safety in a sparks vm2 and or nexus, I have never, not one single time, found the thumb safety off. I have had it happen with my 938 twice in pocket carry,but never on a 1911

[AK103K]

Carry one and live with it long enough, and youll see it happen.

I readily admit, I havent led a sedentary, low keyed lifestyle. Ive always been very physically active in my daily activities, and that may be some of the reason I saw it more. As I said earlier, I also carried a 1911 every waking moment for 25 some odd years, not just now and then or if I thought it might be needed. Its was always there, regardless of activity.

Mine started pretty much from day one, with a Colt GM in a Bianchi Pistol Pocket. The thumb break strap in that case was the villain (havent used a belt, or most other holster types, with a thumb break, since). Cut that off, and I was still finding it off, although not nearly as much. Used a few others, including Galco Royal Guards with my Commanders for a number of years, and same thing. Even my Blade Tech, with a sweat shield didnt stop it.

Just because it was off wasnt really any problem. It was in a holster, and no worse than anything else thats cocked in a holster (how it got there that way is a whole other topic). I think some get overly anal about things mechanical, when anything mechanical can fail without warning, and the brain is still, and always will be, the master safety. If youre casual or careless in your gun handling, safety(s) or not, youre going to have trouble at some point.

I went from 1911's, to SIG's with decockers, to Glocks, with basically nothing, and have not had a problem with any of them. 99.9% of any of it is your gun handling.

[BlueTrain]

Excellent posts, Mr. AK103.

I don't see how a holster with a thumb-break retraining strap could be an issue, since (I think) that it would only fit with the hammer back with the strap under the hammer or else with the strap over the hammer in which case the hammer wouldn't be back; that is not cocked and locked. Either way the thumb safety really doesn't matter.

I used to worry about the magazine being released by the holster being pressed against the magazine release button but I never had it happen. But the old GI holster for a .45 auto seemed to be made so that couldn't possibly happen anyway.

I owned a Springfield Armory 1911 .38 Super and also a Thompson .45, I think it was. Both were perfectly satisfactory. Also a Colt Lightweight Commander and a Colt Lightweight Officer's ACP. The Commander was literally a perfect gun for what it was, the Officer's ACP was very good, too, but it was something else to shoot. The Springfield Armory had a particularly stiff trigger. I also had a stainless 1991 Colt. Very practical but I didn't like stainless for that model. It's still available and I'll be staring at one this afternoon.

I thought the earlier Star automatics were all good pistols, probably because they worked just like Colts, except for the lack of a grip safety. But they tended to break somewhere or come loose. I handled issue .45 autos in the army (we even had Colt pocket autos in the arms room) but I never owned one until probably fifteen years later. I'm still trying to make up my mind and today will probably be the day of decision.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I readily admit, I havent led a sedentary, low keyed lifestyle. Ive always been very physically active in my daily activities, and that may be some of the reason I saw it more.

Thaaaaaat's why we agree on 99% of things gun related. I'm the same way. Biking, hiking, running, jumping, etc.

I went from 1911's, to SIG's with decockers, to Glocks, with basically nothing, and have not had a problem with any of them. 99.9% of any of it is your gun handling.

This too! I went from the same thing. 1911's, to SIG, to Glock.. A bunch of back and forth between Glock and SIG. But the rust I've been getting on the SIG's as of late is insane. So this year I've been mainly Glock. With some HK's to try out. Which are still being tried out. Gotta customize a few things here and there to make it Papa Constantine friendly.


SIG + Glock = HK. lol... kinda...

[AK103K]

I don't see how a holster with a thumb-break retraining strap could be an issue, since (I think) that it would only fit with the hammer back with the strap under the hammer or else with the strap over the hammer in which case the hammer wouldn't be back; that is not cocked and locked. Either way the thumb safety really doesn't matter.

The portion of the strap near the fastener is what was contacting the thumb safety and knocking it off. I tried to cut out a notch in the offending portion, but to no avail.

I used to worry about the magazine being released by the holster being pressed against the magazine release button but I never had it happen.

Never had it happen with a 1911, but it happened a lot with my HK P7M13 the short while I did carry it. Used to find the mag that was in the gun, on the front seat when I got out, and sometimes it would wait until I got out, and I would hear it clatter to the ground.

Seat belt was the culprit in that case, that, and the holster didnt cover it, and allowed it to happen. Unfortunately, there were very few holsters available for it at the time, and the two I tried, allowed it to happen.

I thought the earlier Star automatics were all good pistols, probably because they worked just like Colts, except for the lack of a grip safety. But they tended to break somewhere or come loose.

I had good luck with my Stars, and for as much as they were shot, nothing ever broke. Finding grips and mags were a problem with the Model P's though.

I'm the same way. Biking, hiking, running, jumping, etc.

Not to mention work, and a few other things.

FT gun carrying has always been an ongoing learning experience. So many innovations (reinventions) since the Flintstones days.

Figuring out how to carry things, was/is always interesting with some activities, but especially back in the "pre internet" days. Now days, with all thats available gear wise, if you cant figure out how carry anything you want, youre doing something wrong.

One thing that always had me wonderng, is why no one else I knew or talked to (other than the boy I was working with at the time), had the rust and constantly wet leather holster issues (summer) we were having. Came to realize, we were the ones working physically outside, year round, when they were living in a controlled environment. That, and they didnt "always" carry, we did.

FT/PT does make for different perspectives when it comes to carrying/wearing a gun.

I went from the same thing. 1911's, to SIG, to Glock.. A bunch of back and forth between Glock and SIG. But the rust I've been getting on the SIG's as of late is insane.

I never had any rust issues with my SIG's, my 1911's on the other hand, were a constant problem until I found hard chrome and kydex. My Glocks are for the most part, impervious. The only thing Ive ever had rust on a Glock, was the slide stop, after the finish wore off.

[double bogey]

Analyzing the safety issue, I find that it is caused by movement in the holster a large percentage of the time. I have modified a couple of holsters, still happens. Now I carry with a non thumb break, but worry about retention.
Like I mentioned, it never happened with my Colt CCO.

I believe Galco states their holsters are meant for de-cocked carry only. I would never carry a 1911 uncocked.
I am planning on trying the King Tuk model, as I like the one I use for my Glock 23. Need larger pants to carry iwb, not a problem as I lost about 30 lbs. a couple years back so I have several pairs of larger pants.

[The Big D]

The 1911 has arguably the best trigger in all of handgunning. They're thin. They fit me well with a medium trigger. I have other, smaller Guns but if I'm carrying a big gun it's a 1911.

[Hunter Customs]

I started carrying a 1911 in 1968, carried one all over "Hells Half Acre" in Vietnam cocked and locked stuck in the waist band of my trousers, never once did I pull that gun and find the safety in the off position.

After my military days I still carry a 1911, always cocked and locked sometimes stuck in my waist band no holster, sometimes in a good holster OWB on my strong side hip, again not one time have I pulled my pistol and found the safety in the off position.

I do not want any extended controls on my carry guns, I like my carry guns to be like the 1911 in the above picture.