Lightening the Trigger pull on the 1858 ?

Hylander · February 25, 2011, 02:23 AM

Are there any aftermarket springs to lighten trigger pull.
Or any DIY Tips
Mine is about #4.5
I would like to get it to about #3.5

Bill Akins · February 25, 2011, 03:05 AM

Funny you should ask that tonight Hylander. As it happens, tonight I was improving the trigger pull on my Pietta 1858 Remy.

About a week ago I had taken the trigger and hammer out of the frame and carefully stoned their engagement surfaces. Then I really polished them real good. But it is very hard when the trigger and hammer are out of the revolver to tell the exact angle of how they engage. So sometimes I am not dead on with my stoning and polishing so that the trigger to hammer sear engagement surfaces sometimes are not exactly perfect. That happened in this instance. It had improved and lessened the trigger pull some, but not as much as I would like.

So tonight, I used an old trick I've used in the past. I took the cylinder out and the trigger guard plate off and removed the bolt spring and trigger and put a healthy blob of toothpaste mixed with common talcum powder into the innards where the trigger and hammer engage each other. Then I put the trigger and bolt spring back in and screwed the trigger guard plate back on and added just a leeetle bit of water from a spoon into the opening of the frame where the trigger comes out and held the revolver upside down while I worked the action so the water would mix well with the toothpaste/talcum powder. You don't want much water though. You can even do it without water but I found that just a tiny bit of water helps to keep the mixture flowing around the parts whereas if it was just the paste with no water, it wouldn't flow around and get on the trigger and hammer engagements like I want.

Leaving the cylinder out, I sat down while watching t.v. and held tight pressure forward against the hammer while it was cocked. Much tighter than just the pressure from the hammer spring. Then pulled the trigger against that pressure while keeping the hammer from bottoming out against the frame. One way to do it is you can curl your index finger around the curved part of the hammer while you push forward with your left thumb. That keeps the hammer from bottoming out. You will pinch your finger with the hammer keeping it from bottoming out against the frame (and dinging the hammer edges) a few times before you get the hang of it. But after a while you will find you can do it one handed by pressing forward on the hammer with your right thumb and also stopping the hammer with your right thumb before it hits the frame. All you need to do is to hold hard pressure forwardly against the hammer until the trigger releases it, then pull it back and do it again. Just a small movement really to polish your trigger to hammer surfaces engagements. You'll figure it out after a few times. The important thing is to keep a good pressure on the hammer forwardly while you pull the trigger. This forces the parts to polish against each other.

I did it over and over and over again. I'm still not finished doing it and will continue until the toothpaste and talcum powder fine grit polishes my trigger to hammer sear surfaces in place. Pressing forward against the hammer while pulling the trigger forces the trigger and hammer engagement surfaces to forcefully friction against each other and with the toothpaste/talcum powder fine grit, that acts to polish those surface while they are exactly engaged with each other.

After doing it probably several hundred times, WITHOUT the cylinder in the revolver (to preclude dinging nipples), I did a few dry snaps. I noticed that my trigger pull was appreciably better. Probably a little less than half what it was before I started. I'm going to continue doing it until I get the trigger pull just like I want it. Less hard trigger pull equates to better accuracy for me.

Another thing to do is to loosen the hammer spring tension screw on the outside of the grip frame. You don't need that much tension to pop a cap and a tighter than it needs to be hammer spring makes your trigger pull harder by increasing the pressure of the hammer sear surface against the trigger. Similar to how you increased the hammer pressure against the trigger when you pushed forward on the hammer while pulling the trigger in order to polish their surfaces with the toothpast/talcum powder mix. Only then you were doing it on purpose to force the parts to friction hard against each other to polish them to each other. You don't want your hammer forward pressure like that all the time and loosening the hammer spring will definitely help your trigger pull.

Loosen the hammer spring tension screw some and work the hammer back and forth. When you get to the point where the hammer doesn't go all the way into the frame with authority as you ease the hammer gently into the frame, then tighten the hammer spring up just a leetle. Then try popping a few caps. If they pop okay, then you are good. Trial and error here to find just the right hammer spring tension so that it isn't too much to increase trigger pull pressure, and not too little to pop a cap.

Hope this helped you.

.

Hylander · February 25, 2011, 09:52 AM

Thansk Bill,
I have some honing stones, lapping compounds and Flitz, I'll get to polishing the innards tonight and adjust the hammer spring

Hellgate · February 25, 2011, 08:05 PM

Bill,
Have you considered hardening the trigger with Kasenite after getting the polishing done? That way maybe you could restore the surface hardening so the trigger sear doesn't wear.

wogpotter · February 25, 2011, 08:17 PM

Have you tried adjusting the mainspring tension screw alone first?
Before I did anything non-reversible I'd try that first & proceed to more drastic permanent changes later if they were called for.

