.308 groups @ 520 yds using Parvi 168gr match

mikeg22003 · February 11, 2009, 12:22 AM

i just started got permission to move me target out to 520 yards from the farmer. i have a Savage .308 with acu trigger. this was my first day and i got to the point where i was putting 4 to 5 shots in about a 3 no bigger than 4 inch group. is this pretty good ? I was using the 168gr parvi match ammo it is like 17 bucks for 20 (not bad at all) is this the best i am going to get out of factory ammo should i be happy with that or how tight could i get my groups as just a average shooter.
thanks

maestro pistolero · February 11, 2009, 04:02 AM

I'd be pretty happy with that. Nice shooting.

flippycat · February 11, 2009, 04:20 AM

Your happiness should depend on what your goal is for shooting in that group.

I think it would be impossible for anyone though to know if that is the best the factory ammo could of performed without knowing the conditions and variables in which the ammo was fired in.

Me personally, if I did that, I would be happy as I do not need to or have practiced to, hit a target in a 4 inch group at a little over a quarter mile away. The max I have ever practiced at is 100 yards and that grouping would make me happy there also. But then again that was me and even when I practiced that, I had no real purpose in doing so....so I was happy regardless lol.

backwoodschemist · February 11, 2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

"I just started got permission to move me target out to 520 yards from the farmer. I have a Savage .308 with acu trigger. This was my first day and I got to the point where I was putting 4 to 5 shots in about a 3 no bigger than 4 inch group. Is this pretty good? I was using the 168gr privi match ammo it is like 17 bucks for 20 (not bad at all) is this the best I am going to get out of factory ammo should I be happy with that or how tight could I get my groups as just a average shooter.
Thanks"

- mikeg22003

Hi Mike,

First day, 520 yards, 3"- 4" groups with factory ammo, is that good??
Hell yes.

Theoretically that would translate into ~0.5-0.75" (so .5-.75 MOA) groups at 100 yards, BUT you have to add in windage and mirage at long range. So at 100 yards, we would expect a one-hole group. (~0.3MOA)

As an average shooter, you should not expect to groups to get any tighter than 3"-4" at that range. A 3MPH crosswind at that range will push the bullet 1MOA or ~5", at 4MPH the windage is 1.38MOA or ~7” In other words a windage change of 1MPH will open the group by 2" at 520 yards.

Here is a little Excel file that might be handy.

http://www.jacksonrifles.com/ballistics.htm

What are you running for a scope? Bipod?

Is that a savage 10FP, or 12FV? Barrel length?

I would recommend you buy all of the Privi Match ammo you can get your hands on.

Then try to shoot another 4" 5 shot group at 520 yards and see if you can do it.

Good luck,
BWC

mikeg22003 · February 11, 2009, 10:13 AM

it is a savage model 10 (with accu trigger)
i am using a Konus m40 pro 4.5 X 16 scope
and a harris bipod. we are shooting of of a table in my
friends house out the window ( its to cold outside)

i went up 108 clicks and left about 8-9 clicks we has a 6mph wind
( that is at 1/8th inch clicks)

john in jax · February 11, 2009, 04:23 PM

Heck yeah I'd be happy with that kind of group!

As mentioned above, buy a bunch of that privi partisan ammo - your gun obviously likes it A LOT.

glocktoys · December 17, 2009, 10:10 PM

great at 520 hope to get my lr-308 to shoot that

preventec47 · December 18, 2009, 06:55 AM

You are joking with us... Right ?
small groups, cheap factory ammo, first try, rookie first day
AND now he tells us there was 6 mph wind ? ? ?

Yea, I think this guy is pulling our leg.

Bart B. · December 18, 2009, 07:01 AM

4 shots into 4 inches at 520 yards is a really good thing. If every 4-shot group's no bigger than 4 inches at 520 yards, then it's a marvelous thing.

I'm not intending to rain on your parade but what you've done is a decent indicator that you, the rifle and ammo did all the right stuff four times. Proving it to be something one can count on all the time means you gotta do it every time.

Below's a success rate graph showing the chances of a group's number of shots representing what will happen with all groups fired:

Try your rifle and ammo two or three more times at 520 yards with 4-shot groups. Whatever the results are will be a better indicator. Especially if you overlay each of the five 4-shot groups such that the aiming point for each one's at the same place, then you'll have a 20-shot composite to evaluate what the hardware (rifle+sights+ammo) and software (you and your shooting technique) do most of the time.

5whiskey · December 18, 2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Especially if you overlay each of the five 4-shot groups such that the aiming point for each one's at the same place, then you'll have a 20-shot composite to evaluate what the hardware (rifle+sights+ammo) and software (you and your shooting technique) do most of the time.

You're really better off (scientifically) sticking with the average of the groups instead of trying to do the extreme spread by combining all targets. The reason why is slight differences in shooting positions that effect the natural point of aim. Also, factor in size of the bullseye. He may have a 3" bull for his POA. He could line up slightly different between each group, which could result in at least a couple of inches of group variable (with that size of target at that distance).

