25-06 back to the drawing board

Idfred · August 3, 2014, 06:50 PM

Back in March I purchased a Sako A7 in 25-06 at Cabella's. The rifle came with a 5 shot MOA guarantee. I tried several ammo types but could never get it to MOA group. Cabella's sent the rifle back to Berreta in MD.

After a couple of months and various calls, Berreta decided that they would not or could not repair or replace the rifle and simply refunded the purchase price.

What should I get now?

I want a 25-06 and am thinking of a Weatherby Vanguard Range Certified rifle. Second choice would be a Tikka T3 in 25-06. I like the idea of getting the actual target with the rifle. I am too old to waste time on a guarantee that is not tested.

Thanks,

Mobuck · August 3, 2014, 09:27 PM

I really like Vanguards so that's my suggestion. Just my opinion but I'd hold out for a 24" barrel. My primary 25/06 is a Savage 110 with an aftermarket 24" tube that shoots better than most any rifle on the rack. I also have a 110FP in 25/06 that shoots clover leafs with Remington factory loads and a factory standard 22" 110 in 25/06.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 3, 2014, 09:47 PM

Well, just remember that the word "guarantee" (sub-MOA) is a LOT better than the word "certified" (sub-MOA). The latter means we promise that WE did it. The former means we promise that YOU will do it. Give Sako / Beretta credit here for truly honoring the guarantee - that's something a lot of companies would try to weasel out of - I think.

Doesn't the T/C Icon & Venture (both) come with an actual 1 MOA guarantee? Is the Icon still even being made? That's what I'd do. Or a Winchester 70.

EDIT: On the T/C website, it shows Venture and Dimension but no Icon. Truly a sad day for America.... and proof that people won't pay for quality. These were dirt cheap for the quality you got - around $800 for something that easily topped the mid to mid-high BrownRemChesters? And no one bought them.

And why they're still trying to sell the Dimension is beyond me. I hope they're selling, for their sake, but I don't know anyone who has one. They should have taken the money they spent on R&D on the Dimension and used it to market the Icon. I'm just so forlorn here... will have to fly my flag at half mast. However, at least the Venture is still there - 3/4ths the rifle for just over half the price - not too shabby I suppose. Definitely the best in the "sub-$450" category. Also glad I got my Icon - dang, may have to look for another on the used market since they're gone.

This is what I'd do, if buying new and wanted a .25-'06 in that *general* budget range:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...225&mid=535200

psalm7 · August 3, 2014, 09:58 PM

I have a Ruger M77 in 25 06 that I like . My other bolt guns are Remington 700 all shoot well .

steveNChunter · August 4, 2014, 12:05 AM

Weatherby Vanguard Range Certified = Bingo. That is exactly what I would suggest to you. You get a 24" barrel, which is what the .25-06 needs as a minimum to get the potential out of the cartridge.

The Range Certified model comes with a better composite, pillar bedded stock, and just like all the Vanguards, has the sub-MOA guarantee. You also get a pretty decent factory two-stage trigger that is light and crisp enough for everything but benchrest shooting. The Weatherby (Howa) action is a very close copy of the old Sako L57 action, so you still have some Sako bloodline if that's a plus for you.

You could also look into the Thompson/Center Venture for a good .25-06 with a 24" tube and a sub-MOA guarantee.

Buying a Remington 700 SPS and upgrading the stock would also be worth considering.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 4, 2014, 12:23 PM

And yeah, I agree, it's hard to go wrong with a Vanguard. I guess the "Range Certified" is the new version of "Sub-MOA" where they pull and separate the ones that shoot closer to 1/2 MOA than to 1 MOA at the test firing (then slap the better B&C stocks on those).

I just went and bid on an Icon Classic after lamenting their demise in this thread. Perfect rifle to give to my sister who wants to start hunting again, before they dry up completely.

stevelyn · August 5, 2014, 08:15 AM

Quote:

I want a 25-06 and am thinking of a Weatherby Vanguard Range Certified rifle. Second choice would be a Tikka T3 in 25-06. I like the idea of getting the actual target with the rifle. I am too old to waste time on a guarantee that is not tested.

