H2H or martial arts?

[Blind Tree Frog]

True enough, any society old enough will evolve fighting systems of their own, but the Asian as opposed to Western systems, were fused with the religious and spiritual dimension. Buddhist monks, who early carried the mantle of this spiritual - religious system, and developed it, were for example forbidden to carry weapons.

Yeah, and i believe that this is where the India stuff starts from. Since the monks were originally trained by a monk who came up from India. He had relatively new ideas that I don't believe were being taught in india at the time (a lot of the chi stuff was his devising originally I believe). From there it spread over asia I would guess. That's just why I have issue about them saying it came from india as if to downplay the development in japan or china.

[Para Bellum]

...for ,ore info check out www.atk.at or http://www.b-a-e.de/index.php/conten...ategory/0/190/

after some 10 years of Tae-Kwon-Do, some Kickboxing and Judo I chose ATK. It's a radical, mostly no-nonsense and no-competition system that offers a solution and finishes the opponent off.

In Krav Maga (which I have tried) I didn't find the "finishing off", same applies to my perception of wing-tsun etc. But this is a very personal subject, like the selection of your personal handgun. A matter of tase basically. Pick what works for you. And don't accept any reply like "thats a foul" or "we don't do that" by your instructor or buddy...that just means I lost control...

[Ninjato]

Blind Tree:

I think what it really boils down to is that the Asian martial arts may have come from India via Bodhidharma but from what I understand, it was the Shaolin Temple that was credited w/ the documentation and research w/ the information that was given to them.

Bodhidharma DID NOT teach the Chinese monks martial arts. What he did teach was breathin excercises and "Chi" related stuff because he saw that the monks were weak and feeble from no exercise and sitting and praying all the time. It took years of study and experimentation before a systemized from of martial art came out of China.

As the arts spread throughout Asia, you can see how it has adapted to the terrain and social situations at the time.


I may be wrong but I firmly believe that all of the Asian martial arts were derived from a Chinese system at one point or another or to better word it, all of the Asian martial arts has components of Chinese Kung Fu.


When you look at it frpm a literal standpoint:
Kung Fu = long time, hard work, good skill
Karate = Empty hands

Putting it this way, there is no superior system. I am biased w/ Tai Chi. This is what works for me and I have not found many systems that can defeat it. Of course when you put it into the context of competition sports then Tai Chi is at the bottom of the list for effectiveness.

[Blind Tree Frog]

Exactly, which is why I don't particularily care for when people say that such and such an art originated in India. India had it's styles that may of influenced other asian arts, but for the most part, they figured out styles on their own.

[Erik]

I recommend keeping things simple, practical, and effective. Everything else distracts from the goal. The goal is surviving an unarmed encounter. That's the necessary mindset. Good luck finding competent training which meets those criteria. It is extremely difficult based on location, availabilty, and being able to recognizing that which is from that which is not.

[Danger Dave]

BTW, the Japanese Judo guy that beat Helio Gracie was named Kimura. Kimura was a monster on the mat - honestly without parallel in his day & age. To honor him, the armlock he used on Helio is called the "Kimura" in BJJ. Don't know about the fights at parties, that's a new one to me, but fights don't seem to be a rarity in Brazil. Now, dojo crashing, the Gracies definitely did that, but that's not without precedent in the martial arts. My TKD instructor told me it was kind of a rite of passage in the US when he started teaching in the late 60's - you'd better be able to fight if you were going to open a school, because you would be tested by the local instructors.

Also, I would rather train with a school with at least some emphasis on sport/competition, although not necessarily it's main focus - In 20+ years of martial arts, I've seen wayyy too much "my technique is too deadly for competition" BS. The translation is usually "we really don't have any idea what we're doing, and we'll lose if we fight". If it's too dangerous to use, then how the heck do you know 1) if it ever works or worked; and 2) you -personally- can use it when you need to?

BTW, my experience - over 20 yrs in TKD/Hapkido & a handfull of months in BJJ. I love them both, but I wish I had started BJJ when I was still in my 20's.

To add a comment about Oyama Karate - the Oyama karate you see around occasionally is a derivative of Mas Oyama's Kyoshinkai, but it's a different Oyama (no blood relation to Mas Oyama, iirc) and a different style/school - not part of Kyokushinkai. That being said, I've seen some Oyama Karate guys in tournaments, and they've got legit skills.

[possenti]

I've seen wayyy too much "my technique is too deadly for competition" BS. The translation is usually "we really don't have any idea what we're doing, and we'll lose if we fight".

Man, I know what you're saying. I don't know how many dojos/schools I walked out of when I heard that....

I felt like telling them, "If your style is so deadly - prove it. Let's suit up with padding, mask, groin guards, whatever. Then I'll let you wail on me. Last one standing has the superior skills."

Or better yet: "I'll let you poke me in the throat with your "Death Touch" if you can get through my barrage of fists, feet, knees and elbows (for starters)."

#*$! posers....

If the techniques taught are not "sportsmanlike" enough for competition, at least they should have the protective gear for man-to-man sparring. Spending an entire class flailing your hands in the air (or even on a bag) is not realistic training for a real-life confrontation.