6.5mm-06 or stick with .270 Win

[RCP Fab]

I feel that the 6.5 is what I am after, but it may be my second barrel down the road. I'm not willing to risk spending more than $100-150 on a barrel blank that I very well my screw up. I have yet to find a 1:9" twist barrel blank in .270, which leads me to think that when I do, it's not going to be cheap, so if I go with .270, it will be a standard 1:10" twist

Now that leads to a few other questions....

What is the optimal barrel length, for either caliber? I will be going with a straight, or near straight contour.

What do you prefer, chromoly or stainless (ignoring finishing, I only care about which performs better)

Green Mountain Barrels has chromo and stainless in 27", but the bore and groove specs are on the loose side of SAAMI tolerances. They go for $100 and $140 for chromo/stainless.

Shilen Match Grade go for a little bit more, and are 28" long, but only the chromoly one is in my price range. Stainless pushes close to $250.

[Bart B.]

With the greater number of high quality 6.5mm heavy bullets, I'd pick the 6.5-06 over the .270. It's barrel life for tack driving accuracy (that is, starting out at 1/4 MOA biggest groups at 100 yards) will be about 800 rounds compared to 1000 for the .270, it may be worth it. Both are overbore cartridges therefore, barrel life will be short.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Just one caliber away from each other. But the 270s has an outstanding track record. 6.5s got what? On the other hand 25-06 is a reloaders dream to play with.

[Bart B.]

Sure Shot, 6.5mm/26caliber cartridges have a long track record of excellent accuracy in competitive shooting disciplines. 27 caliber cartridges do not. But that's 'cause good match bullets have been made in 26 caliber for decades whereas 27 caliber ones have not.

Had the .308 Win case been necked down to 27 caliber and Sierra made three weights of good match bullets some years ago, the .270-.308 wildcat may well have been the round to go with instead of the 7mm-08.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Well bart. Should of. Could of. But it didn't happen!! 270-08. And I doubt it ever will. I don't see a commercial 6.5-06 either. Just to much competition for it to overcome from the already established 25-06 and 270. You have to wonder why the gun manufactures haven't mass produced the 6.5-06. I certainly don't expect it to be what I supposedly think.
Kind of reminds me of the 6.5X 57mm Mauser. Another one of those go no place kind of cartridge's. But this info shouldn't bother the OP as he may be able to chamber and change barrels. Having that ability is certainly a plus for him.



S/S

[reynolds357]

I would prefer a 6.5X284 to an 6.5 x 06. Reasons being that they are commercially produced, bit faster, more accurate, and awesome high end factory brass is available from Norma And Lapua. I personally dont see the 06 as having enough advantage over the .270 to justify building one.

[taylorce1]

As to barrel length with either if you are going for max velocity 26" or longer on both. The GM barrel blank at 27" might finish at 26" long, hard to say but there will be some loss on both ends of the blank. The 28" Shilen will easily finish at 26", however I wouldn't be upset with a 22-24" barrel in either round.

[steveNChunter]

Have you also considered a .270 weatherby mag?

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by steveNChunter

Have you also considered a .270 weatherby mag?

It won't work in his RAR rifle that he is re-barreling. Ruger hasn't offered the American rifle yet with a magnum bolt face. When and if they do then the .270 Bee would be a viable option.

[Charles S]

I would prefer a 6.5X284 to an 6.5 x 06. Reasons being that they are commercially produced, bit faster, more accurate, and awesome high end factory brass is available from Norma And Lapua. I personally dont see the 06 as having enough advantage over the .270 to justify building one.

As an individual owning both, I have a couple of questions?

The 6.5 X 284 is faster? That is not my experience, based upon what? In my short action I have to load longer bullets deeper in the case and that encroaches on my powder capacity? I can get much faster velocities in my 6.5X 06.

More accurate? Again based upon what. For me I have only two rifles, so I have a N of 1.... It is hard to make an intelligent assessment of that. I find my 6.5X06 to be as accurate... possibly more accurate, but again I have an N of one.. What are you basing your experience on?

While I agree 6.4 X 284 brass is easily avaialbe. I promise I can make make 6.5 X 06 quickly and cheaper.

I own both. Both have their place. I find the 6.5 X 06 to be a pleasant, accurate cartridge that is easy to load for. I am happy with it out to 1000 yards!

[steveNChunter]

It won't work in his RAR rifle that he is re-barreling. Ruger hasn't offered the American rifle yet with a magnum bolt face. When and if they do then the .270 Bee would be a viable option.

I didn't even think about the bolt face not being large enough, good point. I guess it couldn't be opened up enough to allow for a magnum. Thats a heck of a cartridge though.

