Worst Full Auto You've Shot?

[SDC]

Define "worst". "Worst" because I couldn't afford to pay for more ammo, definitely the M2 Browning :-). "Worst" because it fired so fast that the fun was over, and I had to wear my thumbs out loading more mags, probably the M11 in .380. From a technical standpoint, I've had more than one "run away" on me, and wouldn't stop firing when the trigger was released, so all you can do is hang on and keep everything going downrange.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Besides the MACs, the one I hit the least with is the old M2 carbine.

Best.

[Johnny Guest]

Perhaps the American 180. Fascinating little gun, and the idea of being able to shoot a lot of full auto cheaply was great. But my friend's gun wasn't cooperating. The big drum jammed often, and I had at least two out-of-battery rounds go off. Made my right ear ring and the little bits of brass and burning powder didn't feel at all good.

I like the US Carbines, but I never learned to hit anything with the M2 on full auto, beyond a very few yards range. Guess I need to go back and try some more.

An original AR10, former Dutch military gun. It had a lot of felt recoil on semi, and was really punishing on full auto, trying to hit from the shoulder. Surprisingly controllable from the hip, though.

Best,
Johnny Guest

[Jamie Young]

Since this thread is getting a lot of traffic...................... I've never viewed alot of full auto guns as being reliable. Are these (under $3000) F/A guns reliable?

Seems like many of them are such hi maintenance their annoying to take to a range. If I get more than a couple malfunctions out of gun I sell it.

[HKP7PSP]

I want them more because we are not supposed to be able to have them. But the $3000 UZI is reliable.

[ACP230]

A lot of subguns that fire from an open bolt (and used to be cheap) are very reliable. One of the most reliable I've shot has been a Madsen M50. It is very simply made, has a slow rate of fire, and just keeps going bangbangbangbangbang as long as you don't use anything but ball ammo in it.

You also have to have good magazines to keep subs running well.

[C.R.Sam]

You also have to have good magazines to keep subs running well.

AMEN.

Sam

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Maybe the MAC is too fast, but that grease gun was BORING! I almost felt like I was standing around waiting for the next round to fire.

We had been firing up MP-5s when somebody brought out an M3A1 to play with. My first burst with it I fired a burst of one... it cycled so slow compared to the MP-5s that I thought I had a malf and let my finger off the trigger before it had fired the next round.

Still, I liked it... it was handy and I could hit what I aimed at; but I've always done better with chuggers like the Uzi and M3 than I have with higher cyclic rate guns (MP5 and Walther MPL being the 2 exceptions).

[MrPink]

Some good observations on the MP5 has me rethinking my "MAC was the worst" post. The problem is I think MP5s are so damn sexy. I did fire a sear conversion once that jammed every few rounds. Turned me off to conversions by Hard Times Armory.

[fed168]

I remember reading an article that Kokalis did awhile back, on the Vector Uzi. He mentioned that most of the sear guns (MP5) had reliability problems. He did not say why though, but I think it may go along the lines of being a parts gun.
I am curious though, were the MP 5s that have been discussed German made? To me that correlates to the problems an LE agency had when they bought their MPs, to find out that the guns were Pakistani manufactured (I found the last incident in the book on the MP 5, Project 64).
Also, what ammo was being shot out of the MPs?

[MrPink]

fed168,

Virtually all of the transferable MP5s are HK Germany conversions of the HK94. Urban legend has it that a few real MP5s made it in before the '68 GCA.

A buddy has a push pin registered receiver MP5 conversion and that runs like a top. It can take advantage of factory MP5 full auto parts so could be more reliable than a sear gun. Except for being chopped, channeled, drilled and remarked, its as close to an MP5 as you can get. Alas PP/RR MP5s carry a 30-40% premium over sear guns.

[george miller]

participated in an wargames exercise,never fired a m60 before and after it was over we were allowed to each fire it 500 rnds live ammo into targets set back 100 yard into a hill..lol,beat my chin up,then shown easier way,by resting your palm over the top and placing your chin on that.not the worst but after i got the hang of it,became the most fun. macs,i dont see how anyone could possably shoot one in each hand on the fa setting and hit anything.

[Oleg Volk]

SW76 was un-ergonomic, climbed badly due to fast rate of fire, had a poor trigger and its stock tended to fold on its own.

Best full-auto was a Grease Gun, simple, controllable and accurate.

MP40 also worked well but seemed complex and some parts are fragile. I'd like to try a PPSh someday... MP5 climbed fairly badly but had decent sights. Had good luck with 1927 Thompson (heavy, accurate) and poor luck with an M1A1 for some reason...couldn't hit much with it.

[Long Path]

Hmmm... I originally was going to say the Madsen, which is foolishly designed (due to a forearm grip safety, you MUST use two hands to fire it!), inelegant (clamshell sheetmetal construction!), and inaccurate. But I have to admit that it's fairly handy (about MP-5 sized), and went bang every time I pulled the trigger. But man, shooting it next to an HK MP-5 made it seem sorry as heck!

