MAS 36/51

[MJ1]

[raftman]

The Madsen was the last new bolt design that was intended for
service (in Columbia). I have read conflicting reports as to whether
they were ever issued.

Perhaps that one doesn't meet the "major power" part of the statement.

[BlueTrain]

That Madsen is a nice looking rifle (very few rifles are not, if they're in good shape). Is that butt pad what it came with? It's probably not as soft as it looks.

The Madsen company was very early in producing light machine guns and they were widely distributed. After WWII, they also produced an advanced general-purpose machine gun but apparently did not manage to achieve much in the way of significant sales. Their bolt action was also a little late in the game but according to their advertising, they would produce them in just about any rimless cartridge.

The late 1940s and early 1950s were not a boom time for arms makers, as the first ten years after a war usually turn out to be. The M1 was widely distributed along with other American small arms and left over German weapons were also being collected and sold in the world arms market. Even then, new bolt action rifles were still being manufactured in some places, though not of new designs. The newly obsolete Mosin-Nagant rifles were being passed on to their Eastern friends in China, Korea and Southeast Asia. The SKS appeared soon after the war only to be replaced not long after by the AK series, so most of those went into storage for a while. They'll probably show up here someday.

[Mike Irwin]

Guys...

Major power...

MAJOR power.

The last time Denmark qualified as a major power was about 30 minutes before Adm. Lord Nelson opened fire at the Battle of Copenhagen.

In 1936 France WAS a major world military power.

I'm not sure that Columbia has ever qualified as a major power, even in the South America sphere. Brazil and Argentina, yes.

I give India the benefit of the doubt based on the size of their military at the time the .308 Ishapore was adopted, but that's tenuous at best.

[MJ1]

Hmmm and here I thought we were talking about rifles not the Geo-political and economies of the world.

[BlueTrain]

Yeah, well, rifles are pretty closely tied to politics and economies.

[Mike Irwin]

What part of "The MAS 36 was the last bolt action rifle adopted by a major power" isn't about the rifle?


"Shale we move on to typical foods and drinks then."

No, we "shale" (I like that, actually!) not.

This is a firearms forum. Neither food nor beer qualifies as curio and relic firearms.

[DoctorXring]

[TimW77]

"...it was the burial ground for Group Mobile 100 of the French Army who had died almost to a man in 1954."

Not hardly...

With 500 killed, 600 wounded, 800 captured I count at least 1400 survivors.

These 1400 do not include those that made it through the ambushes uninjured.

T.

[shaunpain]

Some fine looking rifles I'm seeing on this thread! Being half French, I recently purchased a MAS 49/56 and have been diving into French firearm history. As to why we persist on badmouthing the French, their military/police, and their gear is preposterous to me. Their innovations in firearms paved the way for everything you know and love today, and their guns are darn sweet, too. If there's one thing I've noticed about most things French, it's that they typically don't skimp on the quality of a product. I'm sure they take their guns just as seriously as they do their cheese and wine

French forces, primarily SF, are deployed all over the world right now as we speak, and actively fight in Afghanistan. And you don't need me to tell you what tough mothers the Legion are!

[SIGSHR]

A visit to the Ossuary at Verdun or the war memorial in any small French town
will enlighten those who belittle le soldat francaise. Perhaps because France has sometimes been a somewhat fickle and prickly ally and since there has been so little French emigration to this country they make a convenient object of derision. I recall in the 1960s similar things were said about Italian milsurps-"Never fired, only dropped once!" but since there is something of an Italian vote in this country saying such things has gone out of fashion, and the 655,000 Italian soldiers who died in WWI would quickly correct anyone who questions their valor.
I have only fired my MAS M1936 with 32ACP in an adaptor cartridge. It is a well designed, well made rifle with a few design quirks-the bayonet and the lack of adjustment in the rear sight, but handles well and fires a round comparable to the 7.62x51. In the hands of properly trained and led troops, it will will do nicely.

[Tikirocker]

I have French Huguenot heritage in my family and any serious student of history would quickly realize that France has produced great armies as far back as the Franks, to the Crusades, through Napoleon to the wars of the 20th century. The France bashing I have noticed seems more based on France not jumping in as allies, when certain other nations say they should jump.

