Any ever seen or used a Machine Pistol?

Machineguntony · May 23, 2015, 11:03 AM

Has anyone here ever seen a fully transferrable registered MG pistol up close and in person? How are these to shoot?

4thPoint · May 23, 2015, 11:21 AM

There is a range about an hour from me that has full auto guns for rent that I've made use of a few times.

And there was 'familiarization' while I was going through a qualification course for a special group where we were introduced to AK's, a STEN, a Sterling, an MP5 and a PPsH(?).

They were all impressive bullet hoses, great for house-to-house sorts of things, but I wouldn't want one in the open countryside.

I've also seen three full auto guns that were missed in the "Great Registration" where the owners now have to keep secret their ownership of inanimate bits of metal, wood and plastic. And a few modern weapons that are mere moments away from being full auto but yet seem to have the ATF's blessing.

Rondog · May 23, 2015, 02:09 PM

I've fired an MP5. It was fun, but I've had farts that lasted longer than that magazine of ammo. Pretty useless IMO.

Sharkbite · May 23, 2015, 02:17 PM

Tony, ive got a little bit of time on a Glock 18, but i dont think there are any transferable ones.

Maybe a Scorpion that came in pre GCA

skizzums · May 23, 2015, 04:25 PM

apparently they are only 425!!!!
http://www.gunsamerica.com/953265744...tic-Pistol.htm

your allowed to own a sample if your a class III seller, they can only be sold to LE,MIL

MSRP:532$

Machineguntony · May 23, 2015, 05:48 PM

Rondog, You are right in that the MP5 is quite useless. You can't hunt deer with it, you can't bake a cake with it, it never gets hot enough to cook bacon on the barrel, and you sure as hell can't conceal carry it.

But the MP5 isn't really a machine pistol, and the SP89 isn't really a true pistol.

How did you like the Glock 18?

I hear there are Baretta 93s and S&W that were registered before the cut off.

Sharkbite · May 23, 2015, 09:21 PM

A Beretta 93R would be pretty cool

As for the MP5 comment...the British SAS, various US counter terror forces and countless Police SWAT teams ran MP5's for decades.

colbad · May 23, 2015, 11:24 PM

Glock 18. Was fun but went through ammo pretty fast. Really did not see the value other than the novelty factor.

**44 AMP** · May 24, 2015, 12:33 AM

point of order:

MP = Maschine Pistole

is the German term for a submachine gun. Literally a Machine Pistol.

The MP5 is most certainly a machine pistol.

By the makers definition.

James K · May 25, 2015, 09:16 PM

I assume that the OP means a full auto pistol, not a submachinegun. I have fired several machine pistols including a Mauser Schnellfeurer, a Star, a couple of Spanish copies of the Schnellfeurer, and an M1911A1 converted to full auto fire. All except the Star had shoulder stocks.

None of them were worth a darn, nor were any of the shoulder stocked semi-auto pistols I have fired, though the Mauser type, thanks to the long barrel and long stock, has the best chance of reasonable accuracy and control.

IMHO, it is possible to train enough to use a light SMG effectively in full auto at short range, but the full auto pistols simply cannot be controlled to make any effective use of any shot after the first.

Jim

burrhead · May 25, 2015, 10:17 PM

I 1989 I worked on the set of Robo Cop II and the title character's gun was a heavily modified Beretta 93. The gun wrangler also had a stock 93 for back-up which I handled but didn't shoot. It looked basically like a 92 with a folding fore-grip on the dust cover.

Robo Cop's handgun: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:BerettaAuto9.jpg

Machineguntony · May 26, 2015, 03:53 PM

I would love to get my hands on a Baretta 93. I hear that there are six in the registry.

James, what if the load was very light? I saw a YouTube video where a guy fires a machine pistol with two hands and does a mag dump.

Sharkbite · May 26, 2015, 04:07 PM

WOW....a whole 6 of them!!!

Talk about supply and demand. What others have you found that are transferable?

