Need help in finding out true value of older rifle's

hooligan1 · December 9, 2011, 05:39 PM

A friend has asked me to help find an appraiser for a rifle collection, numerous older pieces, trap-doors, rolling blocks double rifles, japanese world war 2 rifles, etc.

Jim Watson · December 9, 2011, 09:13 PM

THR used to have a contact for an appraiser but I cannot now find it.
There are several sources googleable but I don't know any of them personally.

What is the end purpose?
Insurance
Sale
Divison of an estate
Bragging rights

gyvel · December 9, 2011, 10:19 PM

It depends on what kind of valuation you are looking for.

If, for example, you want an "insurable value," then you will need to contact an approved professional appraiser.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for real world values, then your best bet is to go on Gunbroker.com and look at the prices obtained on SOLD items, rather than items with high prices that have no bids. The old adage of "what the market will bear" is well applied here; Those prices are generally a good weather vane of relative "value."

hooligan1 · December 10, 2011, 08:10 AM

No bragging rights really, he wants to get an honest opinion of value to sale the collection, it's for his retirement.
heres some pics fellas,,,,,,, this just the tip of the iceburg, many others to follow maybe some world war I and II rifles as well as earlier models plus swords from civil war.

Jim Watson · December 10, 2011, 11:25 AM

The "dualing pistol" is a Stevens design single shot .22. The white grips indicate it is likely not a real antique Stevens but the inexpensive Hy Score reproduction of the 1960s.

The "double rifle" looks at that angle like a common percussion double shotgun with a sight added to the right barrel for the purpose of shooting a "punkin ball" out of one side and buckshot from the other.

I don't know or care anything about Nazi memorabilia except as trophies from a defeated vile enemy. There are people who will collect about anything, and pay a good price for it. Unfortunately there are enough of them that there are a lot of fakes in circulation. It will take expert examination to tell.

Sorry, I don't see much of a retirement fund here. Hope the rest is nicer.

PetahW · December 10, 2011, 06:05 PM

I too, see a 60's-70's clone of the 1890's Stevens target pistol, worth about $75 today.

If the hammer double has "ELG" marks stamped into the metal somewhere, like hidden under the barrels, it's an inexpensive Belgium gun, made for export, with market-enhancement marks on it ( "Birmingham" ?)

In the same pic, I also think I espy two modern stainless/synthetic inline muzzleloaders, worth about $100 each.

Here's a reference, so you can compare your daggers with proven Nazi daggers: http://www.2-clicks-swords.com/artic...n-daggers.html

.

Dfariswheel · December 10, 2011, 07:52 PM

I "think" the Nazi dagger with the white handle is a Luftwaffe (Air force) model.
The trouble with Nazi daggers is that thousands were assembled after the war from parts and there have been untold numbers of outright fakes made.
These need to be examined by an expert.

The "knife" on the left is a US Model 1917/1918 Trench knife.
These were made for the trench warfare in WWI. There were several versions, all very similar and made by several makers, including Landers, Frary, & Clark, Henry Diston & Sons,and Onida Community Limited.
The makers mark will be on the front of the guard.

The green leather scabbard was made by the Jewel Belt Company.
These knives were replaced by the US Mark One trench knife with a bronze knuckle handle, and were sold as surplus in the 1920's.

These sell fairly often on Ebay and the gun auctions. Value is higher with the original scabbard, usually for around $300 to $500 or so.

gyvel · December 15, 2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

The "dualing pistol" is a Stevens design single shot .22. The white grips indicate it is likely not a real antique Stevens but the inexpensive Hy Score reproduction of the 1960s.

Jim, did you mean "Hy Score" or "Hy Hunter?" I think it was Hy Hunter that sold those in the 60s.

Jim Watson · December 15, 2011, 12:31 PM

You're right, it was Hy Hunter.

I am currently dependent on memory since my reference library burned up.

Colokeb · December 20, 2011, 12:08 PM

If you need a page or two from an original HyHunter "magazine" 30 page brochure on your revolver, give me a heads up....I have one from the time when Roy Weatherby was the distributor. Shows all models and prices.