[reynolds357]

Charles, as to velocity I get my information from published data. Published data has the 284 based cartridge faster than the 06 based one. Both my 6.5 X 284's are running much hotter than published data and I have never had any luck pushing anything based on an 06 case up much in pressure.
As to accuracy, 20% of the 1k guns I am seeing at the present are 6.5 X 284. I have never seen a 6.5-06 in a 1k match. I am guessing there is probably a reason for that.

[reynolds357]

I dont think the American's design can stand magnum cartridges. I think they will have to add a recoil lug, but I could be wrong.

[taylorce1]

I haven't seen the RAR bolt face, but there might be some problems with opening up the bolt face. The extractor might not work properly and require a lot of work to get it functioning properly. Not to mention with the detachable magazine may not be able to handle the magnum case, and the rails and possibly feed ramp would need reworked to have it feed properly as other than a single shot. There is a lot of work needed other than just opening up a bolt face to make it work as a magnum cartridge.

Originally Posted by reynolds357

I dont think the American's design can stand magnum cartridges. I think they will have to add a recoil lug, but I could be wrong.

The RAR has plenty of recoil lugs, they are just built into the stock and not the action. So I'm pretty sure the design will hold up to the magnum cartridge. Tikka's and the Savage Axis are two that handle magnum cartridges that have the recoil lug built into the stock as well.

[reynolds357]

I agree with Taylor. My love affair with my Ruger American was short lived. I dang sure would not build a custom off it until someone starts to make some good stocks for the rifle.

[Charles S]

As to accuracy, 20% of the 1k guns I am seeing at the present are 6.5 X 284. I have never seen a 6.5-06 in a 1k match. I am guessing there is probably a reason for that.

I would agree with the assessment of no 6.5 -06 in 1K matches. Of course I have an additional question? How many long actions do you see in 1K matches?The only one in the matches I have participated in is mine and I have done exceeding well... FWITW.... Stepping outside of the box is not always bad.

Charles

[reynolds357]

A lot of long actions. .30 wildcats. .338 Lapua. .300 Win mag. 7 Rem mag.

[moosemike]

The 270 is a great cartridge and I own a rifle chambered in. But even at 600 the better ballistics of the 6.5 will be an asset.

And just how much better are those 6.5 ballistics at 600 yards than the .270 Win?

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by moosemike

And just how much better are those 6.5 ballistics at 600 yards than the .270 Win?

Not enough to write home about that is for sure. If mainly used for target reasons then the better bullet selection goes to the 6.5 calibers. For hunting it is a wash, kind of like the .280 vs. .270.

[steveNChunter]

I have never had any luck pushing anything based on an 06 case up much in pressure.

I have had a different experience with my .25-06. It loves a grain over-max load of Ramshot Hunter. Very accurate and no pressure signs. Other '06 family cartridges may vary but I think most who load for .25-06 will tell you it likes to be pushed hard.

[sc928porsche]

I have 270 and 6.5-06. Without a doubt, I prefer the 6.5-06.

[ndking1126]

And just how much better are those 6.5 ballistics at 600 yards than the .270 Win?

Great question, here's what I found:

Using JBMBallistics (59*, 50% humidity, 1000Ft elevation, 29.92, and a 100 yard zero)

6.5-06:
@600
76.5" Drop, 21.2" Drift, 2015.1 FPS, 1280lbs
@800
161.1" drop, 40.1" Drift, 1772.4 FPS, 990.4

270:
@600
73.1" Drop, 25" Drift, 1966 FPS, 1159lbs
@800
157.9" Drop, 47.9" Drift, 1678.7 FPS, 844lbs

In an attempt to compare apples to apples, I used 142 GR SMK (.595BC) @ 2850FPS at muzzle and 135 GR SMK (.488BC) @ 2995 FPS @ muzzle. I picked these velocities by going to federal premium and they had the 260 Remington firing the 142 GR at 2750. Since the .30-06 typically shoots about 100 fps faster than the .308, I added 100fps. The 270 had 130 grain bullets firing at 3050 and the 150 Grain firing at 2830. If you do the math, assuming a constant change in weight causes a constant change in velocity, you get the 2995FPS for a 135 grain bullet.

A known distance is a lot easier to adjust for the elevation than shooting through an unknown wind and at unknown distances the drop is more similiar than the wind drift. AT 600 yards, you have almost 4" less drift and at 800 yards you have almost 8" left drift. As I mentioned, the 270 is a great round and I own one so I'm not saying its a bad choice. I'm just saying the less wind drift is what I considered the asset and if I was choosing a cartridge for the OP's purposes, I would go with the 6.5-06 over the .270. I agree with Taylorce1 that it's not a huge difference and I'll even admit the actual numbers were closer than I expected for drop.

