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April 15, 2013, 03:07 PM | #51 | |
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Which of those other amendments involve deadly weaponry?
And, there are limits to the 1A, for example... particularly when it comes down to the Preamble of the Constitution... Quote:
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April 15, 2013, 03:10 PM | #52 | |
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April 15, 2013, 03:12 PM | #53 | |
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Let's turn this around.. if you absolutely have no reason, in good conscience to think your neighbor who you've known for 20 years isn't a prohibited person, is that any reason he shouldn't be if he is? If 25 years ago he became prohibited, and hasn't gone through the rights restoration process... |
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April 15, 2013, 03:14 PM | #54 | |
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I'm familiar with the Preamble, but I have never seen it evaluated in dealing with questions of constitutional rights. SCOTUS has said that the RKBA is an individual right, not a collective one. Might I suggest a peek at a Federal Constitutional Primer?
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April 15, 2013, 03:15 PM | #55 | |
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April 15, 2013, 03:28 PM | #56 |
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Kochman, who said anything about walking around? I said DUI, which refers to driving.
Do you not think cars are deadly implements? Have you ever compared road fatalities with gun shot fatalities? Have you ever looked at the numbers killed or maimed by drunk drivers? Yet you feel that roadblocks are an invasion of privacy, and should be illegal... but you think NICS is reasonable and necessary. FWIW, Kochman, medical malpractice kills more people in a given year than do firearms in the US. Firearms are deadly, but so are many other things. Those other things either don't draw media attention, or are backed by serious money. You can claim apples and oranges all you like, but that only shows that with regard to lethal effect, you haven't actually checked your numbers; and with regard to the Bill of Rights, you don't understand the concepts of Strict Scrutiny (which the courts tend to apply to ALL other Constitutional protections), Intermediate Scrutiny, and Rational Basis (which the antis keep trying to apply solely to the Second Amendment). |
April 15, 2013, 03:37 PM | #57 | |
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April 15, 2013, 03:41 PM | #58 | ||
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April 15, 2013, 03:44 PM | #59 |
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JimDandy, fine, call it a DUI checkpoint. Those are legal, but only if run in certain manners; but even though they are legal, if police departments started running then on a daily basis, the citizens would tire of it rather quickly, and the powers-that-be would stop the practice.
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April 15, 2013, 03:46 PM | #60 | ||
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A couple more tidbits from that survey...
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Again, this survey is admittedly old. and I don't know that I trust a single survey to prove anything. But it's certainly suggestive of the fact that background checks influence where crime guns come from. |
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April 15, 2013, 03:51 PM | #61 | |
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April 15, 2013, 03:52 PM | #62 |
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Jim, you haven't responded to my primary objection, which is the source data of this study - it's self-reported behavior to the DOJ from convicted felons! What part of that screams "trustworthy" to you?
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April 15, 2013, 03:53 PM | #63 | |
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And the question I asked you that you didn't understand was- If the guy you're selling your firearm to, that you have no reason to believe is a prohibited person, actually turns out to be one- does he suddenly deserve to have that firearm? |
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April 15, 2013, 03:59 PM | #64 | ||
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And you STILL haven't addressed how you can think a study based on self-reported felon behavior is trustworthy. Quote:
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April 15, 2013, 04:02 PM | #65 | |
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Then I followed that up with the idea that when one talks about crime guns, one pretty much has to, by definition, get the information from criminals. And I finished with the decision that this was suggestive but not enough to be proof positive. |
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April 15, 2013, 04:09 PM | #66 | |||
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April 15, 2013, 04:10 PM | #67 |
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I had put in a reply that said I agree with Kochman. Spats wanted to hear more from me so here it goes. I live in NJ. If you know what that means then you know that I have a problem whenever I purchase a hand gun. Right now I'm waiting for a purchase permit for about 6 weeks and I'm not happy. But I'm sure that it will come through since, like you, I am a law abiding citizen. For guns in NJ you must have a Firearms Purchaser Card. So that is what I live with, I don't like it but I can't change it, so I live with it. We all live with things we don't like. I really don't mind the background check but I do mind even with the card, and still must go through another check and that it takes so long. I guess my point is that I would not fight against background checks, in fact I think that it is a necessary evil. But I want it done efficiently. And I particularly do not want persons who fail it, to get a gun.
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April 15, 2013, 04:20 PM | #68 | |
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April 15, 2013, 04:23 PM | #69 | ||
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I don't think any responsible gun owner wants firearms to fall into the hands of violent felons or the mentally ill. However, this whole universal background check idea just seems to be more hassle for folks that weren't going to be problems to begin with, without any appreciable benefit.
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April 15, 2013, 04:28 PM | #70 |
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There is a right to travel, and a right to travel abroad. You still have to wait in line at customs when you re-enter the country. And show a photo-ID passport.
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April 15, 2013, 04:44 PM | #71 |
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But you do NOT have to show an ID to travel within the US, JimDandy, so what is your point?
Why do people refuse to grasp that every new regulation we create, every new license we require, every new hurdle to the exercise of a right that we allow to be placed, brings us that much closer to a police state way of life? This country was founded on the principle of keeping Big Brother in check, not on the principle of justifying his methodology. A lot of people like to quote Benjamin Franklin about those who sacrifice liberty for security. Personally, I like an older source, one who predates the US by millenia, but who exemplifies what used to be the Western standard of enlightened individualism: Aesop. Check out the Aesop's fable about the dog who invites the wolf to the farmhouse. Seems like we have members here who think the wolf foolish for refusing the collar... |
April 15, 2013, 04:56 PM | #72 |
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From MLeake:
"As Biden said, they just don't have time to prosecute that paperwork stuff." Before any new laws are enacted, they need to make the time and enforce the current laws instead of creating more "paperwork stuff" that can't be enforced. The anti's have made perfectly clear what their ultimate intentions are. Registration when the new law(s) don't work, then confiscation. And when that doesn't reduce violent crime, what's their next step? |
April 15, 2013, 05:01 PM | #73 |
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The point is those are rights, and an ID check is required. You have a right to re-entry into the United States, and that passport is your "background check" Showing a passport does not infringe your right to travel, even though it does add a delay.
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April 15, 2013, 05:08 PM | #74 | |
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Until we do, why not have a system in place to stop them from getting the guns while we work on how to get around to prosecuting them better? The 4473 stopped 120k in two years, who knows how many now, but likely many more. Some of them were not stopped permanently, some were though... something is better than nothing, isn't it? |
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April 15, 2013, 05:13 PM | #75 | |
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How about we start prosecuting the laws on the books, rather than just setting up unnecessary and ineffective hurdles in an attempt to discourage lawful gun ownership?
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