I don't really buy into the theory of the 20 round group by sticking all of your targets together. That factors in variables that the shooter himself adds, but is not a result of poor technique. At 100 yards, obviously, these factors wouldn't make a huge difference. At 500 though? Plus a 1 mph difference in wind between groups would show in the total group size unless he adjusted PERFECTLY every time. These aren't factors that are fair to pin on the inherent accuracy of the rifle. Shooting 20 round groups from a vise at a 100 yards (to limit the effect of environmental factors) is a much better method to scientifically determine the spread of the rifle. Or do a bang up job and average the groups he's already posted(as long as there are no extreme variables between each group).

BTW, I've always believed the reason why that extreme spread falls off so dramatically is not the rifle itself, but the manner in which the rifle is being held. Be it by vise or human. After all, why not be as critical as the repeatability of the vise as we are on the repeatability of the rifle. Some food for thought

.

Jimro · December 18, 2009, 02:55 PM

Note the lot number on your Prvi Partizan ammo and by a LOT of that lot.

Jimro

Palmetto-Pride · December 18, 2009, 03:21 PM

Just curious as to what range your scope is zeroed @ and how high above the center of the bore it is mounted?

February 11, 2009, 12:22 AM	#1
mikeg22003 Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Posts: 13	.308 groups @ 520 yds using Parvi 168gr match i just started got permission to move me target out to 520 yards from the farmer. i have a Savage .308 with acu trigger. this was my first day and i got to the point where i was putting 4 to 5 shots in about a 3 no bigger than 4 inch group. is this pretty good ? I was using the 168gr parvi match ammo it is like 17 bucks for 20 (not bad at all) is this the best i am going to get out of factory ammo should i be happy with that or how tight could i get my groups as just a average shooter. thanks

February 11, 2009, 04:20 AM	#3
flippycat Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 213	Your happiness should depend on what your goal is for shooting in that group. I think it would be impossible for anyone though to know if that is the best the factory ammo could of performed without knowing the conditions and variables in which the ammo was fired in. Me personally, if I did that, I would be happy as I do not need to or have practiced to, hit a target in a 4 inch group at a little over a quarter mile away. The max I have ever practiced at is 100 yards and that grouping would make me happy there also. But then again that was me and even when I practiced that, I had no real purpose in doing so....so I was happy regardless lol. __________________ Basics VS Marlboros both will kill you one just tastes better Ohios Firearm Classifieds profirearm.com Last edited by flippycat; February 11, 2009 at 04:34 AM.

February 11, 2009, 10:13 AM	#5
mikeg22003 Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Posts: 13	savage it is a savage model 10 (with accu trigger) i am using a Konus m40 pro 4.5 X 16 scope and a harris bipod. we are shooting of of a table in my friends house out the window ( its to cold outside) i went up 108 clicks and left about 8-9 clicks we has a 6mph wind ( that is at 1/8th inch clicks)

February 11, 2009, 04:23 PM	#6
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	Heck yeah I'd be happy with that kind of group! As mentioned above, buy a bunch of that privi partisan ammo - your gun obviously likes it A LOT. __________________ America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

December 18, 2009, 02:55 PM	#11
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Note the lot number on your Prvi Partizan ammo and by a LOT of that lot. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 11, 2009, 04:02 AM	#2
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	I'd be pretty happy with that. Nice shooting.

December 17, 2009, 10:10 PM	#7
glocktoys Member Join Date: April 29, 2006 Posts: 47	great at 520 hope to get my lr-308 to shoot that

December 18, 2009, 06:55 AM	#8
preventec47 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Posts: 104	You are joking with us... Right ? small groups, cheap factory ammo, first try, rookie first day AND now he tells us there was 6 mph wind ? ? ? Yea, I think this guy is pulling our leg.

December 18, 2009, 07:01 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	4 shots into 4 inches at 520 yards is a really good thing. If every 4-shot group's no bigger than 4 inches at 520 yards, then it's a marvelous thing. I'm not intending to rain on your parade but what you've done is a decent indicator that you, the rifle and ammo did all the right stuff four times. Proving it to be something one can count on all the time means you gotta do it every time. Below's a success rate graph showing the chances of a group's number of shots representing what will happen with all groups fired: Try your rifle and ammo two or three more times at 520 yards with 4-shot groups. Whatever the results are will be a better indicator. Especially if you overlay each of the five 4-shot groups such that the aiming point for each one's at the same place, then you'll have a 20-shot composite to evaluate what the hardware (rifle+sights+ammo) and software (you and your shooting technique) do most of the time.

December 18, 2009, 03:21 PM	#12
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	Just curious as to what range your scope is zeroed @ and how high above the center of the bore it is mounted? __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher- Last edited by Palmetto-Pride; December 18, 2009 at 03:46 PM.