Woods Gun

SteelChickenShooter · September 24, 2011, 03:29 PM

I posted a number of times about getting a 45-70 lever action for deer hunting in the rifles section. Today I brought one home with some ammo choices. I have a base and rings if I want to install a scope. I may stick with the open sights. Whatever works well.
Any pros and cons or advice from experienced hunters?
My intended range is less than 100 yards.
I have not fired it yet to compare ammo. I have these on hand:
Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr FTX
Rem express rifle 300gr SJHP
Federal 300 gr soft points
I imagine any will take a deer, and I know the Hornady brand is intended to give you better range.
Anyway, what can you experienced deer hunters say about what I am just trying for the first time?

longranger · September 24, 2011, 04:59 PM

I am a cast bullet guy for anything that will shoot it.The 45-70 absolutely shines with cast bullets.There are a plethora of suitable powders,I have been lately playing with Trail Boss and really like it for nearly everything "cast"
A 45 cal 405gr. hard cast bullet will be accurate and deadly to 200yds.
Remember the 45-70 is the most tested cartridge in U.S. History by the Gov.Everything has been done to it and it rufuses not to show any weakness.
Original "carbine" loads were a 405gr bullet and 55gr.2Fg B/P.The big straight walled cases like to be full for best accuracy,few powders provide enough"fluff" to fill the case with out fillers,Trail Boss does quite nicley and nearly impossible to overload.It also has a nice traditional smokiness to it.It could obscure your vision for follow up shot in calm or no wind situation.I find it a very nice compromise between big charges of smokeless and full charges of B/P.It is a low pressure powder(so is the 45-70) it has been very accurate everthing I have shot it in,32 Win Spl.,41 Mag .44 Mag. I will be using it most of my revolvers and lever rifles.

Shotgun693 · September 24, 2011, 05:10 PM

I don't have much experience with repeaters but have shot game with .45-70 single shots. At 100 yards or less any bullet seems to work ok with a good flat point lead bullet doing the best job of staying together. Punch a .45 hole through any deer's vitals and you'll put meat in the freezer.

Gunplummer · September 24, 2011, 05:52 PM

I ordered a Marlin 45-70 when they brought them back in the early 70's and shot 405 Gr Winchesters out of it. All the "Experts" told me the bullet would drop like a rock at 100 yards. It was really quite impressive at 100 yards for a lever action. I used both and you really can't go wrong with 405 Gr or 300 Gr.

458winshooter · September 26, 2011, 10:02 PM

For your stated purpose of 100 yards or less I would say it is a very good choice.It will reach out there a long way as well.Any of the ammo you have stated to have on hand will be fine do some testing and see what you like best,then practice,practice,practice.Some say the 45-70 kicks like a Georgia mule,I don't notice it in my 1895 CB Marlin but if recoil is a problem for you it is something to be mindful of.The 45-70 is my favorite rifle round by far.If I had gotten it first instead of the 20 odd rifles in my collection I would have stopped collecting long ago.

BfloBill · September 26, 2011, 11:04 PM

I have an 1895M Marlin (.450) and I have used the factory sights, Williams peep sights and a scope. By far my favorite would be the peep sights, they increase your sight radius over the factory sights and give great accuracy at the ranges you mention.

GeauxTide · September 27, 2011, 07:43 PM

Got Skinner Sights on my 1894 and 39M. Best, EVER.

JerryM · September 27, 2011, 07:50 PM

If your eyes are good and young you may not need a scope. However, a scope enables you to make better shots in poor light, and lets you see better in the brush.

Do not buy a variable scope. A quality 2.5X will do a great job on a 45-70 if mounted right. Do not mount it too far to the rear, but as far forward as you can see the full field or nearly so. Otherwise you might suffer a serious cut over the eye. If I were young I would probably try the iron sights and see how I liked them.

Jerry

bswiv · September 27, 2011, 07:59 PM

Your 45-70 idea is a exellent choice. I've shot a friends a number of times with some of his handloads and it is not hard to handle. He has a Guide Gun.

