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Old March 2, 2013, 12:40 AM   #26
breakingcontact
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Different law enforcement, and military outfits may have semi (USMC) or pump based upon a ton of factors.

What's best for one situation may not be best universally.

If you prefer a pump, great. Know their limitations and how to clear them if you jam it up, they aren't jam proof and when they jam they can jam real good. Don't have a false confidence that they won't/can't jam nor that modern semis are jam-o-matics.
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:52 AM   #27
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Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

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Originally Posted by breakingcontact View Post
Different law enforcement, and military outfits may have semi (USMC) or pump based upon a ton of factors.

What's best for one situation may not be best universally.

If you prefer a pump, great. Know their limitations and how to clear them if you jam it up, they aren't jam proof and when they jam they can jam real good. Don't have a false confidence that they won't/can't jam nor that modern semis are jam-o-matics.
My point was that saying pumps are used simply because they're cheap is gross oversimplification. I have confidence that if I dropped my 500 in the mud (been there, done that) it will still go bang when I rack and pull the trigger. A semi? I wouldn't be as confident. Given the harsh conditions of the Alaska wilderness, especially during rainy season and winter, I'm guessing this is what my friend was referring to, not that semis are jam o matics. Besides, he shot a Benelli Super Black Eagle for water fowl.
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Old March 2, 2013, 04:25 AM   #28
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Heres my $0.02 worth. I won't take any shot gun to a "dog fight" until I've shot 49 out of 50 on the skeet range, and 50 out of 50 on the trap range. With the same gun, same shot size (#8), and the same choke (Mod), and the same barrel (26" or 28").

Then I would pattern it with; at least #4 buck to 00, and go from there...
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:57 PM   #29
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Like to hear from LE, but believe a factor in selection is reliability of a weapon that is passed around from officer to officer and may not be kept in as good a condition as a personal weapon.
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Old March 2, 2013, 03:54 PM   #30
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Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

In theory LEOs train a lot. Or they did before their competency/safety was ran through the budget and they get their training budgets cut. Interesting, if they were paid less, they could train more. But I digress.

A properly trained LEO...who are mostly men and hopefully in good shape and/or good sized may be served very well by a pump shotgun. Same could be said of a civilian who really trains. Whereas a smaller person (often female), person who is in less athletic shape, people who cannot handle the recoil of the pump shotgun, people who train far less may very well be better served by a semi auto shotgun.

These debates about "what's best?" are something else. We too often pick our favorite based upon what the majority do, what those we look up to do (cops have pumps, Marines have semis...pick your team), what we think is cool, favorite gun in Call of Duty (or whatever is the cool game now on Atari) while ignoring that different groups and different individuals within those groups may be served very well by different weapons.

I dont like revolvers. I like S&W semi autos but I won't say they are better than revolvers for everyone then run down all opinions/experiences that different from my view. I don't like Glocks but I don't spend time railing against them, they are good. Just not what I prefer.

So i guess to get to the point after whatever it was I wrote above...semi or pump, which one is better? Depending upon the user and circumstance, either could be better. I prefer semi-auto shotguns but my next may be a pump. Not because the semis are unreliable (they are reliable), but because I recognize the benefits of the pump in some situations for some people.

Psychology of the tribe meets consumerism plus internet wisdom. That's what too many of these threads reveal.