I don't think you could go wrong by choosing any of the rifles on the above list. I have a Tikka in .30-06 and absolutely love it.

I also have a Zastava Mauser in .25-06, that's rough around the edges but shoots like a laser. I have shot 3-shot groups with the holes touching and 5-shot groups with 4 of the 5 holes touching. And this is with off-the-shelf Remington junk. It loves the 100grainers and groups open slightly with 120s.

I just got dies for it recently and I'm starting to throw some handloads together for testing, but I don't know how I'm going to improve on what it already does.

doofus47 · August 5, 2014, 10:22 AM

I have a friend with a Tikka who loves it, and I've heard no bad things about the Vanguard.
The suggestions about 24" barrel is a good idea.

std7mag · August 5, 2014, 07:09 PM

From my experience with a Vangard, I'd go with the Tikk T3, in a hearbeat!!

Got a Vangard 2 years ago in .243 Win for my daughter.
It did shoot the "guaranteed" 1.5" at 100 yards. For the first 3 rounds....
Second set of 3 rounds was closer to 4".
Third set of 3, 12".

Ya see where I'm going here.

Forestock was tight, I mean tight, against the barrel. I free floated the barrel, and bedded the action. I also put some epoxy in the forestock to stiffen it up.

Sure enough, brought it down to about 3/4" at 100 yards for the first 3 shots.
Thought problem was solved...
NOT!!!
Second set of 3 was again close to 4", 3 set about 12"...

That has been the only gun that I was glad to see go!!!
She traded it in on a bow...

Picher · August 6, 2014, 05:24 AM

std7mag The problem may have been a rough bore that lead to copper fouling. I had that problem, even with my nice .270 Win, but only when shooting Barnes bullets.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 6, 2014, 10:57 AM

Does an all-copper or mostly-copper gilding metal bullet leave *more* copper fouling per shot than a copper-jacketed lead bullet, all other things being equal?

Idfred · August 6, 2014, 10:50 PM

Thanks for all of the advice. I just ordered a Vanguard S2, Range Certified in 25-06 today. I want a rifle that actually comes with the target. I will post a new thread once I try it out.

August 3, 2014, 06:50 PM	#1
Idfred Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Posts: 16	25-06 back to the drawing board Back in March I purchased a Sako A7 in 25-06 at Cabella's. The rifle came with a 5 shot MOA guarantee. I tried several ammo types but could never get it to MOA group. Cabella's sent the rifle back to Berreta in MD. After a couple of months and various calls, Berreta decided that they would not or could not repair or replace the rifle and simply refunded the purchase price. What should I get now? I want a 25-06 and am thinking of a Weatherby Vanguard Range Certified rifle. Second choice would be a Tikka T3 in 25-06. I like the idea of getting the actual target with the rifle. I am too old to waste time on a guarantee that is not tested. Thanks,

August 3, 2014, 09:47 PM	#3
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	Well, just remember that the word "guarantee" (sub-MOA) is a LOT better than the word "certified" (sub-MOA). The latter means we promise that WE did it. The former means we promise that YOU will do it. Give Sako / Beretta credit here for truly honoring the guarantee - that's something a lot of companies would try to weasel out of - I think. Doesn't the T/C Icon & Venture (both) come with an actual 1 MOA guarantee? Is the Icon still even being made? That's what I'd do. Or a Winchester 70. EDIT: On the T/C website, it shows Venture and Dimension but no Icon. Truly a sad day for America.... and proof that people won't pay for quality. These were dirt cheap for the quality you got - around $800 for something that easily topped the mid to mid-high BrownRemChesters? And no one bought them. And why they're still trying to sell the Dimension is beyond me. I hope they're selling, for their sake, but I don't know anyone who has one. They should have taken the money they spent on R&D on the Dimension and used it to market the Icon. I'm just so forlorn here... will have to fly my flag at half mast. However, at least the Venture is still there - 3/4ths the rifle for just over half the price - not too shabby I suppose. Definitely the best in the "sub-$450" category. Also glad I got my Icon - dang, may have to look for another on the used market since they're gone. This is what I'd do, if buying new and wanted a .25-'06 in that general budget range: http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...225&mid=535200 Last edited by Unlicensed Dremel; August 6, 2014 at 10:58 AM.