Machineguntony · May 26, 2015, 04:13 PM

Yea. A whole 6. And I have no idea as to the price if they were to come into the market. Sooner or later one has to come into the market. All of us NFA owners are just temporary placeholders for future generations. Please do not abuse your guns!

I also heard there are a number of S&W 59s that were put into the registry right before the May cutoff.

Now that I have my dream gun, I need another dream gun.

Gunfixr · May 27, 2015, 12:21 AM

Got to shoot a glock 18 in smyrna, but i dont think there are any transferrable ones around.
Its not nearly as bad as i thought it would be, more controllable than expected. It did have the ported barrel.
Next closest would be a transferrable mac 12 in 380. A fun little gun that goes through ammo at an unbelievable rate.
Several hours from here there used to be on display at a truck stop a beretta 93r and a mauser c96 schnellfeur (sp?) pistol, both privately owned by the truck stop owner, so must have been transferrable. A bunch of guns on display, many cool firearms. Doesnt fit your op, but an ar 180 full auto was also on display.

gyvel · May 27, 2015, 12:38 AM

Decades ago in Miami, I worked briefly with an ex Argentine Army armorer who had converted an FM (not FN)) Hi-Power to FA. It was interesting to shoot, but it was a Rosario made gun with no slot for a shoulder stock which would have actually made it useful. It wasn't very controllable, to be honest.

It was done with a drop in deal that was apparently devised by the Argentines, so no permanent mods were made to the pistol.

It was a simple device to make and fit, but I have never done it since I own legit NFA stuff and don't want any "troubles."

Gunfixr · May 27, 2015, 09:17 AM

Weve talked about making our own glock 18, just to play with, but never have. Ammo got tough the first time about when we were talking about it, plus, we were wanting a cheap used gun to come in to do it with, since "once a machinegun, always a machinegun".
However, there are other internal differences. The slide is a bit heavier, and the rails sit higher up inside than a standard 17.
Which kind of sucks for glock, since they have a g18 in smyrna with a cracked slide, and atf wont let them import parts, only whole guns, so they so far had been unable to fix it.

Gunplummer · May 27, 2015, 11:36 AM

Does the MAC-11 qualify as a pistol? They are really fast and still controlable.

Willie Lowman · May 27, 2015, 08:05 PM

I shot a Micro Uzi once. It's a pistol with a stock and a stupid fast ROF.

Honestly I didn't care for it.

James K · May 27, 2015, 08:22 PM

Hi, Machineguntony,

Obviously lighter loads would mean less recoil but probably would increase failure rates. None of the shooting I did was with other than factory ammo, though I cannot now recall the brand(s). Note that none of the "machine pistols" had a foregrip or foreend.

Gunfixr, unless you have the paperwork, making a machinegun "just to play with it" ain't worth it today; BATFE won't play and a trip to Club Fed isn't fun. FWIW, all the guns I fired were legally owned, though I did not own them. I have owned machineguns and shoulder stocked semi-auto pistols, but no "machine pistols."

Jim

Deja vu · May 28, 2015, 10:40 AM

I shot a fully auto 1911 that belonged to a FFL about 11 years ago. It was great other than it ran dry in like .25 seconds.

Gunfixr · May 28, 2015, 11:05 PM

James k, we are an 07/sot.
We can make all the machineguns we want, they just arent transferrable.
Look up gunfixr select fire saiga on youtube some time. We did a select fire s12 for an 01/sot ffl a few years ago.
Yes, he had a demo letter.

603Country · May 29, 2015, 09:09 AM

When I was a kid, my distant relative was the sheriff of our parish in Louisiana. He had a collection of weapons that he had taken off of various wrongdoers, and he had weapons that he used as needed. I was allowed to handle them, but not to shoot them. Among the various things I got to 'play' with were a WWII Grease Gun and a German assault rifle that I believe was an MP38 or MP40.

