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December 8, 2011, 04:13 PM | #1 |
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Legal Analysis of NDAA Detention Provision
The Volokh Conspiracy has two leading scholars on terrorism law discuss the House and Senate versions of the NDAA detention provision. It is a very good concise summary of some of the civil rights issues raised by military detention during the war on terror and how this bill might affect that:
http://volokh.com/2011/12/07/us-citi...ntion-in-ndaa/ |
December 8, 2011, 05:08 PM | #2 |
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I am curious.
How is Chesney differentiating between the Americans captured in Afghanistan attacking US forces and the ones captured attacking the Military recruiting station in Arkansas? If they are both done at the behest of their masters in Yemen what is the difference?
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January 1, 2012, 01:14 AM | #3 |
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The NDAA was signed into law by President Obama yesterday. It is now in effect......Happy New Year to all.
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January 1, 2012, 02:53 AM | #4 | |
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January 1, 2012, 03:55 AM | #5 |
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Fun Fact: the NDAA passed the Senate 93-7.
U.S. Constitution, Amendment VI: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. It seems to me that terrorists aren't much different from gang members (actually I'd be willing to wager that more Americans have been killed from gang violence than terrorism in the last ten years). They aren't affiliated with any nation, nor do they belong to any standing army. They are criminals, perpetrating heinous crimes, and should be dealt with as such.
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January 1, 2012, 01:19 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Yassar Hamadi among others. Quite a few have been captured in Pakistan and turned over to USFs.
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January 1, 2012, 02:12 PM | #7 |
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Not sure how that limits the NDAA on American soil? How are the distinctions made ?
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January 1, 2012, 04:03 PM | #8 | |
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In response to a question of what Americans have been captured in Afghanistan attacking American forces (which is what you originally asked about), you use as an example someone captured in Pakistan, where there are NO American forces operating? And how does someone captured and turned over to American forces equated to someone captured in the act of attacking American forces? I think you're confusing/conflating multiple scenarios. As to Yassar Hamdi, (not Hamadi), he was not fighting American forces when he was captured. Like the "American Taliban" kid, Hamdi was fighting against forces of one of the Northern Alliance warlords. In other words, he was with one Afghani faction, fighting another Afghani faction. The fact that the U.S. happened to favor the faction he was fighting against does not equate to his attacking American forces. |
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January 1, 2012, 06:44 PM | #9 | |
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You do understand that US Special Operation Forces were working directly and openly imbedded with the Northern Alliance? This is not exactly a big secret.
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You do understand that until just recently nearly all NATO logistics flowed through Pakistan? There have been multiple attacks against convoys there. You seem not to understand these things.
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January 1, 2012, 07:36 PM | #10 | |
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NATO does not automatically equate to "US forces." We're doing a lot more today with "contractors" than we did during Vietnam, when I served. This is not the time or place to discuss whether or not that's good or bad, but mercenaries are not "US forces." And if some zealot headed off to Afghanistan while the Taliban were in power and allied himself with them, and he's fighting with them against Afghani warlords in a civil war -- how is it fair to expect him to know there might be American "advisors" embedded with the Northern Alliance warlords? We are rushing headlong into situations that do not bode well for our Constitutional republic. The truth is, we have not been at WAR (legally, with a declaration of war by the Congress -- which is the ONLY way our Constitution allows for us to go to war) since WW2. Since then we have had so-called "peacekeeping actions" in Vietnam and Korea, but both of those involved uniformed soldiers of the other side as opponents (plus, of course, the NVA). Now we have this nebulous "war on terror," and it has the politicians so spooked that they want to play we're at war against a concept. There is no country currently at war with the United States. Terrorists are not "unlawful combatants," they are terrorists. Why was the unibomber treated as a "criminal" but some other dude playing with bombs gets labeled an "unlawful combatant" and whisked away to perpetual military detention with no charges ever filed -- just because he's a Moslem? Either we are a nation of laws -- or the United States of America was a noble experiment that has run its course, and failed. If we are a nation of laws, then we should not be playing around with the kinds of detentions that we castigate other countries for engaging in. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 2, 2012 at 12:28 PM. |
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January 1, 2012, 07:55 PM | #11 | ||||
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Personally I don't agree with the detentions. My expectation is that they will be used under the most dire of circumstances if at all. Then gotten rid of as a bad idea. I think mass detentions would lead to civil unrest.
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January 2, 2012, 11:53 AM | #12 |
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[Controversial comments about the Packers removed. Go Packers!]
What strikes me as grimly ironic is that Carolyn McCarthy did much of the footwork to ameliorate the damage this would have done to the 4th Amendment, while most "conservatives" voted for it.
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January 2, 2012, 12:02 PM | #13 |
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Attend me! This turned into a disgrace. There are consequences.
Cease and desist singling out a group that because of beliefs - you think X,Y or Z.
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January 2, 2012, 12:06 PM | #14 |
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.. indeed.
That would have served the argument better remaining up.
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January 2, 2012, 12:19 PM | #15 | |
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Just read the Counter-terrorism portion of the enrolled NDAA passed by the US house and senate. Don't see what all the fuss is about. Section 1021 on US citizens and legal aliens:
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http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...2hr1540enr.pdf |
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January 2, 2012, 12:21 PM | #16 |
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What does any of this to do with limiting and removing the rights of taxpaying American citizens?
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January 2, 2012, 12:28 PM | #17 | |
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January 2, 2012, 12:46 PM | #18 | |
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January 2, 2012, 01:06 PM | #19 |
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Do we follow rule of law or not, constitutional question or political hypocrisy
Whether or not the president / 'the government' can constitutionally imprison US citizens without trial, assassinate foreign heads of states and leaders (even though there is a Presidential Directive to the contrary), start a war without Congressional approval, or engage in other highly questionable practices, seems to make many of the constitutional scholars nervous about the legal precedents being set. As one scholarly debater summed it up, "If the government isn't going to follow the law, why should I".
Seems like the first step to anarchy if societies start ignoring laws in specific, then in general...
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January 2, 2012, 01:06 PM | #20 | |
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How about a college Law Professor?
http://verdict.justia.com/2012/01/02/the-ndaa-explained Excerpt: Quote:
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January 2, 2012, 07:06 PM | #21 | |
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Joanne Mariner is a professor at Hunter college.
http://verdict.justia.com/author/mariner Quote:
Last edited by thallub; January 2, 2012 at 07:53 PM. |
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January 2, 2012, 07:44 PM | #22 | |
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January 3, 2012, 10:30 AM | #23 |
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This is not worth refereeing anymore. Since it keeps diverting to invective and responses to such.
CLOSED.
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