I posted the picture so you could look at a idea ( I stole it from him...) as to sights. That is a Aimpoint Micro mounted on a Scout Mount atop my old .35 Rem.

And yes I cut the barrel off....it's 18 inches. That would be another good choice. I'm with whoever said big bullets that go through. You'll be surprised at how little meat damage they do.....no hydrostatic shock with the red bloodshot meat from it. At least not near as much as with a HV round.

Alaska444 · September 27, 2011, 08:36 PM

I have Skinner sights on both of my Marlins. I was hitting nearly as good with these peep sights at 100 yards as with my 1.5-5X scope and my .300 WSM. Here in Northern Idaho, most places are pretty tight as far as the woods, so peep sights on my Marlin .444 makes a perfect woods combination coupled with my Buffalo Bore 335 gr bullets that is and my .44 magnum as a BUG.

Deja vu · September 27, 2011, 10:38 PM

I think the 45/70 in a lever gun is a great hunting rifle. My Grandfather loved the 45/70. I once saw him shoot a deer at about 250-300 yards with it. When I shoot my Marlins I try to keep the shots under 150 yards.

My father is in to 30-06 so he was not a lot of help with the 45/70 and unfortunately my grand father passed before I could learn much from him. What I know about long shots with the 45/70 I mostly learned from Cowboy action shooting. I have seen people shoot 400 yard targets and still hit a standard target.

All that said I would not attempt to shoot any thing but a target at that range. Bullet drop is extreme at those ranges but there are people that have practiced a lot with there 45/70s and can shoot very long shots.

I recently bought a Cabelas scope for the 45/70 Leverevolution bullets. I have tried it at 200 yards and I think I could hunt at 200 yards with this ammo and scope. The scope all so has a 300 yard line but because of the drop there is a huge distance between the 200 yard and the 300 yard. I feel that it needs a 250 yard line as well.

It all most looks like this in the scope:

100------+-------

200------+-------

300------+------

as you can see the 300 yard is near the bottom of the scope. I have not tried 300 yard shots yet but may be this will work. The 45/70 has the power to kill at 300 yards if the shooter can do his part.

SteelChickenShooter · September 28, 2011, 03:58 PM

Thanks for the tips so far. One reply reminded me that I could not see my rifle sights in the woods close to quitting time, but on a different gun, with the scope set at 2X, I did seem to get an extra 10 minutes or so. It's darker in the woods and not easy to see even though it is still legal time. Other posts mention distance. My plan is to use my scoped 30-30 with Hornady LeverEvolution ammo in places where I could set up with a possible 200 yard shot. I like the idea of the iron sight 45-70 for less than 100 yards and in the woods. I like the lines of an unscoped lever action rifle. In some cases I think a scope sort of ruins the appeal- even though they certainly can improve accuracy, visibility, and the probability of getting a good hit. I have not fired this 45-70 yet, so I am looking forward to trying it this weekend. I'll evaluate the three ammo brands I have and see how well I can do with it. I have the scope to install if I find my results aren't good enough with open sights. And I'd like to check into other sighting options like the peep sights mentioned in some of the replies.

JACK308 · September 28, 2011, 04:09 PM

I would start from a .44 mag. and go up to maybe a 45/70

SteelChickenShooter · September 29, 2011, 03:12 PM

I would not disagree with that. I wanted a 44 Mag rifle, but I sort of ruled it out since I have some rifled barrel shotguns that can meet or exceed that.
It happened that I wanted another rifle for a particular region in mind, and I might have bought a 44 Mag, but my local dealer had the 45-70 in stock, so I bought it. This is a Marlin stainless.

A different project involves a different lever action rifle in a different thread.