Bill Akins · February 25, 2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Hellgate wrote:
Bill,
Have you considered hardening the trigger with Kasenite after getting the polishing done? That way maybe you could restore the surface hardening so the trigger sear doesn't wear.

No I haven't Hellgate. My Remy is stainless. Will the Kasenite work on stainless and is there any special way to apply and use the kasenite on stainless? Wouldn't I have to apply the kasenite to both the trigger and hammer sear and not just to the trigger to harden them both to prevent wear on both?

Sorry Hylander, not trying to hijack your thread here, but you might want to know what Hellgate is talking about too.

.

Hellgate · February 25, 2011, 09:08 PM

I am no metalurgist so take my suggestion accordingly. My experience has been that the stainless guns overall have harder steel. I have not hardened any hammers as I do not have a big enough torch or a forge but a propane torch is fine for small parts like triggers. I don't mess with the hammer sear. I'd be skeered to try to harden a stainless part til I knew that it needed doing. They may be hard enough as is. The parts I've hardened have been triggers on soft Piettas and ASMs after messing with the trigger sears.

Bill Akins · February 25, 2011, 11:05 PM

Couple of other things Hylander.

There are several areas where fouling can get down into your internal action on your Remy. One is where fouling can get down into the opening where the hammer is. Another, but more limited space it can get through, is the opening for your bolt. Another is the slot for your cylinder hand/pawl. If you use gun oil or sewing machine oil, this fouling immediately sticks to that oil and makes the oil more a sludge and less lubricating. So I use a dry teflon spray lubricant (available at home depot) on my internals that the fouling won't stick to. The liquid carrier carries the teflon in the spray, but then the carrier dries up and just leaves a dry teflon coating that fouling won't stick to. Make sure you get the blue can that says..."Dupont, Teflon, Multi-use, Dry, Wax lubricant".

As Wogpotter pointed out, first try lessening your hammer's mainspring to see if that gives the trigger pull you want before you use the toothpaste foot powder or another fine grit polishing mix to polish the trigger to hammer sear surfaces in place like I described earlier.

Also, let me know how my toothpaste and foot powder mix works for you in polishing your trigger to hammer sear engagements and how well it lightens your trigger pull for you. I know it works for me. Foot powder/baby powder, is Talc (magnesium silicate) and along with the slightly coarser toothpaste grit, acts as a very fine polishing material for the in place trigger to hammer sear polishing I have described previously.

Just remember to press forward firmly on your cocked hammer at the same time as you repeatedly pull the trigger to force the surfaces to tightly hone against each other with the fine grit mix inside the revolver.

I finished doing my toothpaste & footpowder mix honing tonight. My trigger isn't exactly a hair trigger, but it is a very nice light pull now. I must have firmly pushed the hammer forward and pulled the trigger at the same time probably over 200 times, maybe 300, including last night and today and this evening. It takes time but I am very pleased with my results. Your thumb does get tired! I just washed all the mix out of my Remy and am putting it back together and lubing it with Teflon spray right after this post.
Now my trigger is just like I want it. Let me know how yours turns out Hylander.

.

Hellgate · February 26, 2011, 01:45 PM

Wogpotters suggestion is a great one IF your gun has a functional tension screw. On my Pietta & Euroarms Remingtons there was no effect at all on the mainspring tension as the screws were too short or low on the spring. On my two Uberti Milennium revolvers all I had to do was back out the tension screws all the way then turn them 1/2-3/4 of a turn to beautifully "tune" the action to a nice, smooth "snick" each time they're cocked. Basically, they got an action job and lighter mainspring with the turn of a screw.

Hylander · February 26, 2011, 04:51 PM

Tried to adjust the Main Spring screw.
No go, if I unscrew it at all, I get to weak of Hammer drop.
I'll try polishing the innards.
Alos Trigger is to Curved, I may try straightening it a Tad.

ClemBert · February 26, 2011, 05:00 PM

As others have said, the easiest thing to so is to polish the contact points. I just get my Dremel tool and polish the contact points between the hammer and the trigger. That's the best/easiest starting point.

zippy13 · February 26, 2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Akins

carefully stoned their engagement surfaces… But it is very hard when the trigger and hammer are out of the revolver to tell the exact angle of how they engage.