May 23, 2015, 11:03 AM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Any ever seen or used a Machine Pistol? Has anyone here ever seen a fully transferrable registered MG pistol up close and in person? How are these to shoot? __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

May 23, 2015, 04:25 PM	#5
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	apparently they are only 425!!!! http://www.gunsamerica.com/953265744...tic-Pistol.htm your allowed to own a sample if your a class III seller, they can only be sold to LE,MIL MSRP:532$ __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

May 23, 2015, 05:48 PM	#6
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Rondog, You are right in that the MP5 is quite useless. You can't hunt deer with it, you can't bake a cake with it, it never gets hot enough to cook bacon on the barrel, and you sure as hell can't conceal carry it. But the MP5 isn't really a machine pistol, and the SP89 isn't really a true pistol. How did you like the Glock 18? I hear there are Baretta 93s and S&W that were registered before the cut off. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

May 24, 2015, 12:33 AM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	point of order: MP = Maschine Pistole is the German term for a submachine gun. Literally a Machine Pistol. The MP5 is most certainly a machine pistol. By the makers definition. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 25, 2015, 10:17 PM	#11
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	I 1989 I worked on the set of Robo Cop II and the title character's gun was a heavily modified Beretta 93. The gun wrangler also had a stock 93 for back-up which I handled but didn't shoot. It looked basically like a 92 with a folding fore-grip on the dust cover. Robo Cop's handgun: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:BerettaAuto9.jpg __________________ Join the GOA, SAF and the TSRA I'm offended by people that are easily offended.

May 23, 2015, 11:21 AM	#2
4thPoint Junior member Join Date: August 28, 2012 Posts: 240	There is a range about an hour from me that has full auto guns for rent that I've made use of a few times. And there was 'familiarization' while I was going through a qualification course for a special group where we were introduced to AK's, a STEN, a Sterling, an MP5 and a PPsH(?). They were all impressive bullet hoses, great for house-to-house sorts of things, but I wouldn't want one in the open countryside. I've also seen three full auto guns that were missed in the "Great Registration" where the owners now have to keep secret their ownership of inanimate bits of metal, wood and plastic. And a few modern weapons that are mere moments away from being full auto but yet seem to have the ATF's blessing.

May 23, 2015, 02:09 PM	#3
Rondog Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 61	I've fired an MP5. It was fun, but I've had farts that lasted longer than that magazine of ammo. Pretty useless IMO.

May 23, 2015, 02:17 PM	#4
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Tony, ive got a little bit of time on a Glock 18, but i dont think there are any transferable ones. Maybe a Scorpion that came in pre GCA

May 23, 2015, 09:21 PM	#7
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	A Beretta 93R would be pretty cool As for the MP5 comment...the British SAS, various US counter terror forces and countless Police SWAT teams ran MP5's for decades.

May 23, 2015, 11:24 PM	#8
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	Glock 18. Was fun but went through ammo pretty fast. Really did not see the value other than the novelty factor.

May 25, 2015, 09:16 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I assume that the OP means a full auto pistol, not a submachinegun. I have fired several machine pistols including a Mauser Schnellfeurer, a Star, a couple of Spanish copies of the Schnellfeurer, and an M1911A1 converted to full auto fire. All except the Star had shoulder stocks. None of them were worth a darn, nor were any of the shoulder stocked semi-auto pistols I have fired, though the Mauser type, thanks to the long barrel and long stock, has the best chance of reasonable accuracy and control. IMHO, it is possible to train enough to use a light SMG effectively in full auto at short range, but the full auto pistols simply cannot be controlled to make any effective use of any shot after the first. Jim

May 26, 2015, 03:53 PM	#12
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I would love to get my hands on a Baretta 93. I hear that there are six in the registry. James, what if the load was very light? I saw a YouTube video where a guy fires a machine pistol with two hands and does a mag dump. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x Last edited by Machineguntony; May 26, 2015 at 04:10 PM.

