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February 20, 2013, 03:15 PM | #26 | ||
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February 20, 2013, 03:34 PM | #27 | |
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February 20, 2013, 03:41 PM | #28 | |
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Heck, the Colt Single Action Army has been around for 140 years. But it still has an unsafe characteristic, as in you just don't want to carry with all 6 chambers loaded. Bart Noir
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February 20, 2013, 04:21 PM | #29 | |
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Takedown for cleaning is generally a routine task. Think about it- if you clean the gun after shooting you've been to the range, you drove home, you may even be thinking about the tasks you'll do when you're done. You might even have thought you cleared the weapon at the range before packing up. Easy to be distracted and forget. Dry fire practice is not generally done in the same state of mind (at least, that's not when I do it). One is thinking "I need to practice, but I don't want to actually SHOOT something. Let's double and triple check everything." Your mind is on the task and you're actively thinking about it. Different mindsets. Cleaning can be done in a less attentive frame of mind than actual practice. But still- is it your position that pulling the trigger when NOT intending to fire a round (but rather performing disassembly) is every bit as safe as never having to pull the trigger? Or is your position that it is a potential problem that can be managed but requires extra attention to safety? If you believe the latter, we are in agreement. It does indeed require very detailed attention to safety- attention that should be given anyway, but has in the past presented a danger to those who have been distracted. If you believe the former, we disagree. I don't see how there's any way an additional pulling of the trigger could ever be considered as safe as not needing to do so. |
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February 20, 2013, 04:58 PM | #30 |
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Regardless of what mind set you're in, are distracted, or whatever someone's excuse may be, accidents don't happen when handling a firearm safely, it's that simple. The whole deal with the remington 700 and a faulty safety being blamed for deaths, which I agree that shouldnt have ever left the factory with that trigger assembly but just look at the cardinal rules of hunter safety, 3 in particular: keep firearms pointed in a safe direction at all times, treat every firearm as if it was loaded, and, firearms are man-made devices prone to failure. If you can't follow those then do everyone a favor and wait to buy or handle a firearm until you can intelligently handle and respect a firearm. All of these urban cowboys that buy guns and think they are so "cool" because they have a gun, are the people at the range looking down the end of the barrel after their gun jams, and shooting one handed as fast as they can like they saw in the movies, if that applies to you please give your guns to a state buyback program because thats why my 2nd amendment rights are at stake, because stupid city folks cant keep their head on straight. Yuppies with guns scare me more than criminals with guns, thats for sure.
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February 20, 2013, 05:38 PM | #31 | |
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As soon as we humans start to believe we are incapable of making mistakes (even ones that look totally avoidable) is when the most tragic incidents can occur. |
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February 20, 2013, 05:47 PM | #32 | ||||||
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Here's a question for you, is it a good idea to chamber check any firearm before you take it down? Regardless of whether you have to pull the trigger or not? If you answer anything other than yes, I'd really like to see an explanation (and I highly doubt you would say anything other than yes, you seem like a level headed person). Quote:
I'm not ridiculing you. I'm not against designs that don't require a trigger pull to take down a gun. I'm simply an advocate of safe firearm handling over trusting mechanical safeties. I'd rather stand next to someone with, say a Glock with great firearm handling than an idiot who isn't safe with a gun with 100 safety devices. Quote:
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February 20, 2013, 06:03 PM | #33 |
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Personally, I like the bunny with the pancake on it's head the best and the cat wearing the tin foil hat with tin foil ears second best. Between the two, they say everything that I was thinking about this thread...Well except for this: People have a problem pulling the trigger to take down a pistol because almost all ND's happen when a trigger is pulled. Of those, most are thought to be empty guns.
A high school friend of mine was shot & killed in our high school parking lot by another of my friends my freshman year when he pulled the trigger on an empty gun... except it wasn't so empty! The friend who pulled the trigger killed himself some years later because he never got over killing his friend. Because of that experience in the 9th grade I am kind of OCD when it comes to being sure a gun is empty before I pull the trigger on a gun to clean it. I always assume I'm going to hear a "BOOM" every time I pull it. It sure makes me think twice & look 4 times!!!!
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February 20, 2013, 07:10 PM | #34 | |
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It isn't the gun's fault that a negligent round fires. One should ALWAYS be sure of a clear chamber before any takedown procedure, whether the trigger must be pulled or not. I'd hold short of ridiculing someone who has an ND like this, mostly because any of us can be distracted, but it is certainly the fault of the operator. It's up to the owner to know the ins and outs of a firearm. 1911 owners need to understand that the short and light trigger pull makes it VERY easy to launch a round. Glock owners need to understand that if the trigger is pulled with a round in the chamber it WILL fire. Every design has its peculiarities. It just so happens that this particular peculiarity is one that is highly unforgiving of a failure to clear the chamber properly, and that's something owners must keep in mind. My Sigma is like this. I always, ALWAYS double and triple check before stripping it. It's way too easy to get distracted. |
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February 23, 2013, 01:19 AM | #35 |
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As far as I'm concerned it's a design flaw.
Yes, people SHOULDN'T make this mistake, but they do. A fair number of people would still be around today, and a friend of mine wouldn't have a hole in his leg, if Mr. Glock had designed his pistol so that pulling the trigger wasn't required for disassembly. Given that any number of people have accidentally/negligently discharged rounds due to this characteristic, then that characteristic should have been changed long ago. (Perfection? Pfffft.) Should you put the clutch in and put a manual transmission out of gear before starting the car? Of course you should, but some people don't and run over things they don't intend to. So, modern cars won't allow the starter to engage unless the clutch is in, and as a result fewer things get accidentally/negligently run over. And for everyone who swears that THEY are too smart and careful to EVER make such a mistake—well maybe you are, but the guy a few lanes over at the range may not be as good as you, and you may absorb the round he discharges when he pulls the trigger on a loaded chamber during disassembly. It's an outdated, flawed design characteristic that should have long since been changed.
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February 23, 2013, 01:29 AM | #36 |
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There is no deal--or at least there wasn't...
It was a total non-issue for many years as part of the takedown process of one of the most popular .22LR pistols on the market in the U.S. Then a particularly polarizing polymer pistol became common and it also used a trigger pull as part of the takedown process. Suddenly the need to pull the trigger during takedown became problematic and dangerous. Frankly, I think it became a convenient way to villify a particular pistol that many strongly desired to villify. If there is a deal, that's about the long and the short of it, as far as I can see.
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