Time to Raise the Bar at TFL

[HappyGunner]

Quote Toney:
Just because you are book smart does'nt mean a dam thing. The most stupid people I know are book smart.
====================
Right on Toney. Right on. I just Had to post it twice.

[johnbt]

"The short hand is a necessary response to the constraints of one line communications..."

The owner has requested that we communicate using reasonably precise proper English. What's the problem? It's not that difficult.

And for that matter we're not on a single-line system here.

I was using shorthand abbreviations on single-line TDDs with Deaf people, friends and clients, years ago, but just because I know how to do it doesn't mean it's of any use here. Then there were the old machines, adapted from the teletype days, but I digress. GA (<= Go Ahead. Means it's your turn to type now.)

John

[mohutley]

I'm sure most of us understand the intent of this new policy, and I think the TFL staff should be (and I think will be) particularly sensitive to the sorts of restrictions they impose.

Unfortunately, it smacks of the sort of thing the average TFL member guards against: restraint of a freedom. I’m curbing my own tongue and knee-jerk reaction (at least to some degree) because I realize that TFL has the freedom to mandate their own rules and I have the freedom to move on to a different site.

I hope to keep on enjoying the variety of uninhibited speech contributed to TFL.

[bean357]

Rich, very true and thank you!
Wildalaska, ever had a snort of hot brandy come back out the nostrils? lmao! But really, your example was choice.

[HappyGunner]

Quote:
new policy
=====
Someone posted this was now a new policy?

If TFL is making this a (new policy) I would like the staff of TFL to say it's a mandatory new policy.
I find the rules but I don't find any policy on TFL am I missing something?

Lets take the gloves off and tell it like it really is.

Is this a firearm forum or is it something else now?

[mohutley]

Happy - You don't think it's policy?

However, we will be taking action

Once it rises to the level of rendering a post unreadable or embarrassing to the TFL community, we will have to step in....and we hope our Members will support that effort by working with us behind the scenes.

For the first time in eight years, we've added to the TFL Policies to reflect the value we place on this issue. We ask each of you to assist us in raising the bar.

[roy reali]

Most of my mistakes are due typographical errors. The main culprit is trying to go too fast. I'll have to slow down to fifty or sixty words per hour.

[pax]

What a lot of angst over a perfectly reasonable rule.

I applaud you, Rich. TFL continues to excel.

pax

[Walter]

And so it begins, the exorcising of the "unwashed" by our
"betters".

I know proper grammar, and I know how to spell. Does that
make my ideas any better than someone else's?

Rationalize this idea all you wish to, but when I see it written
that we need to 'clean up the website' to 'make it better'
(semi-quotes are my interpretation), I smell an elitist arrogance
at work.

Walter

[Wildalaska]

Rationalize this idea all you wish to, but when I see it written
that we need to 'clean up the website' to 'make it better'
(semi-quotes are my interpretation), I smell an elitist arrogance
at work.

Never really thought it was elitist to write a coherent sentence...

WildenoughofthespacebarAlaska

[Walter]

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds

Your own "signature" quote supports my position.

Walter

[czc3513]

411 ur 8@53 r 8310n9 70 u5

I do try to use good english...
But remember that a language set in stone will not evolve into a more efficient language. Have you ever read a book over 80 years old? :barf:

[choochboost]

Why must some people consider rules, policies, or guidelines as an assault on their freedoms? Just relax everyone...I don't think Rich is a communist. Everything is going to be ok.

[Wayner]

I guess it's good to have standards. I guess everyone isn't welcome everywhere. I have compassion for the person that tried the best they could and found their post or reply deleted. I would hope the person over seeing the site would be able to differentiate between plain arse lazy insulting script due to the lack of respect for the readers and a persons lower level of composition skills. I don't write like a scholar but I try the best I can to communicate any info I have that I feel may be of help or interest to someone. I use my valuble time to to it.( Call me Saint Wayner ) Others do the same. It would be a cruel insult to me to find something I posted suddenly gone. I imagine others would feel the same way. Those that spit out a post or reply with no respect for the reader that shows in the way the script is composed would know they screwed up and know why their script was deleted. I wonder about the person that actually is on a lower level when it comes to composition, and does the best they can, and the hurt that that person would feel after noticing their script is "gone". I would for the sake of common courtesy and compassion hope the site manager making desisions on these matters was a Rhodes Scholar or better so they could supervise well. I looked up "impetuous" in my little dictionary just to make sure I was deducing correctly about what I read above in the beginning of this. Impetuous 1:marked by force and violence 2:marked by impulsive vehemence. Whaaaa???? I ain't seen anything like that here. Of course I only read a small amount of the text. I hope I haven't agonized anyone with my lack of composition skills here. I know that none of the script I've read anywhere on this forum has agonized me. If I begin to read something that is just "way out there" and bothers my ability to decipher it I just go on to something else to read that is more comforting to my ability to understand it. Should I have used a comma somewhere in that last sentence? Anywhoooo, I kinda enjoy the variable styles of the script I've seen here. Like all the replies above. Writting is an art that takes many forms I contend. See Ya Buds.

[Wildalaska]

Your own "signature" quote supports my position.

In what fashion?

WildwaitingforthisoneAlaska

[RosaMariTB]

OH BOY!! am I in trouble or what?
I think is time to pull out my ENGLISH 101
I almost forgot isn't there The Americans with Dissabilities Act that protects from discrimination?
If you think about it is just as discriminating as other issues that were closed in this forum because of race, no?
Well...NO PROBLEM
Rich, I bought two books that may help...
1. "30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary"
2. "The Elements of Grammar"
Do you recon it'll help?

