Criminal Record Sealed - Can i get a FOID card?

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to The Firing Line, Sealed!

Originally Posted by Baylorattorney

It never makes more sense to break a carry law than to follow them. They are reasonable laws in every state i know of so far.

In every state except Illinois. IL has no concealed carry at all. Granted, the OP is asking about the FOID and not concealed carry. Still, I would not characterize the rest of IL gun laws (what I know about them, anyway) as "reasonable."

[Sealed]

@ SHNOMIDO Curious about the 10 year number. What would lead to 10 years?

@ Forum Admin... No quote buttons at this forum?

[Fishing_Cabin]

OP, I know you mentioned that the charges were from the mid 90's. I do not forsee much of a chance of you getting a FOID card at this time. Stranger things have happened, but the felony conviction is enough to make it illegal for you to own/possess a firearm by federal law, and by many state laws.

As far as getting the conviction removed from your record. I would be careful because if you want to be able to buy a firearm after you get a pardon, etc, whatever is done must also meet the federal requirements.

Originally Posted by Sealed

Law firm wants $7500 to attempt the pardon. At this point it makes more sense to unlawfully carry and use that $7500 to beat the case if im caught.

I advise you DO NOT EVEN try to carry unlawfully! If you ever want your rights restored at some point in your life, continuing to break the law is not a smart way to do it.

Originally Posted by Sealed

@ Forum Admin... No quote buttons at this forum?

I am not the Forum Admin, but a friendly reminder that this is covered in the FAQs located here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/faq.php

The part about quotes is located here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode

Perhaps that helps. I hope that you and all of the others here have a wonderful day!

[Don H]

Originally Posted by Sealed

Curious about the 10 year number. What would lead to 10 years?

Probably this:

18 USC 924(a)(2)
Whoever knowingly violates subsection (a)(6), (d), (g), (h), (i), (j), or (o) of section 922 shall be fined as provided in this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

[Baylorattorney]

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

Welcome to The Firing Line, Sealed!


In every state except Illinois. IL has no concealed carry at all. Granted, the OP is asking about the FOID and not concealed carry. Still, I would not characterize the rest of IL gun laws (what I know about them, anyway) as "reasonable."

Carry laws are reasonable where they exist, >>>>more so than BREAKING the law anywhere.<<<<<<<

My personal opinion is there is not a single gun control law I deem as reasonable. Not even close to it. Damn shame this OP made a mistake when he was young and nothing short of him being well connected and wealthy (a pardon) can restore his right to own a gun. IMO it appears to be another glaring example of how gun laws ONLY HURT good folks rather than help us.

[Onward Allusion]

Don V.
I'm putting this up because I recently was given some guns because my father passed away and I'm currently going through the permit process. This is information I came across.

I almost "potentially" screwed up bad and have since learned that nobody is very forgiving when violating any of these rules\laws\statutes--I'm not sure what the differences are--. My potential mistake was getting ahead of myself and not knowing or taking the time to learn the rules. I wanted to get to the local range to shoot before transferring the permits into my name. Chances are nothing would have happened, but if something had, I probably never would have been allowed to own the guns. The officer told me that even though I would have had no malicious intent, it didn't mattter, no violation of gun laws is viewed as harmless or victimless. The officer was not at all friendly about any of this and it seemed harsh, but it is the way it is.

??? Paperwork? You have to register guns that you inherit??? What State are you in?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Baylorattorney

It never makes more sense to break a carry law than to follow them. They are reasonable laws in every state i know of so far.

Your homework assignment, then, is to research the firearms ownership and carry laws in:

• Illinois
• California
• New York
• New Jersey
• Massachusetts
• Connecticut
• Rhode Island

I'm sure there are a few more with arcane and unreasonable gun laws, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

Actually, even Texas isn't all that reasonable. Their required course of fire to get a carry permit is more stringent than that of many police departments, AND you have to shoot it again every time you renew. Some people might call that reasonable, but I don't.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Fishing Cabin

As far as getting the conviction removed from your record. I would be careful because if you want to be able to buy a firearm after you get a pardon, etc, whatever is done must also meet the federal requirements.

The only Federal requirement is that the conviction gets expunged. If the conviction was under Federal law, there is no way to obtain an expungement because that function of the DOJ has been intentionally unfunded for many years. The process still exists in the laws, but it can't be done. So for a Federal conviction the only option is a presidential pardon.

For convictions under state law, Federal law requires only that the conviction be expunged (or pardoned) in accordance with the laws of that state.

[Don V.]

Onward, these are Michigan laws:

The License to Purchase a Pistol form must be completed even though the applicant may already have possession of a pistol, such as through an inheritance. Federal firearms licensed dealers are not exempt from this section of the law and must also get a license any time they purchase/acquire a pistol from an individual or another gun dealer. There is an exemption only for dealers purchasing pistols directly from the manufacturer or wholesaler.

I have to treat an inheritence the same as if I were buying a gun from a local dealer. First you have to get a license to purchase a handgun which is good for 10 days. Once you have the permit, you can buy the gun, or in this case, I already have the guns. Once I have the permit and the gun(s), I have to go back to the local police with the paperwork and the guns. They inspect the guns. Then usually the next day you go back and pick up the gun, after inspection, and the Safety Inspection Certificate which is also you license or permit to own the handgun.

It says right on the back of the Inspection Certificate:

State law prohibits the furnishing, loaning, giving or selling of this pistol to another unless that person (including gun dealers) first obtains a license to purchase a pistol. Violation of this law is a criminal offense.

[Sealed]

Thanks for the information about quotes. I know forum tags and the blockquote icon... i was wondering where the "quote someones post" button was. I use this feature frequently to respond directly to people so the thread doesn't get confusing.