On a positive note, I didn't even know the SMK was made in 270 so I'm pretty excited about that! I'll probably load some of those up.

[JD0x0]

The 270 had 130 grain bullets firing at 3050 and the 150 Grain firing at 2830.

Those are pretty mild factory loads. The hornady super performance advertises a 130 grain to about 3200 fps. And, with hand loads a 150 grain bullet can be safely pushed to 3000fps. Since the 6.5 will be handloaded it's a better apples to apples comparison using handloads for the .270 since a hot loaded 6.5-06 will have an advantage over the mild-ly charged factory ammo.

The 6.5 clearly has better bullet choices for the upper weight end, compared to the .270 so they will always drift less. That is, unless you manage to handload some of Matrix Bullet's 165gr or 175gr .277 VLD's, which will have a better BC than the heavy 6.5's. The problem is you'd need a custom twist(ie faster than std 1:10) rate to stabilize any VLD bullet over 150 grains in the .270 caliber.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by ndking1126

I agree with Taylorce1 that it's not a huge difference and I'll even admit the actual numbers were closer than I expected for drop.

Let us put your numbers into better perspective, at the yardage you listed 600 and 800 you won't be adjusting for inches but rather MOA.


6.5-06
600 yds, -8.4 MOA drop, 2.7 MOA wind
800 yds, -15.4 MOA drop, 4.8 MOA wind

.270
600 yds, -8.1 MOA drop, 4.1 MOA wind
800 yds, -15.5 MOA drop, 6.0 MOA wind

So in the real world the difference is roughly 1.25-1.5 MOA correction for wind at 600-800 between the two. With a good MOA or Mil-Dot reticle and as long as you can estimate the wind correctly it would be pretty easy to hold over. Or think of it as 5-6 clicks extra adjustment on a 1/4 MOA adjustment scope. Like I said earlier not enough to write home about.

After owning the .280, .270, and 6.5-06 and shot them all extensively, and since I hunt more than anything else I've settled on the .270. Mainly because I like the rifle I own in .270 better than the others I had. They all shot well, but my .270 was just a better balanced rifle and felt more natural in my hands.

Originally Posted by JD0x0

Those are pretty mild factory loads..........Since the 6.5 will be handloaded it's a better apples to apples comparison using handloads for the .270 since a hot loaded 6.5-06 will have an advantage over the mild-ly charged factory ammo.

The 6.5 clearly has better bullet choices for the upper weight end, compared to the .270 so they will always drift less. That is, unless you manage to handload some of Matrix Bullet's 165gr or 175gr .277 VLD's, which will have a better BC than the heavy 6.5's. The problem is you'd need a custom twist(ie faster than std 1:10) rate to stabilize any VLD bullet over 150 grains in the .270 caliber.

It doesn't matter how fast they go for similar weight bullets they are going to have similar MV, the .270 isn't going to be lagging behind the 6.5-06 by much. Besides the data posted is pretty close to what I can find online for the upper end of velocity for the 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 (similar case capacities) without my books even from Hogdon. Superformance isn't even listed for use in either cartridge online hybrid 100V give the best at 2900 fps for the 142 SMK and 3056 fps for the 135 SMK. Which gets us:

6.5-06
600 yds, -8.0 MOA drop, 2.6 MOA wind
800 yds, -14.7 MOA drop, 4.6 MOA wind

.270
600 yds, -7.6 MOA drop, 4.0 MOA wind
800 yds, -14.7 MOA drop, 5.8 MOA wind

So as you can see the figures didn't change by much at all.

Companies have started to design better bullets with higher BC ratings for the .270 Win, it won't match the 6.5's variety of bullets but you have more options than ever before that don't require a new barrel to get the job done. Contact Matrix the 165 grain in a VLD is designed to work in a 1:10 twist barrel, you don't need a faster twist until you step up to the 175 grain, plus they have a 150 grain RBT that has a .519 BC. Nosler has came out with a new LR Accubond that will give a .625 G1 BC and still stabilize in a 1:10 twist .270. Should make for a good long range hunting bullet. CEB offers a 130 grain all copper bullet with a decent BC of .540, and Berger offers bullets in 130 with a .497 and 150 with .531 BC that still stabilize in a 1:10 twist barrel.

[bobnob]

I agree with taylorce1; get a 1:9 twist barrel about 24 inches or maybe longer, then you can use the Matrix VLDs for your LR work, use the 180g Woodleighs for big grumpy game at close or mid range, and still get factory ammo anywhere in a variety of styles should you ever need to.

And if you tire of the combo, I am sure a 1:9 .277 barrel wouldn't be too hard to offload as long as its not worn out.

Good luck!