I like the idea of a lever action pistol cartridge for plinking. So I set out to get a Henry Big Boy in 357 Mag to shoot bowling pins and steel plates using 38 Special. Would not surprise me if one day I loaded it with 357 Mag for close range deer hunting in the woods. If it works well enough, I may not get to a lever action in 44 Mag.

I know what some of you guys are thinking, and you don't even need to post it. I should get the 44 Mag rifle regardless of all my stupid rambling and reasoning. I bet I get one anyway.

mete · September 29, 2011, 05:09 PM

45-70 is great for deer and black bear [and a few other things ] I use a 300 gr .I found the typical 300 is a bit soft as is the Leverlution.I now use the Win Partition [Nosler] The recoil less than the 405.Second shots are not needed !

A ghost ring peep makes a good iron sight but I use a 1x4 scope to find openings in brush. The 45-70 like any other can be deflected -don't believe the "brush busting " talk.

RevGeo · September 30, 2011, 10:32 AM

45-70 is an excellent cartridge for what the OP desires in a deer rifle. It is plenty of gun for deer, bear, elk and moose. I had an original '73 trapdoor full length rifle that I loaded with a hard cast 405gr bullet and 70gr of FF black.
I killed several deer and one cow elk with it. Never should have sold that gun.

The Mod.95 Marlin is a wonderful gun that will handle handloads far beyond the factory cartridge specs. I find the micro groove barrel handles cast bullets quite well, but I usually load jacketed 400gr bullets with 45 gr. of IMR 3031. It would probably handle a little more powder but that is the most accurate load in my rifle. IMR 4320 is also a good powder for the 45-70.

George

SteelChickenShooter · October 8, 2011, 03:39 AM

I had no idea this was such a wonderful rifle!
Shot it for the first time testing three ammo brands.
This stainless steel Marlin 45-70 is one sweet shooter.
There's something about it I can't put into words.
It just works and feels so right.
The size, the round, the heft, the lines- something just makes it ideal to me.
I told one guy I could sell my 30-30 and be totally happy with this 45-70 alone.
It did not kick like I expected it might. Took a total of two shots to zero it.
I did put a scope on it and this one happens to be the first Redfield brand I ever had.
Guys at the range tell me this particular action is more smooth than others they've seen. It sure operates pretty well to me.
I guess I'm way behind the curve on this one. Should have had this rifle long ago. Many guys say the 30-30 is the perfect deer gun. I suppose it might be as it certainly has taken a lot of deer over the years. I seem to favor larger bullets in cases like this. To me, this Marlin 45-70 seems to be the perfect deer gun. Just thinking about where I go (north) and where I hunt (woods)- I am very well pleased with my range experience and am looking forward to carrying it in November.
Sometimes my range shooting does not produce good results as found in a shotgun or pistol post here & there.
I am one happy camper right from the start with this one!

Alaska444 · October 8, 2011, 04:06 AM

Some friends and I went shooting last Wednesday. I took my Marlin .444 with Skinner Peep sights. I shot a 1 inch group at 100 yards, albeit 3 inches low consistently. I will need to shave off a bit off of the front site to adjust, but the fact is the Skinner Peep sight with a 0.96 aperture gives great accuracy at 100 yards or less.

If you are looking for a woods gun in 45-70, take a look at the Skinner sights designed specifically for the Marlin rifles.

SteelChickenShooter · October 8, 2011, 02:16 PM

Oddly enough it's funny you mentioned the topic. I was at the Skinner web site last night reviewing the sights. I was curious about which hole size would be right- and now you've answered the question. Truth is, I do have the scope on the gun but I'm not crazy about it. Yes it works fine and no there are no problems. And yes I am very well pleased with range results. It certainly provides visibility while zeroing in at the range. But I have to think zeroing at the range and shooting at a deer must be a lot different. I don't care for the way the scope alters the looks and curb appeal of this rifle even though the guys think it is one good looking gun. The scope is not too large and it is mounted very low. I think it is likely I will try a Skinner.