This isn't an attack aimed at anyone here. Just a general observation. There is a lot of good advice based on experience and knowledge here and I appreciate that and you all. (Wipes single tear) -out
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Old March 2, 2013, 10:10 PM   #31
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Which is best, pump or semi?
Both, of course.
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Old March 3, 2013, 04:42 AM   #32
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12 Gauge, of course
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:26 AM   #33
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Love my M590A1!
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:35 AM   #34
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Anything made by benelli
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Old March 3, 2013, 05:30 PM   #35
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Watched a matchup between the Benelli M4 and Mossberg 590 on Triggers 2 days ago. Both shooters fired a preset target course and were timed to completion. Pump was 1 second off semi.....I really do not think it's as much about semi or pump as it is about the operator. Practice should iron out most of the issues so go with whatever you feel most comfortable with or just want the most.
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Old March 3, 2013, 06:36 PM   #36
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I can easily afford either and still prefer the pump, especially for rapid load selection drills.
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:18 PM   #37
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if you have 1700 to spend on an quality HD shotgun from a well known company.... there isant much else to say other than Benelli M4....yes, a one who has trained with a pump can be just as leathal as a person with a semi as far as being able to cycle rounds down range, but for the average person a semi is going to be a better choice IMO.....love my 870 pump guns, trust them with my life, but the M4 is what i keep at arms reach when i sleep...
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:27 PM   #38
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One reason to pick a pump for HD is not being mentioned--the absolute heart-stopping fear that rushes through a low-life criminal's soul when he hears the unmistakable racking of a pump shotgun that's getting ready to send him to the "other side".
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:55 PM   #39
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My 500 Mossberg Mariner, It is extremely dependable. None of my other shotguns are considered tacticle. Someday I would like to purchase a Mossberg 930 or something similar.
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:05 PM   #40
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Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

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Originally Posted by Hillshooter View Post
One reason to pick a pump for HD is not being mentioned--the absolute heart-stopping fear that rushes through a low-life criminal's soul when he hears the unmistakable racking of a pump shotgun that's getting ready to send him to the "other side".
Oh no...you went there...
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Old March 5, 2013, 04:34 AM   #41
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I prefer a pump to an auto loader in shotguns. A pump is what I used growing up when I hunted. Now that I am an LEO. A pump is what is issued to me. Muscle memory has a lot to do with it as does being familar with the battery/manual of arms.
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Old March 5, 2013, 04:48 AM   #42
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pump

I say pump even though I love my autos (mostly Browning over the years). It's one thing to have a malfunction in the duck blind and quite another to have a malfunction in a defense of life or property situation.

I've personally been eyeing this one for a while:

http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-...p#.UTW-0-jz6po

Having said this, unless you train with it, you won't be proficient (especially a pump).

Just my .02.

Joe
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:32 PM   #43
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I have been shooting a Remington 1100 for many years. I have never had a malfunction. I don't buy the argument that SA is less reliable than a pump action. As a matter of fact I have never had a malfuntion in my M1 carbine, SKS, or Garand, for that matter. I believe that an excellent SA design (e.g., Garand) is not at all inferior to any pump action design in terms of reliability. If one prefers a pump, fine - personally, I'll take a SA in a shotgun.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:05 PM   #44
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Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

Get the best of both worlds - the Benelli M3. You can switch from semi to pump at will.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:23 PM   #45
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Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

^that^ kind of goes against one of the main components of training for the fight (consistency) does it not?
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:03 PM   #46
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Any reliable shotgun will do, if the SHOOTER will do. Some makes/models 'speak' to a given person more than others - find one you like, buy two of them and set them up the same way, get some professional training with it (Louis Awerbuck, Tom Givens, John Farnam, Randy Cain...) and drive on.

I shoot older model (pre-magazine tube dimple) 870 Express guns by choice, the inT3rW3bZ would have you believe they are rust prone pieces of MIM-infested junk, which may have something to do with continuing opportunities to buy them for $175 or so in good used condition and set them up as desired. I took Louis Awerbuck's shotgun refresher class this past summer with one of them, and had another (the one I used in the original 2005 class) as a spare in the truck. Imagine that, it ran almost 300 rounds in one day with no problems, including some interesting variations of the Rolling Thunder drill - Express guns are not supposed to be able to do that, according to current wisdom.

My favorite semi of the half dozen models I've tried is an FN SLP, FWIW...
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Old March 5, 2013, 11:14 PM   #47
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Either as long as you learn how to make it go and it proves reliable with your chosen loads.
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