May 26, 2015, 04:07 PM	#13
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	WOW....a whole 6 of them!!! Talk about supply and demand. What others have you found that are transferable?

May 26, 2015, 04:13 PM	#14
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Yea. A whole 6. And I have no idea as to the price if they were to come into the market. Sooner or later one has to come into the market. All of us NFA owners are just temporary placeholders for future generations. Please do not abuse your guns! I also heard there are a number of S&W 59s that were put into the registry right before the May cutoff. Now that I have my dream gun, I need another dream gun. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

May 27, 2015, 12:21 AM	#15
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Got to shoot a glock 18 in smyrna, but i dont think there are any transferrable ones around. Its not nearly as bad as i thought it would be, more controllable than expected. It did have the ported barrel. Next closest would be a transferrable mac 12 in 380. A fun little gun that goes through ammo at an unbelievable rate. Several hours from here there used to be on display at a truck stop a beretta 93r and a mauser c96 schnellfeur (sp?) pistol, both privately owned by the truck stop owner, so must have been transferrable. A bunch of guns on display, many cool firearms. Doesnt fit your op, but an ar 180 full auto was also on display.

May 27, 2015, 12:38 AM	#16
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Decades ago in Miami, I worked briefly with an ex Argentine Army armorer who had converted an FM (not FN)) Hi-Power to FA. It was interesting to shoot, but it was a Rosario made gun with no slot for a shoulder stock which would have actually made it useful. It wasn't very controllable, to be honest. It was done with a drop in deal that was apparently devised by the Argentines, so no permanent mods were made to the pistol. It was a simple device to make and fit, but I have never done it since I own legit NFA stuff and don't want any "troubles." __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE Last edited by gyvel; May 27, 2015 at 12:44 AM.

May 27, 2015, 09:17 AM	#17
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Weve talked about making our own glock 18, just to play with, but never have. Ammo got tough the first time about when we were talking about it, plus, we were wanting a cheap used gun to come in to do it with, since "once a machinegun, always a machinegun". However, there are other internal differences. The slide is a bit heavier, and the rails sit higher up inside than a standard 17. Which kind of sucks for glock, since they have a g18 in smyrna with a cracked slide, and atf wont let them import parts, only whole guns, so they so far had been unable to fix it.

May 27, 2015, 11:36 AM	#18
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Does the MAC-11 qualify as a pistol? They are really fast and still controlable.

May 27, 2015, 08:05 PM	#19
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I shot a Micro Uzi once. It's a pistol with a stock and a stupid fast ROF. Honestly I didn't care for it. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

May 27, 2015, 08:22 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Machineguntony, Obviously lighter loads would mean less recoil but probably would increase failure rates. None of the shooting I did was with other than factory ammo, though I cannot now recall the brand(s). Note that none of the "machine pistols" had a foregrip or foreend. Gunfixr, unless you have the paperwork, making a machinegun "just to play with it" ain't worth it today; BATFE won't play and a trip to Club Fed isn't fun. FWIW, all the guns I fired were legally owned, though I did not own them. I have owned machineguns and shoulder stocked semi-auto pistols, but no "machine pistols." Jim

May 28, 2015, 10:40 AM	#21
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	I shot a fully auto 1911 that belonged to a FFL about 11 years ago. It was great other than it ran dry in like .25 seconds. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

May 28, 2015, 11:05 PM	#22
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	James k, we are an 07/sot. We can make all the machineguns we want, they just arent transferrable. Look up gunfixr select fire saiga on youtube some time. We did a select fire s12 for an 01/sot ffl a few years ago. Yes, he had a demo letter.

May 29, 2015, 09:09 AM	#23
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	When I was a kid, my distant relative was the sheriff of our parish in Louisiana. He had a collection of weapons that he had taken off of various wrongdoers, and he had weapons that he used as needed. I was allowed to handle them, but not to shoot them. Among the various things I got to 'play' with were a WWII Grease Gun and a German assault rifle that I believe was an MP38 or MP40.