If younger nations had seen the hundreds of years of near constant wars that France has seen on its own soil, they might understand that France has a population that at times has become war weary ... and knows all too well the loss - nobody ought question their bravery and ingenuity as a military nation.

Some might do well to remember that it was the French who aided the U.S against England in the revolutionary wars - their contributions were vital and I say that with an English father, and plenty of pride in my English/Australian families military heritage also.

Tiki.

[Mike Irwin]

OK, this thread is about the MAS 36 rifle.

Anymore discussion about the pros and cons of French military prowess and it will be locked.

[BlueTrain]

Anyone have one with a folding stock? I've seen them in photos but none in person.

[Mike Irwin]

"Anyone have one with a folding stock? I've seen them in photos but none in person."

Say what?

That's a variant of which I've never heard.

Was it supposed to be for airborn troops?

Pre-WW II or post?

[Mike Irwin]

OK, I did a little searching, and found this...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ch&um=1&itbs=1

Pretty darned neat concept.

.
And here are some additional interesting pix...

ah, crap, that's a nested site or something...

In the photos at the above link, click the word "internet" and it will launch another page with more pictures.

[BlueTrain]

Oui, c'est cela.

However, I have to admit it's one of many things I've never seen in person, gun-wise. I suspect the reason is there simply weren't all that many made. It was presumably for airborne use, although American weapons were widely used by the French during that period, particularly M1 carbines, which in fact, other armies used as well. I'll bet the MAS-36 folding stock carbine was easily as pleasant to shoot as a Model 38 Mosin-Nagant.

Someone said they didn't think the rear sight was adjustable. I had one for a while and I'm pretty sure it was adjustable, although my memory of it is not particularly vivid. I do remember the peep sight being on the very small side.

Another form of rifle that, in theory, should be around in greater numbers is a Mauser cavalry carbine. Not the short rifle but the carbine. But I think they're all of WWI or earlier manufacture, since that sort of weapons kind of went out of fashion around that time, being replaced by the all-purpose short rifle. In any case, I think I've seen a grand total of one.

[SIGSHR]

I saw a folding stock MAS 1936 at Sarco years ago. Interesting concept, I wonder how practical and if like the M1A1 Carbine was it was regularly issued.
IIRC the the windage on the MAS1936 is adusted by substituting a peep with the desired amount of offset.

[madcratebuilder]

That folder has some amazing engineering behind it. Lot of work in that, right down to the shorter bayonet. That would be something to find.

Thanks for that link Mike.

[BlueTrain]

While I have no definate information on the subject of the folding stock MAS-36, they were issued and used in combat. Some things do get produced, issued but sit out most of their lives in a box somewhere, only I don't think that was one of them. I doubt they were produced in great numbers. But for that matter, how many M1A1 carbines were made out of the total number of carbines?

Another similiar weapon was the Mosin-Nagant cavalry carbine produced for the Finnish Army. They manufactured it only for the use of mounted units, so not very many were made but they were "regularly" issued. They would be rare.

[BlueTrain]

To throw in a little additional info on those rare Finnish cavalry carbines, which were actually short rifles, here's what I got from a site called "Jaeger Platoon."

There were only 2,200 M/27 cavalry rifles manufactured. I guess that's all they thought they needed. Of those that were still around after the war, 304 were sold in 1960 through Interarms. The remaining that had not been lost in battle were destroyed (as not worth saving) in 1944 but the metal parts were sold as scrap metal, to who, it didn't say. Behold, some of those parts ended up in new stocks and being sold as genuine M/27 rifles, which in part, they were, but in part, were not. Buyer beware.

Another interesting carbine was the Swedish Mauser carbine, which may have been a M/95 (and I'm not going to look it up). I've seen all of one, though they were in a lot of magazine ads back in the early 1960s. As they were made, they were a shade under the legal limit. So rather than throw them back, the importers added a barrel extension of a half-inch or so.

[Gunplummer]

I remember when Numrich Arms had the stocks (Aluminum) for sale. They must have made quite a few if they got a hold of a supply separate from the rifles ?