September 24, 2011, 03:29 PM	#1
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	Woods Gun I posted a number of times about getting a 45-70 lever action for deer hunting in the rifles section. Today I brought one home with some ammo choices. I have a base and rings if I want to install a scope. I may stick with the open sights. Whatever works well. Any pros and cons or advice from experienced hunters? My intended range is less than 100 yards. I have not fired it yet to compare ammo. I have these on hand: Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr FTX Rem express rifle 300gr SJHP Federal 300 gr soft points I imagine any will take a deer, and I know the Hornady brand is intended to give you better range. Anyway, what can you experienced deer hunters say about what I am just trying for the first time?

September 26, 2011, 10:02 PM	#5
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	45-70 woods gun For your stated purpose of 100 yards or less I would say it is a very good choice.It will reach out there a long way as well.Any of the ammo you have stated to have on hand will be fine do some testing and see what you like best,then practice,practice,practice.Some say the 45-70 kicks like a Georgia mule,I don't notice it in my 1895 CB Marlin but if recoil is a problem for you it is something to be mindful of.The 45-70 is my favorite rifle round by far.If I had gotten it first instead of the 20 odd rifles in my collection I would have stopped collecting long ago.

September 27, 2011, 07:50 PM	#8
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	If your eyes are good and young you may not need a scope. However, a scope enables you to make better shots in poor light, and lets you see better in the brush. Do not buy a variable scope. A quality 2.5X will do a great job on a 45-70 if mounted right. Do not mount it too far to the rear, but as far forward as you can see the full field or nearly so. Otherwise you might suffer a serious cut over the eye. If I were young I would probably try the iron sights and see how I liked them. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

September 27, 2011, 10:38 PM	#11
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	I think the 45/70 in a lever gun is a great hunting rifle. My Grandfather loved the 45/70. I once saw him shoot a deer at about 250-300 yards with it. When I shoot my Marlins I try to keep the shots under 150 yards. My father is in to 30-06 so he was not a lot of help with the 45/70 and unfortunately my grand father passed before I could learn much from him. What I know about long shots with the 45/70 I mostly learned from Cowboy action shooting. I have seen people shoot 400 yard targets and still hit a standard target. All that said I would not attempt to shoot any thing but a target at that range. Bullet drop is extreme at those ranges but there are people that have practiced a lot with there 45/70s and can shoot very long shots. I recently bought a Cabelas scope for the 45/70 Leverevolution bullets. I have tried it at 200 yards and I think I could hunt at 200 yards with this ammo and scope. The scope all so has a 300 yard line but because of the drop there is a huge distance between the 200 yard and the 300 yard. I feel that it needs a 250 yard line as well. It all most looks like this in the scope: 100------+------- 200------+------- 300------+------ as you can see the 300 yard is near the bottom of the scope. I have not tried 300 yard shots yet but may be this will work. The 45/70 has the power to kill at 300 yards if the shooter can do his part. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

September 29, 2011, 05:09 PM	#15
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	45-70 is great for deer and black bear [and a few other things ] I use a 300 gr .I found the typical 300 is a bit soft as is the Leverlution.I now use the Win Partition [Nosler] The recoil less than the 405.Second shots are not needed ! A ghost ring peep makes a good iron sight but I use a 1x4 scope to find openings in brush. The 45-70 like any other can be deflected -don't believe the "brush busting " talk. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

September 24, 2011, 04:59 PM	#2
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	I am a cast bullet guy for anything that will shoot it.The 45-70 absolutely shines with cast bullets.There are a plethora of suitable powders,I have been lately playing with Trail Boss and really like it for nearly everything "cast" A 45 cal 405gr. hard cast bullet will be accurate and deadly to 200yds. Remember the 45-70 is the most tested cartridge in U.S. History by the Gov.Everything has been done to it and it rufuses not to show any weakness. Original "carbine" loads were a 405gr bullet and 55gr.2Fg B/P.The big straight walled cases like to be full for best accuracy,few powders provide enough"fluff" to fill the case with out fillers,Trail Boss does quite nicley and nearly impossible to overload.It also has a nice traditional smokiness to it.It could obscure your vision for follow up shot in calm or no wind situation.I find it a very nice compromise between big charges of smokeless and full charges of B/P.It is a low pressure powder(so is the 45-70) it has been very accurate everthing I have shot it in,32 Win Spl.,41 Mag .44 Mag. I will be using it most of my revolvers and lever rifles.