Then I thought about the M-11 .380 that I've had some experience with. Most of my disgust for it was the fact that about every 4th round would fly out of the open bolt unfired. But that was really just a function of the bad, bad magazines we were using. The sights are almost a joke on them. I would genuinely rather have a Glock with a good 30 rd magazine than an M11, if I were to be in a firefight.

But then there's that certain M-2 Carbine with the really bad trigger, that I've NEVER been able to hit anything with on full auto, despite trying off and on over the last 20-sumpin' years. But it goes bang, and has decent sights, and can go semi.

The Reising that somebody donated to our P.D. runs like a Swiss watch. According to history, the Marines didn't think much of 'em. I suspect that it needs to stay very clean.

Yep, I think the biggest disappointment I've ever had was the American 180 .22 LR. You spend about half an hour painstakingly loading that big transversely-oriented top-mounted drum magazine up, listening to the promises of "write your name in cursive on a sheet of plywood from 15 yards!" Then you pull the trigger: "Brrrt...!" Jam. Clear. "Brt...!" Jam. Clear. "Brrrrrraaatttt[Hey! it's working! It's working...!]...!" Jam. Clear. Thinking about reloading that danged magazine again. Here. You take it; I'm done with it. Gimme the FN or the 1928 Thompson.

My single best FA experience? Would have to be either a well-suppressed MP-5, or the M-60 off the cliff at 400 yd targets. (Happiness is a growing pile of links and cases to your right. )

[4V50 Gary]

While it worked well, the Beretta M12 smg. Being left handed, it'd throw hot stuff into my face every now & then. Didn't have that problem with any other smg.

[JamesAZ]

"GE mini-gun from Stembridge Arms (the movie guys).

Same mini-gun that was used in one of the Rambo flicks and Predator. Gun was out of time and ruptured case head came back and gave me a third belly button right next to the one made by a .32 ACP.

Shooting live ammo in movie guns sucks"

I shot all of Stembridge's MP-5, Uzis and Beretta SMGs and they all worked flawlessly. The Beretta was the same SMG the Italian cops carry at the airport, the one with the mag well between the pistol grip and the foregrip (the SP-12?). The non-rotating bolt limited muzzle rise to up/down, just like the Uzi. Both fired moderately fast and were very controllable and didn't jam or malfunction in any way. They did feel noticeably chinsier to shoot compared to the MP-5 that rocked.

The MP-5 has a rotating bolt and not only climbs but walks to the upper left of the target with every round fired. It does shoot fast though, even the brass was ejected in tight formation, like the casings were on a belt as they left the ejection port. At the indoor range, I was 10 ringing the paper at the 50 foot extreme end of the range. It was love at first burst, just as long as the bursts were brief (3-5 rounds) and aimed. Those MP-5's could have used flash suppressors because the fireball from the muzzle obliterated my line of sight to the target; I was shooting Lapua 9mm SMG/FSJ (it's a bit hotter load than generic 9mm off the shelf ammunition) whose steel jackets send enough sparks down range to incinerate the paper if it was hung too close. Since then, the MP-5 has been my favorite SMG to shoot for pleasure.

Rental guns are usually in terrible shape, I don't think they accurately represent a responsibly owned and maintained SMG any more than a rental Beretta 92FS that has seen better days, misfiring and jamming after a hard life in the hands of renters and the often cusory maintenance performed between range rentals they get. I'll bet that a lot of botched sear guns are the ones that find their way into range rentals, so I don't see that as an accurate measure of a SMG's utility.

[DrDremel]

As far as the S&W 76, a lot of people shoot the MK760 and think it is the same as the S&W76. The MK760 was a copy that was not of the same quality. I have over 35,000rounds through mine and it has never malfunctioned except when I tried hollowpoints in it. But that does not really count since most subguns don’t like hollowpoints, especially those that were made before hollowpoint ammo was common. The S&W 76 is a good design, the only thing that killed it was the timing of it’s introduction and the fact that the market was pretty saturated with surplus subguns at the time. As far as muzzle climb and controllability, I can out shoot most people with a semi-auto pistol out to 50 yards. In fact during military testing it was noted that it was extremely controllable,more so than the M16. The trigger is heavy but that is not really a bad thing on an open bolt gun. I assume that your assesment was based on shooting a mag or two through it. Or was it from an article? Now to my vote for worst full auto is the Chau, Chau, (I forget the spelling) It was a French gun in 8mm Lebel. Looked like a highpowered Sten with a halfcircle mag with big holes cut out to let dirt in. US adopted it in desperation in WW1 converted to 30-06. The cartridge was too powerful and beat the gun to death quickly. My second choice would be the M14 in full-auto. Great gun in semi, but too light in full auto.

[Sleuth]

JamesAZ, The MP5 does NOT have a rotating bolt! Never did - it locks by two rollers that move into receses in the reciever as the firing pin moves forward.

As to the worst MG, it has to be a Chauchat (WWI French design, forced on the U.S.) I didn't actually shoot it, the owner laid down fired about 10 rounds of 30-06 (a near record for continuous fire with one), and offer it to the rest of us. We saw his bloody elbows and the 6" grooves they left in the dirt - no one took him up on the offer.