[choochboost]

Get over it.

[Twycross]

And so it begins, the exorcising of the "unwashed" by our
"betters".

This is nothing of the sort. All that the Staff is asking (in the 'iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove' sort of way) is that you type in a coherent manner.

I know proper grammar, and I know how to spell. Does that
make my ideas any better than someone else's?

No. But even the best ideas will go to waste if the thinker cannot or will not form a coherent post.

Rationalize this idea all you wish to, but when I see it written
that we need to 'clean up the website' to 'make it better'
(semi-quotes are my interpretation), I smell an elitist arrogance
at work.

It is hardly elitist to 'ask' proper use of the english language in your own website. If the Staff want everyone to preface their posts with a joke, that is fully within their rights. And it is also hardly elitist to try to improve the quality of your own domain.

If you think that those demanding clean and proper grammar are elitist or arrogant, nobody is forcing you to stay here.

But remember that a language set in stone will not evolve into a more efficient language. Have you ever read a book over 80 years old?

Yes, language is in a constant state of evolution. But I hardly think that L33t is the next step for english.

In my view it boils down to the fact that the Staff have made a requirement which is perfectly reasonable and fully within their rights. Some may like it, others will not, but that really doesn't change anything.


Hmm. Upon spell-checking my post, the computer views 'L33t' as a legitimate word.

[Waitone]

Love it.

I've treat posts with the same regard as the author treats my time. It he is not interested in communicating with me then I'm not interested learn his point of view. What Rich is doing is no different than what every shooter on this forum does every time they shoot at the range. Get pretty confident at 7 meters and move it out to 10 meters.

Now that Strunk and White is our friend, will we need a Turabian Manual for documentation? Anyone have a suggested manual on diagramming sentences? WOW. Just thought of something. The merchandising possibilities are endless.

Rich, you just raised the bar and I appreciate it.

[Odd Job]

I think the “old codgers” comment was closer to the mark then most would like to admit. Language like all mental constructs is changing constantly, mostly and most rapidly among the young. The refusal to accept and adapt is the sign of mental atrophy. See some of the comments chanted like gospel when questions of caliber come up. The short hand is a necessary response to the constraints of one line communications and will only increase as the “culture” of cyber space grows. Me thinks the push to “improve” things is a last gasp of the “old media”. Sigh……this used to be fun.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean anything if you don't specify the context in which the communication is used. Can you imagine what would happen if I suddenly used my 'cyberspace gamespeak' for written communications at the hospital? Do you think that would go down well and make for a language that is accurate and international, but above all professional?
Now you might say that a firearms forum isn't a hospital and isn't subject to the same degree of scrutiny and consequence in the public eye but I would say that by the same token it isn't a games review forum where spotty-faced teenagers can use cel-phone text-type communications to add their two cents to a discussion. The subject matter on this site is technical, public and often of grave importance. The current standard of communication in that context (and with respect to the forum language choice of English) can easily be found in any magazine that publishes similar information to do with firearms. The fact that the medium here on TFL is electronic rather than paper does not excuse the members from exercising the same care and attention when posting here, as one would expect when writing a letter to the editor of a gun magazine, for example.
There is a place for L33T-speak and I use it myself on other sites and for other communications, but I do not use it here because it is inappropriate.

[tlm225]

Thanks Rich. The majority will appreciate it. As always there will be those who will cry out with indignation and great moral outrage over the loss of their perceived "RIGHTS".

[gfen]

Another vote for the forces of grammar right here. Is it elitist? Sure, in its way. Its not a better-than-you aspect, however, but a genuine desire to keep this board from becoming innundated with the ridiculous which lowers the quality of what it has to present. A desire to keep TFL as the "elite choice," in the higher bracket of Internet forums where people can get together and discuss a hobby in a coherent, intelligent manner without coming across as undisciplined children with guns.

When every thread is filled with puerile commentary, cute picture posts of the misforunate shouting "PWN3D!" and Bunbun the conquering lepus it becomes hard to see the point behind keeping things civil, and when civility ends so does the point of having a useful forum where information and ideas can be traded with ease, instead replacing it with 800 "BOFD/Gun Pron!" threads a day.

And if you truly need that, there's some forums out there that'll cater to your tastes.

In the late 80s, I cut my teeth on a variety of dialup BBSes. I remember, fondly, one of the most prolific users in my area was a parapeligic. He lived in an assisted living home, spent his days in a wheel chair with no use of his arms or legs. His typing skills came entirely from holding a splint with his mouth and moving his head.

I never, not once, saw him abbreviate anything for convienece along the lines of "u," "r," or any of the like. He was proud of his ability to use the language properly. Even in one-on-one chats, where the sysop could pull the user into a session, he didn't abbreviate. Admittedly, most of us never did chats with him, because it was kinda painful..but still!

The other thing I find amusing about the whole policy is the fact that those of us who were the old guard, even then, found the tendency of the kids to type in leetspeak to be the most annoying of them all. Sure, we enjoyed the warez, but it didn't make them any better.

So, I again applaud their new policy. I only hope they take the same stance on some other issues around here, as well, but a boy can dream.

gfen.

[topspin43]

Keep up the good work. TFL is one of life's little pleasures. It is a hobby in and of itself.

[12-34hom]

I will put this as succinctly as possible.

Raising the Bar? = This has much to do about nothing.

If the search function was fully utilized - this place would come to a screeching halt.

Some around here really need to get a sense of humor.

12-34hom.

[kingudaroad]

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ you left wing, Brady lovin', Flag hatin', anit-American commie freaks!

Come on Garand Guy....Spell check that signature