NEF +Slugs, Buckshot?

cracked91 · September 2, 2009, 10:15 PM

Okay bare with me I know very little about chokes, etc. I got rid of my .357 mag(

) and sent my 9mm with my sister to cali. I am going up camping in bear country for 4 days next week. The only functional handgun I have is my P22, but I have a NEF Single shot 20 gauge. I don't know anything about chokes but it is smooth all the way through and out the end. Would I be able to load just the regular winchester slugs or buckshot in it safely?

Afterthought: I also have a NEF Pardner Single shot 45-70 with Iron sights, would that be better suited for black bear defense?

dabigguns357 · September 2, 2009, 10:25 PM

i would say take both you'll only have 2 shots.But if you only take one then make it a 45-70.Yes you can shoot smoothbore slugs through the 20 gauge.

I'll go far as to say you might look into getting a 12g mossberg with rifled slug barrel.I bought mine brand new from walmart for $169.00 out the door.They are about $200.00 now but still worth it,i love mine.I put a red dot scope on it for $30.00 and now i have 100 yard rifle with 5+1 shots.

JerseyDrez · September 2, 2009, 11:07 PM

In short, how do you like your P22?

I have one and I love it. Its super fun and Im getting more and more accurate with it.

hogdogs · September 2, 2009, 11:23 PM

For anything but 80+ yard planned shots at deer or other large game, I DO NOT recommend a rifled shot gun barrel... ESPECIALLY FOR ANY DEFENSIVE SITUATION BE IT 2 OR 4 LEGGED PREDATORS!!!! For the sole reason, sabot slugs are the only thing that sees improvement from the rifling. It will throw awful patterns with any size shot pellet rounds and will lead the rifle grooves severely with a regular lead slug as it has no sabot or wad and it is shaving lead right into the grooves with super high force.
A smoothbore with regular slug is fine out to 65 yards easily and 75 to 100 is possible under controlled situations.
Brent

Old Grump · September 2, 2009, 11:51 PM

Which one are you more accurate with and which one can you reload faster. If it was me I would go with the NEF and a few boxes of slugs, probably won't need them but they will do the job.

cracked91 · September 2, 2009, 11:54 PM

the p22 is a great gun, just make sure to feed it clean ammo. I am thinkin Im just going to buy a box of slugs for the 20, and only having 1 shot does not bother me, I think one slug in it would be enough, I am not one to pull the trigger unless Im sure im going to hit, and its my last option. I can reload it in about 2.5 seconds, though I know that probably would not help me If I was getting charged. There are mountain lions up there, but they are very very uncommon, I have never seen one in that area, the P22 will not leave my hip, and it is loaded with Velocitators, the shotgun will be next to me when Im sleeping, with me at all times at night, and under the seat of my jeep during the day. My cuz is coming also, and is bringing his 870 and his .357, so Im not too worried, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of running screaming for him if something happens. Really need to hurry up and save up for that Glock 20

roy reali · September 3, 2009, 12:07 AM

80 yards? 100 yards?

Explain bear self defense to a game warden with shots that far. At the range where self-defense will be your alibi either weapon will work.

hogdogs · September 3, 2009, 12:26 AM

Roy, A bear that commences a charge from 100 yards does not need to be under 80 for me to determine I am in need of self defense weaponry.

But you failed to read the context cues... I was actually saying that a smoothbore is ideal as the need for bear defense from 65 and less yards is more likely

Sorry I confused you. I said I do not suggest a rifle bore as it is for sabot only and the defense is going to be under 65. Under 65, I would rather hurl a big ol' glob of lead weighed in ounces rather than grains anyway.
Brent

roy reali · September 3, 2009, 07:00 AM

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Quote:

Roy, A bear that commences a charge from 100 yards does not need to be under 80 for me to determine I am in need of self defense weaponry.