Right now it appears (from what i have read) that if i get the conviction pardoned it will be gone from my record. Everything i have read says that a pardon means the record is destroyed and gone.

Expungement doesn't look like an option at all and sealing does nothing so a pardon is my only option. If Blago was still in office i could have gotten this taken care of for a couple of dinner vouchers and a pair of theater tickets.

If i am able to get a pardon... Does anyone see any potential issues with me getting a FOID card?

Thanks.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Sealed

If i am able to get a pardon... Does anyone see any potential issues with me getting a FOID card?

Nope.

However, I don't think you are correct that all records of the arrest and conviction will disappear. I think they remain on the record, but they can no longer be used against you as disqualifying factors. Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes," but perhaps one of the members here who is an FFL can read the instructions for that question and verify that.

[Scimmia]

Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes," but perhaps one of the members here who is an FFL can read the instructions for that question and verify that.

Nope. If you answer yes to that question, you will not be sold a firearm, period. From the rules for 4473:

EXCEPTION to 11.c, and 11.i.: A person who has been convicted of a
felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the
person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor
crime of domestic violence, not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or
possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law of the jurisdiction where the
conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been
expunged or aside, or the person has had their civil rights (the right to vote,
sit on a jury, and hold public office) taken away and later restored AND (2)
the person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction
occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this
exception should answer "no" to 11.c. or 11.i., as applicable.

[Baylorattorney]

If you spend this much time on this it will get very expensive and all for nought. Same result each time. Issue is narrowed to this: Prohibited person pardonable? Probability >>> unrealistic.

[Baylorattorney]

Record is never destroyed or gone. Its a record. Pardon means your rights are restored, but anybody can find your record as if you had never been pardoned.

[Baylorattorney]

Well I hereby formally tender my withdrawal as counsel here. Let me know how it goes. I always enjoy hearing how the impossible is accomplished, especially in courts of law.

[Aguila Blanca]

Scimmia -- thank you. I stand corrected.

Baylorattorney -- what's your beef? A pardon does not take place within the court system. The OP asked how he might be able to obtain an FOID and buy gun. Collectively, we have (correctly, I believe) informed him that the options are (a) expungement, and (b) pardon.

I don't think anyone has misrepresented that either option would be easy, or likely to succeed.

[markj]

Where the 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony, I think you still have to answer "yes,"

You must answer yes there is a place you can enter conviction pardoned or as in my buds case conviction was set aside by a federal judge and attach the correct documents, the lawyer for the dept will look it over just to make sure it si OK then you should get a card. My bud has a CCP now in his possesion. The dept that reports his felony has to be notified so they will not report to nics if a call is made during a purchase. All legal, cost was a bit he had to find the right lawyer could work this out. It can be done, dont give up yet.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by markj

You must answer yes there is a place you can enter conviction pardoned

Mark, see post #37 above.

[Baylorattorney]

Applicants who have been convicted of a felony are ineligible to receive a FOID card. However, an appeal procedure is available in accordance with 430 ILCS 65/10. Contact the ISP Firearms Services Bureau at (217) 782-7980 for further information.



Waste not want not.

[Baylorattorney]

I don't have a "beef". I was just talking real world options. Pardons aren't handed out like bumper stickers so likely isn't a real option. Expungement isn't even an option, so you haven't correctly stated the OPs options. One visit to the state's (Il) website regarding FOID will show there is an appeals process, which seems to be the most viable real world option for the OP and I don't think it was mentioned until now.


Waste not want not.

[Rifleman1776]

I have served on a public board that heard cases of people who violated certain licensing laws in our state.

Might be opening yourself to a perjury charge if you answered 'No'

True.
We often heard as an excuse, "The records were sealed/expunged or it happened before I was 17 years old, etc., etc....."
No matter. Answering "no" is a lie and often is perjury.
Whether sealed or expunged often makes no difference. This area of law is constantly changing in states and by the Feds.
Plus court records are often (almost always) obtained by private firms and the FBI before any sealing or expungement is ordered. Those records remain forever.
Our agency had authority to search FBI records and, invariably, those arrests and convictions were discovered.
There are consequences for commiting crimes and those consequences will follow you to the grave.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Rifleman1776

No matter. Answering "no" is a lie and often is perjury.

Even when the instructions for answering the question tell you explicitly to answer "no"? (Referring to the 4473)

[44 AMP]

Not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that following the instructions on the (or for the ) form is the correct way to proceed. AND be capable of producing proof that you are pardoned/expunged/set aside, when needed.

Again, you should have a good firearms law lawyer advise you on the correct manner of proceeding. Not sure how to find one of those, but contacting you state rifle & pistol association/NRA might be a good start. Also look for a firm that advertises their expertise in firearms law. And don't expect them to be cheap.

Sadly, the only cheap leagal advice that's worth what you pay for it is the free kind you get on the forum. The lawyer you used before did not serve your interests. Based on what you reported, I would consider them to have ripped you off.

If you're not an NRA member, join. Other than getting asked for donations (alot) there's no real downside, and being a member can be beneficial in many ways.

Clearly you were a "bad boy" in your youth, it will be an uphill (and expensive) battle to "proove" you have changed, and changed permanently for the better. I wish you well, and hope you have the ability to both afford and endure the process. Don't give up hope.

Also, please note that it is very difficult for us to recognize sarcasm in posts, even when you include the emoticon faces. And we are very sensitive to anyone even remotely appearing to advocate ANY illegal action. Adding a note clearly stating a statement is sarcasm is about the only way to be sure of not being misunderstood.