September 24, 2011, 05:10 PM	#3
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	I don't have much experience with repeaters but have shot game with .45-70 single shots. At 100 yards or less any bullet seems to work ok with a good flat point lead bullet doing the best job of staying together. Punch a .45 hole through any deer's vitals and you'll put meat in the freezer.

September 24, 2011, 05:52 PM	#4
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I ordered a Marlin 45-70 when they brought them back in the early 70's and shot 405 Gr Winchesters out of it. All the "Experts" told me the bullet would drop like a rock at 100 yards. It was really quite impressive at 100 yards for a lever action. I used both and you really can't go wrong with 405 Gr or 300 Gr.

September 26, 2011, 11:04 PM	#6
BfloBill Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Buffalo, N.Y. Posts: 457	I have an 1895M Marlin (.450) and I have used the factory sights, Williams peep sights and a scope. By far my favorite would be the peep sights, they increase your sight radius over the factory sights and give great accuracy at the ranges you mention.

September 27, 2011, 07:43 PM	#7
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Got Skinner Sights on my 1894 and 39M. Best, EVER.

September 27, 2011, 07:59 PM	#9
bswiv Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: NE FL....... Posts: 1,081	Your 45-70 idea is a exellent choice. I've shot a friends a number of times with some of his handloads and it is not hard to handle. He has a Guide Gun. I posted the picture so you could look at a idea ( I stole it from him...) as to sights. That is a Aimpoint Micro mounted on a Scout Mount atop my old .35 Rem. And yes I cut the barrel off....it's 18 inches. That would be another good choice. I'm with whoever said big bullets that go through. You'll be surprised at how little meat damage they do.....no hydrostatic shock with the red bloodshot meat from it. At least not near as much as with a HV round.

September 27, 2011, 08:36 PM	#10
Alaska444 Junior member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Posts: 1,231	I have Skinner sights on both of my Marlins. I was hitting nearly as good with these peep sights at 100 yards as with my 1.5-5X scope and my .300 WSM. Here in Northern Idaho, most places are pretty tight as far as the woods, so peep sights on my Marlin .444 makes a perfect woods combination coupled with my Buffalo Bore 335 gr bullets that is and my .44 magnum as a BUG.

September 28, 2011, 03:58 PM	#12
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	Thanks for the tips so far. One reply reminded me that I could not see my rifle sights in the woods close to quitting time, but on a different gun, with the scope set at 2X, I did seem to get an extra 10 minutes or so. It's darker in the woods and not easy to see even though it is still legal time. Other posts mention distance. My plan is to use my scoped 30-30 with Hornady LeverEvolution ammo in places where I could set up with a possible 200 yard shot. I like the idea of the iron sight 45-70 for less than 100 yards and in the woods. I like the lines of an unscoped lever action rifle. In some cases I think a scope sort of ruins the appeal- even though they certainly can improve accuracy, visibility, and the probability of getting a good hit. I have not fired this 45-70 yet, so I am looking forward to trying it this weekend. I'll evaluate the three ammo brands I have and see how well I can do with it. I have the scope to install if I find my results aren't good enough with open sights. And I'd like to check into other sighting options like the peep sights mentioned in some of the replies.