I agree, that a bear that starts a charge at one hundred or even two hundred yards might need some high-speed lead poisioning. However, if Fish & Game investigates such a distant shooting of an out of season bear, you better have deep pockets. Remember, Game Wardens often have less of a sense of humor then IRS agents.

hogdogs · September 3, 2009, 07:20 AM

Roy, I feel that if you shoot and report, distance won't matter. You will have tracks that indicate running rather than walking. Also an aggressive animal usually lays a far different track than just a running or fleeing animal. Paw shuffles or just "rooster tail" dirt/organic debris remnants will tell the story. it isn't just your story. If you shoot and do not report, you will look like a poacher or at minimum a "wanton waste of wildlife" suspect. Unlike a human on hard ground, the forensics of tracks etc. will be evident on the ground. No DNR official in the nation has a predetermined "legal defense distance" to work from.
As far as I know, all the laws read basically the same in most states... simply, "You will have the right to use any force necessary to prevent/avoid attack from a predator animal if you feel *threatened* for life or limb..."
Brent

roy reali · September 3, 2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

As far as I know, all the laws read basically the same in most states... simply, "You will have the right to use any force necessary to prevent/avoid attack from a predator animal if you feel *threatened* for life or limb..."
Brent

I guess part of it depends on where you live. I know that in California if you shoot a mountain lion is self-defense, Fish and Game will launch a CSI type of investigation.

Still, I think a hundred yard shot on an animal, while wise to protect one's life or limb, might not be so wise is court.

hogdogs · September 3, 2009, 07:39 AM

One possible defense of a hundred yard shot is the possibility that the animal will opt to cease and desist the charge out of fear. So you could claim the first shot was intended to save the life of the animal. I am sure in florida that a 65-80 yard shot would be deemed a good defensive plan so long as you immediately call it in to FWC. Also like i said tracks tell the story. In Fla, our sandy soil is VERY EASY to "read" and will be painfully obvious if the animal was walking, trotting or running. Remember, the gait of a walk, trot and sprint results in totally different laydown of paws. A bear at sprint pulls both fronts and rears together where a walk or trot is an offset fronts and offset rears. It pays to know these things yourself should you ever have to defend yourself... not many lawyers have the where with all to even investigate, defend you on this aspect.
Brent

skydiver3346 · September 3, 2009, 07:41 AM

A Griz for example, can attain speeds up to 40mph for shorter distances and can close that 80 yard gap on you in a heart beat! Pays to be aware of how fast a bear can move so you can be ready to defend yourself if need be.

hogdogs · September 3, 2009, 07:46 AM

AMEN, Skydiver! I ain't waiting to smell the sweetrolls and cheese danish on his breath to go to work! My life is far to fragile and valuable to draw a line in the sand and await him to cross before opening fire. The exact moment my aware self feels he has me in his sights for aggressive approach is the exact moment i shoulder my gun and commence implementing my self defense survival plan.
Brent

September 2, 2009, 10:15 PM	#1
cracked91 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 385	NEF +Slugs, Buckshot? Okay bare with me I know very little about chokes, etc. I got rid of my .357 mag() and sent my 9mm with my sister to cali. I am going up camping in bear country for 4 days next week. The only functional handgun I have is my P22, but I have a NEF Single shot 20 gauge. I don't know anything about chokes but it is smooth all the way through and out the end. Would I be able to load just the regular winchester slugs or buckshot in it safely? Afterthought: I also have a NEF Pardner Single shot 45-70 with Iron sights, would that be better suited for black bear defense?

September 2, 2009, 11:07 PM	#3
JerseyDrez Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2009 Location: Hmmm? Posts: 510	In short, how do you like your P22? I have one and I love it. Its super fun and Im getting more and more accurate with it. __________________ "I don't know what situation you'd be in where you'd be facing a bad guy and he'd have the time to notice your laser shaking and evaluate you as having low confidence. "

September 2, 2009, 11:51 PM	#5
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Which one are you more accurate with and which one can you reload faster. If it was me I would go with the NEF and a few boxes of slugs, probably won't need them but they will do the job. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

September 3, 2009, 12:07 AM	#7
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	What!!!! 80 yards? 100 yards? Explain bear self defense to a game warden with shots that far. At the range where self-defense will be your alibi either weapon will work.

September 3, 2009, 07:41 AM	#13
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Bear speed: A Griz for example, can attain speeds up to 40mph for shorter distances and can close that 80 yard gap on you in a heart beat! Pays to be aware of how fast a bear can move so you can be ready to defend yourself if need be.