Jim Watson · December 20, 2011, 07:32 PM

I think we've scared him off.
None of his first batch were anything special or valuable and he is afraid to show the rest.

hooligan1 · December 22, 2011, 07:26 PM

No Jim that's not the case, actually he's in Cali, showing some of the older stuff to a gun collector, and he's not been able to send more pics to me.
I'm hoping that over the holiday weekend he'll be home, and we'll get more pics..

I can't wait either, it's killing me!!

hooligan1 · December 25, 2011, 09:30 AM

Here's some pics finally...

hooligan1 · December 25, 2011, 09:46 AM

and some more,,,,,, wife says stop for today,,,,

Jim Watson · December 25, 2011, 11:59 AM

OK, we've got an 1884 Trapdoor Springfield in GI configuration and nice condition. I'm not much on Internet Price Is Right but let's say high hundreds to low teens.

Next is some sort of Remington, no overall picture but apparently a Rolling Block. Can't read the barrel inscription. They sold those things to about everybody's army and value depends a lot on where it went and in what caliber, otherwise condition counts. It still retains the bayonet lug and bayonet, that is a sign that it is in original configuration which is a plus.

Ah Ha! I can read the tang inscription and it has a 1901 patent date.
The hole in the muzzle looks smaller than the usual .43 whatever.
It is most likely a 7mm model of 1902. Probably surplus from some Latin American country.

And a very Merry Christmas to you and Mrs Hooligan.

hooligan1 · December 25, 2011, 12:18 PM

snuck these in here while she's visiting at the neighbor's!

hooligan1 · December 25, 2011, 12:25 PM

and these!

Jim Watson · December 25, 2011, 11:40 PM

Christmas night specials include an M1 Carbine with late or post WWII upgrades like adjustable sight and bayonet lug. Maker's mark (under rear of rear sight) not visible. I'm guessing but around $600.

German P38s, one WW II issue, make and date not visible in angled photo; one post war P1. The wartime gun might be worth $500, the postwar $300, based on prices at AIM.

The rifle looks like what was known as a Winchester Model 70 National Match, the standard weight barrel in their Marksman target stock; with peep rear and globe front sights. I don't think I have ever seen one outside the catalogs. Which may not make it real valuable, the bloom seems to be off the pre-64 Winchesters.

December 9, 2011, 05:39 PM	#1
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Need help in finding out true value of older rifle's A friend has asked me to help find an appraiser for a rifle collection, numerous older pieces, trap-doors, rolling blocks double rifles, japanese world war 2 rifles, etc. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

December 10, 2011, 08:10 AM	#4
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	No bragging rights really, he wants to get an honest opinion of value to sale the collection, it's for his retirement. heres some pics fellas,,,,,,, this just the tip of the iceburg, many others to follow maybe some world war I and II rifles as well as earlier models plus swords from civil war. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 4, 2012 at 03:14 PM.

December 20, 2011, 12:08 PM	#10
Colokeb Member Join Date: February 15, 2008 Location: west Posts: 86	HyHunter adv magazine If you need a page or two from an original HyHunter "magazine" 30 page brochure on your revolver, give me a heads up....I have one from the time when Roy Weatherby was the distributor. Shows all models and prices.

December 22, 2011, 07:26 PM	#12
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	No Jim that's not the case, actually he's in Cali, showing some of the older stuff to a gun collector, and he's not been able to send more pics to me. I'm hoping that over the holiday weekend he'll be home, and we'll get more pics.. I can't wait either, it's killing me!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

December 25, 2011, 09:30 AM	#13
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	some pics Here's some pics finally... __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 4, 2012 at 03:15 PM.

December 9, 2011, 09:13 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	THR used to have a contact for an appraiser but I cannot now find it. There are several sources googleable but I don't know any of them personally. What is the end purpose? Insurance Sale Divison of an estate Bragging rights

December 9, 2011, 10:19 PM	#3
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	It depends on what kind of valuation you are looking for. If, for example, you want an "insurable value," then you will need to contact an approved professional appraiser. If, on the other hand, you are looking for real world values, then your best bet is to go on Gunbroker.com and look at the prices obtained on SOLD items, rather than items with high prices that have no bids. The old adage of "what the market will bear" is well applied here; Those prices are generally a good weather vane of relative "value."