September 28, 2011, 04:09 PM	#13
JACK308 Junior member Join Date: July 10, 2011 Posts: 377	I would start from a .44 mag. and go up to maybe a 45/70

September 29, 2011, 03:12 PM	#14
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	I would not disagree with that. I wanted a 44 Mag rifle, but I sort of ruled it out since I have some rifled barrel shotguns that can meet or exceed that. It happened that I wanted another rifle for a particular region in mind, and I might have bought a 44 Mag, but my local dealer had the 45-70 in stock, so I bought it. This is a Marlin stainless. A different project involves a different lever action rifle in a different thread. I like the idea of a lever action pistol cartridge for plinking. So I set out to get a Henry Big Boy in 357 Mag to shoot bowling pins and steel plates using 38 Special. Would not surprise me if one day I loaded it with 357 Mag for close range deer hunting in the woods. If it works well enough, I may not get to a lever action in 44 Mag. I know what some of you guys are thinking, and you don't even need to post it. I should get the 44 Mag rifle regardless of all my stupid rambling and reasoning. I bet I get one anyway.

September 30, 2011, 10:32 AM	#16
RevGeo Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2011 Location: North Idaho Posts: 161	45-70 is an excellent cartridge for what the OP desires in a deer rifle. It is plenty of gun for deer, bear, elk and moose. I had an original '73 trapdoor full length rifle that I loaded with a hard cast 405gr bullet and 70gr of FF black. I killed several deer and one cow elk with it. Never should have sold that gun. The Mod.95 Marlin is a wonderful gun that will handle handloads far beyond the factory cartridge specs. I find the micro groove barrel handles cast bullets quite well, but I usually load jacketed 400gr bullets with 45 gr. of IMR 3031. It would probably handle a little more powder but that is the most accurate load in my rifle. IMR 4320 is also a good powder for the 45-70. George

October 8, 2011, 03:39 AM	#17
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	Range Report I had no idea this was such a wonderful rifle! Shot it for the first time testing three ammo brands. This stainless steel Marlin 45-70 is one sweet shooter. There's something about it I can't put into words. It just works and feels so right. The size, the round, the heft, the lines- something just makes it ideal to me. I told one guy I could sell my 30-30 and be totally happy with this 45-70 alone. It did not kick like I expected it might. Took a total of two shots to zero it. I did put a scope on it and this one happens to be the first Redfield brand I ever had. Guys at the range tell me this particular action is more smooth than others they've seen. It sure operates pretty well to me. I guess I'm way behind the curve on this one. Should have had this rifle long ago. Many guys say the 30-30 is the perfect deer gun. I suppose it might be as it certainly has taken a lot of deer over the years. I seem to favor larger bullets in cases like this. To me, this Marlin 45-70 seems to be the perfect deer gun. Just thinking about where I go (north) and where I hunt (woods)- I am very well pleased with my range experience and am looking forward to carrying it in November. Sometimes my range shooting does not produce good results as found in a shotgun or pistol post here & there. I am one happy camper right from the start with this one!

October 8, 2011, 04:06 AM	#18
Alaska444 Junior member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Posts: 1,231	Some friends and I went shooting last Wednesday. I took my Marlin .444 with Skinner Peep sights. I shot a 1 inch group at 100 yards, albeit 3 inches low consistently. I will need to shave off a bit off of the front site to adjust, but the fact is the Skinner Peep sight with a 0.96 aperture gives great accuracy at 100 yards or less. If you are looking for a woods gun in 45-70, take a look at the Skinner sights designed specifically for the Marlin rifles.

October 8, 2011, 02:16 PM	#19
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	Skinner Oddly enough it's funny you mentioned the topic. I was at the Skinner web site last night reviewing the sights. I was curious about which hole size would be right- and now you've answered the question. Truth is, I do have the scope on the gun but I'm not crazy about it. Yes it works fine and no there are no problems. And yes I am very well pleased with range results. It certainly provides visibility while zeroing in at the range. But I have to think zeroing at the range and shooting at a deer must be a lot different. I don't care for the way the scope alters the looks and curb appeal of this rifle even though the guys think it is one good looking gun. The scope is not too large and it is mounted very low. I think it is likely I will try a Skinner.