Officers of the Law,Your Advice?

[cheetah44]

Each person has to answer that question on his own. I can only tell you that I was an officer in trouble, oddly enough, I was being pummeled by a big black guy myself and two civilians came to may rescue and I wouldn't be here today if it hadn't been for their assistance. I'm now retired and I wouldn't hesitate to get out and help....but like I said, I've been there and I have a debt I can never repay. I guess every person has to ask whether or not he/she could live with oneself had they not helped. Just one perspective for what it's worth.

[Maximus856]

You guys worrying about getting your skull crushed in need to realize that once you are in the 'battle' the officer isn't gunna be like 'thanks for taking over, see ya at lunch!'

And if the officer is out of conciousness or disabled, or you yourself aren't capable of physically doing something, you can at least encourage others to help.. Its like being at a dance. No one wants to be the first to dance, but once you do, or someone gets it started, it's no big deal.

Not doing anything is like your wife not doing anything because your the man and protector of the family. If theres a struggle chances are you have enough time to evaluate the situation, and do whats neccesary. Grab a tire iron, kick the BG,rip him by the hair do SOMETHING to help the officer gain control. If 110lb girls have been able to hold off sick and twisted rapists etc. then theres no reason 2 guys cant gain control of 1 long enough for help to arrive.

-Max.

[phoglund]

I'm afraid I'd have to jump into the fray. It's my community that law enforcement is protecting. A cop doesn't get beaten/killed in my community if I can stop it. I'm not a disinterested bystander, I'm a member of a community. As it happens I'm also fit and know a bit about grappling and other fighting techniques. I didn't train as hard as I have because I 'm masochistic! If you can't help directly, make a call. We are all collectively responsible for the community we live in and it's moral basis. If you drive by and don't help you are contributing to the degeneration of the quality of life in your own community.

(Besides, last time I used a "Rear Naked Choke" it worked amazingly well and I wouldn't mind another shot at it. Purely for research purposes mind you!)

***Note***
The rear naked choke (often abbreviated RNC) is a chokehold in martial arts applied from an opponent's back. Depending on the context, the term may refer to one of two variations of the technique. Either arm can be used to apply the choke in both cases.

The term rear naked choke likely originated from the technique in Jiujitsu and Judo known as the "Hadaka Jime," or "Naked Strangle." The word "naked" in this context suggests that, unlike other strangulation techniques found in Jiujitsu/Judo, this hold does not require the use of a keikogi ("gi") or training uniform.
http://www.answers.com/topic/rear-naked-choke
***END NOTE***

[BreacherUp!]

phoglund, RNCs are damn good. But I'll think you'll agree that they shouldn't be applied if you haven't trainined to do it. Get it wrong, and you may injure the guy's trachea and kill him. For those that do not know, an RNC is meant to stop the blood to the brain by constrictring the arteries in the neck. Additionally, in many regions of the US, the RNC is pretty close to deadly force in the force continuum.

[phoglund]

Breacher,

I absolutely agree with you about knowing how to apply said technique. Note I didn't post details on how to apply the technique. Done incorrectly and you will end up watching somebody die because you've broken his tracheae and his throat has swollen shut. Done correctly and you have just about enough time to whisper "goodnight" to your opponent before he passes out.

Thanks for mentioning the importance of proper training with this technique.

[Capt. Charlie]

Guys, I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm not familiar with the RNC, but I am with the carotid choke hold. Sounds like the same thing. Is it?

I remember LAPD started a trend among agencies a few years back banning it after a few fatalities, but I've also heard recently that it's being re-instituted here and there.

[BreacherUp!]

Capt, you are corect. In LE circles, they did away with the "Rear-naked choke" and coined it the "Carotid restraint," Same thing, but it makes politicians feel better.
Some agencies, like mine, still teach it. We practice DTs alot (alot of ground fighters on out team). But, as I said, on the force continuum, it rates right near DF.

[ibfestus]

I was working a boat show in St. Louis at the Cervantes Center. It was in Feb. IIRC. I ran out of brochures and went to my car parked at the Sheraton Hotel's parking lot across the street to get some more.

When I rounded the corner, there was a gang of about 6 black juviniles that had a elderly white person down in the Sheraton's parking lot. One of the teens had an aluminum baseball bat that he swung like Tiger Woods teeing off. Blood and brains splattered on me and my car.

I ran back to the Cervantes center and grabbed a cop that was directing traffic. He absolutley refused to help me (and the victum) until I got loud and people began to react to my passionate appeals for help.

The old white guy was dead with his brains all over the Sheraton's parking lot.

The cops produced a black "suspect" and asked me to identify him. He was about 45 years old. The oldest guy I saw involved in the killing was maybe 18 years of age.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody was ever charged in tis murder.

[VUPDblue]

Sorry to hear about your incident, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread.

[clem]

This is worth it's weight in gold:



http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

[Socrates]

Well, let's get this straight. In Kali, my police chief hasn't issued a CCW in 28 years. That means, to me, that in our town, LEO don't need our help, other then us calling stuff in, and letting them know about things they need to investigate.

Last time I called the police, they took 10 minutes to get there, and, with the 8 guys from East Oakland, smallest at 6'4", and 240, who had only God knows in their gym bags, they could have been cleaning up a very messy multiple homicide. We live in an area where this is totally inexcuseable. We have, as a general rule, no violent crime, and, one of the few times we are close, they are really slow..

So, what I see from this is, one, the police don't support our second amendment rights, and, two, their response time sucks, leaving us on our own, in a very bad situation.

Third, the Supreme court has found that the police have no
obligation, or, fuduciary duty to protect us. So, let me get this right. NO CCW in 28 years, basicly making us totally at the mercy of the Bad guys, unless we break the law, and, if we are attacked, no response, or obligation to protect. Just SOL...

The irony is, given the situation, I'd probably help out, simply because I don't believe in an eye for an eye, but trying to forgive idiots for their policies...

S

[G-Cym]

I don't believe in allowing a beat officer to be killed because of some idea of retribution towards politicians. Socrates, I understand that your politicians are corrupt and don't have your best interests at hear. And I'm glad you still follow your humanity and would help the beat officer anyways. He isn't the one make the bad decisions. He just has to follow them.

[BillCA]

Like Socrates, I have my fair share of complaints against the way police chiefs and sheriffs do business in CA and not necessarily all of it regarding CCW.

But that street cop wrestling with an ex-felon the size of a water buffalo or maybe fighting the drunk who has a box knife knows what it's like to have the citizens of his community on his side -- or against him. Doing something to help the officer will typically be appreciated -- especially by the officer on the ground.

I mentioned I'd stopped to help a CHP officer once. But I've also had my encounters with arrogant, obnoxious local officers too. Out of several of those, there's only one single cop I might leave to handle his own messes. And I say "might" with all seriousness. His demeanor and attitude typically provoke angry responses and he loves to intimidate and coerce people into actions to justify his "suspicions". But I don't think my own moral compass would let me walk away if his life was on the line.

[45RackerTracker]

That's very nobel of you, but you might be renamed Suckerates if you help an officer in distress and use an illegal concealed weapon. It just may turn out to be a two fer collar, for the helpless PO.