December 10, 2011, 11:25 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	The "dualing pistol" is a Stevens design single shot .22. The white grips indicate it is likely not a real antique Stevens but the inexpensive Hy Score reproduction of the 1960s. The "double rifle" looks at that angle like a common percussion double shotgun with a sight added to the right barrel for the purpose of shooting a "punkin ball" out of one side and buckshot from the other. I don't know or care anything about Nazi memorabilia except as trophies from a defeated vile enemy. There are people who will collect about anything, and pay a good price for it. Unfortunately there are enough of them that there are a lot of fakes in circulation. It will take expert examination to tell. Sorry, I don't see much of a retirement fund here. Hope the rest is nicer.

December 10, 2011, 06:05 PM	#6
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	I too, see a 60's-70's clone of the 1890's Stevens target pistol, worth about $75 today. If the hammer double has "ELG" marks stamped into the metal somewhere, like hidden under the barrels, it's an inexpensive Belgium gun, made for export, with market-enhancement marks on it ( "Birmingham" ?) In the same pic, I also think I espy two modern stainless/synthetic inline muzzleloaders, worth about $100 each. Here's a reference, so you can compare your daggers with proven Nazi daggers: http://www.2-clicks-swords.com/artic...n-daggers.html .

December 10, 2011, 07:52 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	I "think" the Nazi dagger with the white handle is a Luftwaffe (Air force) model. The trouble with Nazi daggers is that thousands were assembled after the war from parts and there have been untold numbers of outright fakes made. These need to be examined by an expert. The "knife" on the left is a US Model 1917/1918 Trench knife. These were made for the trench warfare in WWI. There were several versions, all very similar and made by several makers, including Landers, Frary, & Clark, Henry Diston & Sons,and Onida Community Limited. The makers mark will be on the front of the guard. The green leather scabbard was made by the Jewel Belt Company. These knives were replaced by the US Mark One trench knife with a bronze knuckle handle, and were sold as surplus in the 1920's. These sell fairly often on Ebay and the gun auctions. Value is higher with the original scabbard, usually for around $300 to $500 or so.

December 15, 2011, 12:31 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	You're right, it was Hy Hunter. I am currently dependent on memory since my reference library burned up.

December 20, 2011, 07:32 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	I think we've scared him off. None of his first batch were anything special or valuable and he is afraid to show the rest.

December 25, 2011, 09:46 AM	#14
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	and some more,,,,,, wife says stop for today,,,, __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 4, 2012 at 03:15 PM.

December 25, 2011, 11:59 AM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	OK, we've got an 1884 Trapdoor Springfield in GI configuration and nice condition. I'm not much on Internet Price Is Right but let's say high hundreds to low teens. Next is some sort of Remington, no overall picture but apparently a Rolling Block. Can't read the barrel inscription. They sold those things to about everybody's army and value depends a lot on where it went and in what caliber, otherwise condition counts. It still retains the bayonet lug and bayonet, that is a sign that it is in original configuration which is a plus. Ah Ha! I can read the tang inscription and it has a 1901 patent date. The hole in the muzzle looks smaller than the usual .43 whatever. It is most likely a 7mm model of 1902. Probably surplus from some Latin American country. And a very Merry Christmas to you and Mrs Hooligan. Last edited by Jim Watson; December 25, 2011 at 12:07 PM.

December 25, 2011, 12:18 PM	#16
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	snuck these in here while she's visiting at the neighbor's! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 4, 2012 at 03:15 PM.

December 25, 2011, 12:25 PM	#17
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	and these! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 4, 2012 at 03:15 PM.

December 25, 2011, 11:40 PM	#18
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	Christmas night specials include an M1 Carbine with late or post WWII upgrades like adjustable sight and bayonet lug. Maker's mark (under rear of rear sight) not visible. I'm guessing but around $600. German P38s, one WW II issue, make and date not visible in angled photo; one post war P1. The wartime gun might be worth $500, the postwar $300, based on prices at AIM. The rifle looks like what was known as a Winchester Model 70 National Match, the standard weight barrel in their Marksman target stock; with peep rear and globe front sights. I don't think I have ever seen one outside the catalogs. Which may not make it real valuable, the bloom seems to be off the pre-64 Winchesters.

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