September 2, 2009, 10:25 PM	#2
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	i would say take both you'll only have 2 shots.But if you only take one then make it a 45-70.Yes you can shoot smoothbore slugs through the 20 gauge. I'll go far as to say you might look into getting a 12g mossberg with rifled slug barrel.I bought mine brand new from walmart for $169.00 out the door.They are about $200.00 now but still worth it,i love mine.I put a red dot scope on it for $30.00 and now i have 100 yard rifle with 5+1 shots.

September 2, 2009, 11:23 PM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	For anything but 80+ yard planned shots at deer or other large game, I *DO NOT* recommend a rifled shot gun barrel... ESPECIALLY FOR ANY DEFENSIVE SITUATION BE IT 2 OR 4 LEGGED PREDATORS!!!! For the sole reason, sabot slugs are the only thing that sees improvement from the rifling. It will throw awful patterns with any size shot pellet rounds and will lead the rifle grooves severely with a regular lead slug as it has no sabot or wad and it is shaving lead right into the grooves with super high force. A smoothbore with regular slug is fine out to 65 yards easily and 75 to 100 is possible under controlled situations. Brent

September 2, 2009, 11:54 PM	#6
cracked91 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 385	the p22 is a great gun, just make sure to feed it clean ammo. I am thinkin Im just going to buy a box of slugs for the 20, and only having 1 shot does not bother me, I think one slug in it would be enough, I am not one to pull the trigger unless Im sure im going to hit, and its my last option. I can reload it in about 2.5 seconds, though I know that probably would not help me If I was getting charged. There are mountain lions up there, but they are very very uncommon, I have never seen one in that area, the P22 will not leave my hip, and it is loaded with Velocitators, the shotgun will be next to me when Im sleeping, with me at all times at night, and under the seat of my jeep during the day. My cuz is coming also, and is bringing his 870 and his .357, so Im not too worried, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of running screaming for him if something happens. Really need to hurry up and save up for that Glock 20

September 3, 2009, 12:26 AM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Roy, A bear that commences a charge from 100 yards does not need to be under 80 for me to determine I am in need of self defense weaponry. But you failed to read the context cues... I was actually saying that a smoothbore is ideal as the need for bear defense from 65 and less yards is more likely Sorry I confused you. I said I do not suggest a rifle bore as it is for sabot only and the defense is going to be under 65. Under 65, I would rather hurl a big ol' glob of lead weighed in ounces rather than grains anyway. Brent

September 3, 2009, 07:20 AM	#10
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Roy, I feel that if you shoot and report, distance won't matter. You will have tracks that indicate running rather than walking. Also an aggressive animal usually lays a far different track than just a running or fleeing animal. Paw shuffles or just "rooster tail" dirt/organic debris remnants will tell the story. it isn't just your story. If you shoot and do not report, you will look like a poacher or at minimum a "wanton waste of wildlife" suspect. Unlike a human on hard ground, the forensics of tracks etc. will be evident on the ground. No DNR official in the nation has a predetermined "legal defense distance" to work from. As far as I know, all the laws read basically the same in most states... simply, "You will have the right to use any force necessary to prevent/avoid attack from a predator animal if you feel threatened for life or limb..." Brent

September 3, 2009, 07:39 AM	#12
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	One possible defense of a hundred yard shot is the possibility that the animal will opt to cease and desist the charge out of fear. So you could claim the first shot was intended to save the life of the animal. I am sure in florida that a 65-80 yard shot would be deemed a good defensive plan so long as you immediately call it in to FWC. Also like i said tracks tell the story. In Fla, our sandy soil is VERY EASY to "read" and will be painfully obvious if the animal was walking, trotting or running. Remember, the gait of a walk, trot and sprint results in totally different laydown of paws. A bear at sprint pulls both fronts and rears together where a walk or trot is an offset fronts and offset rears. It pays to know these things yourself should you ever have to defend yourself... not many lawyers have the where with all to even investigate, defend you on this aspect. Brent

September 3, 2009, 07:46 AM	#14
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	AMEN, Skydiver! I ain't waiting to smell the sweetrolls and cheese danish on his breath to go to work! My life is far to fragile and valuable to draw a line in the sand and await him to cross before opening fire. The exact moment my aware self feels he has me in his sights for aggressive approach is the exact moment i shoulder my gun and commence implementing my self defense survival plan. Brent