August 4, 2014, 12:05 AM	#5
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	Weatherby Vanguard Range Certified = Bingo. That is exactly what I would suggest to you. You get a 24" barrel, which is what the .25-06 needs as a minimum to get the potential out of the cartridge. The Range Certified model comes with a better composite, pillar bedded stock, and just like all the Vanguards, has the sub-MOA guarantee. You also get a pretty decent factory two-stage trigger that is light and crisp enough for everything but benchrest shooting. The Weatherby (Howa) action is a very close copy of the old Sako L57 action, so you still have some Sako bloodline if that's a plus for you. You could also look into the Thompson/Center Venture for a good .25-06 with a 24" tube and a sub-MOA guarantee. Buying a Remington 700 SPS and upgrading the stock would also be worth considering. __________________ DEO VINDICE

August 5, 2014, 10:22 AM	#8
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	I have a friend with a Tikka who loves it, and I've heard no bad things about the Vanguard. The suggestions about 24" barrel is a good idea. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

August 3, 2014, 09:27 PM	#2
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I really like Vanguards so that's my suggestion. Just my opinion but I'd hold out for a 24" barrel. My primary 25/06 is a Savage 110 with an aftermarket 24" tube that shoots better than most any rifle on the rack. I also have a 110FP in 25/06 that shoots clover leafs with Remington factory loads and a factory standard 22" 110 in 25/06.

August 3, 2014, 09:58 PM	#4
psalm7 Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2014 Location: Middle TN Posts: 543	I have a Ruger M77 in 25 06 that I like . My other bolt guns are Remington 700 all shoot well .

August 4, 2014, 12:23 PM	#6
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	And yeah, I agree, it's hard to go wrong with a Vanguard. I guess the "Range Certified" is the new version of "Sub-MOA" where they pull and separate the ones that shoot closer to 1/2 MOA than to 1 MOA at the test firing (then slap the better B&C stocks on those). I just went and bid on an Icon Classic after lamenting their demise in this thread. Perfect rifle to give to my sister who wants to start hunting again, before they dry up completely.

August 5, 2014, 07:09 PM	#9
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	From my experience with a Vangard, I'd go with the Tikk T3, in a hearbeat!! Got a Vangard 2 years ago in .243 Win for my daughter. It did shoot the "guaranteed" 1.5" at 100 yards. For the first 3 rounds.... Second set of 3 rounds was closer to 4". Third set of 3, 12". Ya see where I'm going here. Forestock was tight, I mean tight, against the barrel. I free floated the barrel, and bedded the action. I also put some epoxy in the forestock to stiffen it up. Sure enough, brought it down to about 3/4" at 100 yards for the first 3 shots. Thought problem was solved... NOT!!! Second set of 3 was again close to 4", 3 set about 12"... That has been the only gun that I was glad to see go!!! She traded it in on a bow...

August 6, 2014, 05:24 AM	#10
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	std7mag The problem may have been a rough bore that lead to copper fouling. I had that problem, even with my nice .270 Win, but only when shooting Barnes bullets.

August 6, 2014, 10:57 AM	#11
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	Does an all-copper or mostly-copper gilding metal bullet leave more copper fouling per shot than a copper-jacketed lead bullet, all other things being equal?

August 6, 2014, 10:50 PM	#12
Idfred Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Posts: 16	Thanks for all of the advice. I just ordered a Vanguard S2, Range Certified in 25-06 today. I want a rifle that actually comes with the target. I will post a new thread once I try it out.