Brownells has trigger adjustment pins, they allow you to inspect the sear engagement outside of the gun. As long as the trigger and hammer screws are parallel, wouldn't the same procedure work with the 1858? You could make-up two snug fitting pins to project outside the frame, mount the hammer and trigger, and work your stones.

Like the others, I've had good luck just polishing the contact points without changing the sear angle.

Image: Brownells

February 25, 2011, 02:23 AM	#1
Hylander Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2008 Location: California Posts: 128	Lightening the Trigger pull on the 1858 ? Are there any aftermarket springs to lighten trigger pull. Or any DIY Tips Mine is about #4.5 I would like to get it to about #3.5 __________________ Today is my Best Day. Lincoln, Ca.

February 25, 2011, 03:05 AM	#2
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Funny you should ask that tonight Hylander. As it happens, tonight I was improving the trigger pull on my Pietta 1858 Remy. About a week ago I had taken the trigger and hammer out of the frame and carefully stoned their engagement surfaces. Then I really polished them real good. But it is very hard when the trigger and hammer are out of the revolver to tell the exact angle of how they engage. So sometimes I am not dead on with my stoning and polishing so that the trigger to hammer sear engagement surfaces sometimes are not exactly perfect. That happened in this instance. It had improved and lessened the trigger pull some, but not as much as I would like. So tonight, I used an old trick I've used in the past. I took the cylinder out and the trigger guard plate off and removed the bolt spring and trigger and put a healthy blob of toothpaste mixed with common talcum powder into the innards where the trigger and hammer engage each other. Then I put the trigger and bolt spring back in and screwed the trigger guard plate back on and added just a leeetle bit of water from a spoon into the opening of the frame where the trigger comes out and held the revolver upside down while I worked the action so the water would mix well with the toothpaste/talcum powder. You don't want much water though. You can even do it without water but I found that just a tiny bit of water helps to keep the mixture flowing around the parts whereas if it was just the paste with no water, it wouldn't flow around and get on the trigger and hammer engagements like I want. Leaving the cylinder out, I sat down while watching t.v. and held tight pressure forward against the hammer while it was cocked. Much tighter than just the pressure from the hammer spring. Then pulled the trigger against that pressure while keeping the hammer from bottoming out against the frame. One way to do it is you can curl your index finger around the curved part of the hammer while you push forward with your left thumb. That keeps the hammer from bottoming out. You will pinch your finger with the hammer keeping it from bottoming out against the frame (and dinging the hammer edges) a few times before you get the hang of it. But after a while you will find you can do it one handed by pressing forward on the hammer with your right thumb and also stopping the hammer with your right thumb before it hits the frame. All you need to do is to hold hard pressure forwardly against the hammer until the trigger releases it, then pull it back and do it again. Just a small movement really to polish your trigger to hammer surfaces engagements. You'll figure it out after a few times. The important thing is to keep a good pressure on the hammer forwardly while you pull the trigger. This forces the parts to polish against each other. I did it over and over and over again. I'm still not finished doing it and will continue until the toothpaste and talcum powder fine grit polishes my trigger to hammer sear surfaces in place. Pressing forward against the hammer while pulling the trigger forces the trigger and hammer engagement surfaces to forcefully friction against each other and with the toothpaste/talcum powder fine grit, that acts to polish those surface while they are exactly engaged with each other. After doing it probably several hundred times, WITHOUT the cylinder in the revolver (to preclude dinging nipples), I did a few dry snaps. I noticed that my trigger pull was appreciably better. Probably a little less than half what it was before I started. I'm going to continue doing it until I get the trigger pull just like I want it. Less hard trigger pull equates to better accuracy for me. Another thing to do is to loosen the hammer spring tension screw on the outside of the grip frame. You don't need that much tension to pop a cap and a tighter than it needs to be hammer spring makes your trigger pull harder by increasing the pressure of the hammer sear surface against the trigger. Similar to how you increased the hammer pressure against the trigger when you pushed forward on the hammer while pulling the trigger in order to polish their surfaces with the toothpast/talcum powder mix. Only then you were doing it on purpose to force the parts to friction hard against each other to polish them to each other. You don't want your hammer forward pressure like that all the time and loosening the hammer spring will definitely help your trigger pull. Loosen the hammer spring tension screw some and work the hammer back and forth. When you get to the point where the hammer doesn't go all the way into the frame with authority as you ease the hammer gently into the frame, then tighten the hammer spring up just a leetle. Then try popping a few caps. If they pop okay, then you are good. Trial and error here to find just the right hammer spring tension so that it isn't too much to increase trigger pull pressure, and not too little to pop a cap. Hope this helped you. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; February 25, 2011 at 04:17 AM.

February 25, 2011, 08:17 PM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Have you tried adjusting the mainspring tension screw alone first? Before I did anything non-reversible I'd try that first & proceed to more drastic permanent changes later if they were called for. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.” Last edited by wogpotter; February 25, 2011 at 08:28 PM.

February 25, 2011, 09:08 PM	#7
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I am no metalurgist so take my suggestion accordingly. My experience has been that the stainless guns overall have harder steel. I have not hardened any hammers as I do not have a big enough torch or a forge but a propane torch is fine for small parts like triggers. I don't mess with the hammer sear. I'd be skeered to try to harden a stainless part til I knew that it needed doing. They may be hard enough as is. The parts I've hardened have been triggers on soft Piettas and ASMs after messing with the trigger sears. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

February 25, 2011, 11:05 PM	#8
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Couple of other things Hylander. There are several areas where fouling can get down into your internal action on your Remy. One is where fouling can get down into the opening where the hammer is. Another, but more limited space it can get through, is the opening for your bolt. Another is the slot for your cylinder hand/pawl. If you use gun oil or sewing machine oil, this fouling immediately sticks to that oil and makes the oil more a sludge and less lubricating. So I use a dry teflon spray lubricant (available at home depot) on my internals that the fouling won't stick to. The liquid carrier carries the teflon in the spray, but then the carrier dries up and just leaves a dry teflon coating that fouling won't stick to. Make sure you get the blue can that says..."Dupont, Teflon, Multi-use, Dry, Wax lubricant". As Wogpotter pointed out, first try lessening your hammer's mainspring to see if that gives the trigger pull you want before you use the toothpaste foot powder or another fine grit polishing mix to polish the trigger to hammer sear surfaces in place like I described earlier. Also, let me know how my toothpaste and foot powder mix works for you in polishing your trigger to hammer sear engagements and how well it lightens your trigger pull for you. I know it works for me. Foot powder/baby powder, is Talc (magnesium silicate) and along with the slightly coarser toothpaste grit, acts as a very fine polishing material for the in place trigger to hammer sear polishing I have described previously. Just remember to press forward firmly on your cocked hammer at the same time as you repeatedly pull the trigger to force the surfaces to tightly hone against each other with the fine grit mix inside the revolver. I finished doing my toothpaste & footpowder mix honing tonight. My trigger isn't exactly a hair trigger, but it is a very nice light pull now. I must have firmly pushed the hammer forward and pulled the trigger at the same time probably over 200 times, maybe 300, including last night and today and this evening. It takes time but I am very pleased with my results. Your thumb does get tired! I just washed all the mix out of my Remy and am putting it back together and lubing it with Teflon spray right after this post. Now my trigger is just like I want it. Let me know how yours turns out Hylander. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; February 26, 2011 at 04:35 AM.

February 25, 2011, 09:52 AM	#3
Hylander Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2008 Location: California Posts: 128	Thansk Bill, I have some honing stones, lapping compounds and Flitz, I'll get to polishing the innards tonight and adjust the hammer spring __________________ Today is my Best Day. Lincoln, Ca.

February 25, 2011, 08:05 PM	#4
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Bill, Have you considered hardening the trigger with Kasenite after getting the polishing done? That way maybe you could restore the surface hardening so the trigger sear doesn't wear. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

February 26, 2011, 01:45 PM	#9
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Wogpotters suggestion is a great one IF your gun has a functional tension screw. On my Pietta & Euroarms Remingtons there was no effect at all on the mainspring tension as the screws were too short or low on the spring. On my two Uberti Milennium revolvers all I had to do was back out the tension screws all the way then turn them 1/2-3/4 of a turn to beautifully "tune" the action to a nice, smooth "snick" each time they're cocked. Basically, they got an action job and lighter mainspring with the turn of a screw. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

February 26, 2011, 04:51 PM	#10
Hylander Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2008 Location: California Posts: 128	Tried to adjust the Main Spring screw. No go, if I unscrew it at all, I get to weak of Hammer drop. I'll try polishing the innards. Alos Trigger is to Curved, I may try straightening it a Tad. __________________ Today is my Best Day. Lincoln, Ca.

February 26, 2011, 05:00 PM	#11
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	As others have said, the easiest thing to so is to polish the contact points. I just get my Dremel tool and polish the contact points between the hammer and the trigger. That's the best/easiest starting point.