Gov Signs AB962 (Ammo bill) in CA - Page 2

javabum · October 14, 2009, 02:24 PM

Everything i have seen or read says nothing about an ammo limit.

jg0001 · October 15, 2009, 02:16 PM

I have to say, I'm almost glad NJ's law (effective 2008 or 2009) requires only to show the FPID card every gun owner in NJ would have already anyway.

Had NJ not had this law just passed, I imagine they would just as happily dupe CA's more stringent law.

Sad.

armsmaster270 · October 15, 2009, 07:02 PM

The City of Sacramento has had this law in force for awhile now and officers check the logs for known felons then get a search warrant on the strength of the purchase as felons can't have guns. To date about 50 felons are back in prison and I can't remember how many guns recoverd but it was in the hundreds.
As for myself I will not pay retail for ammo So when I buy in bulk it will be drop shipped to my Bro in Laws in Reno.

broadsidejohn · October 18, 2009, 01:01 AM

By the way, can anyone out there tell me if I can buy ammo from a shop in Nevada or Arizona, or do they have laws forbidding California residents from purchase, as they do firearms?

Skyyr · October 18, 2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

By the way, can anyone out there tell me if I can buy ammo from a shop in Nevada or Arizona, or do they have laws forbidding California residents from purchase, as they do firearms?

Yes, you can buy anything you want outside of your state as long as it isn't against Federal law. Now, it may not be legal to bring back into your state - that's something you'll have to go over with by yourself and/or with someone who knows the new laws very well. As far as the buying part, however, yes, that's completely legal.

roy reali · October 18, 2009, 07:54 AM

How are they going to handle BB's. There are handguns that fire them. Then there are the rubber band shooting pistols. Is Office Max going to ask what the package of rubber bands are going to be used for?

fastforty · October 19, 2009, 04:23 PM

Oh it's gonna hafta extend further then that. The paperclips that you shoot with those rubber bands are far more lethal then the rubber bands alone.

Yes, when you stretch a rubber band between your thumb and index finger, hook a paperclip over it & pull back, you have "manufactured a handgun".

If you have a buncha paperclips sticking up off of the cover page of the latest addition of Shooting Times for quick & easy access, you have in your possession a "magazine capable of holding more then ten rounds" that was manufactured after the ban.

Tex S · October 19, 2009, 09:34 PM

Sounds like its time to start reloading for all you Californians.

I still don't understand why you folks don't just move.

fastforty · October 19, 2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

I still don't understand why you folks don't just move.

I'm sure it's been hashed out before, but....

1) If we roll over & play dead (ie: "move") YOU will soon be facing the same problems that we are, even if you live in Texas. We are fighting the battle so you don't have to.

2) Most of us have substantial assets here, liquidating them would be a logistics nightmare.

3) Heritage- it's OURS & we won't give it up any faster then you would give up Texas.

4) Rights and principals (numerous).

5) etc.

roy reali · October 20, 2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

1) If we roll over & play dead (ie: "move") YOU will soon be facing the same problems that we are, even if you live in Texas. We are fighting the battle so you don't have to.

Good for you, keep fighting. But in some ways it sort of reminds me of that scene from Monty Python And the Holy Grail. The one where King Arthur has just sliced the last leg off the Black Knight. The Black Knight is down on his stubs, looks up at Arthur and wants to call the fight a draw. I am afraid gun owners in California are sort of like the Black Knight.

The lawmakers are cutting off all your limbs and you want to keep fighting.

csmsss · October 20, 2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

If we roll over & play dead (ie: "move") YOU will soon be facing the same problems that we are, even if you live in Texas. We are fighting the battle so you don't have to

Sounds like a nice slogan, but is entirely meaningless. Unless you are planning to export the anti-gun folks, anyway.

Fact is, your tax dollars are supporting those who who despise you and your attempt to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Let me ask you a question. Do you go back to a restaurant where the cook spits in your food? No, of course not - so why would you try to justify continuing to live in a state where your elected representatives treat you in much the same manner?

sholling · October 20, 2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

so why would you try to justify continuing to live in a state where your elected representatives treat you in much the same manner?

You miss the three main points.

Why should I have to leave the state of my birth to regain my freedom. We're fighting the good fight here and have law suits pending to bring about shall-issue CCW and end the approved handguns list. Others are waiting to for incorporation to sue to end the AWB.
California is so populous that whatever happens here will extend nationwide. If we can beat this movement back we can prevent it from expanding to other states.
The leftists want gun owners to leave California. They want the remaining conservative congressional seats to change party hands and they want more illegals because they bring the state even more congressional seats to California. It's not just a state power grab, it's a national power grab.

Glenn E. Meyer · October 20, 2009, 11:05 AM

The idea that folks should leave California is just silly. How about this:

I left Oregon which had a shall-issue permit system to come to Texas for a significant improvement in my job. However, at the time - Texas didn't have such a system.

If GWB had been beaten by Ann Richards - we might not have had a shall -issue system till who knows when. So, isn't it silly for TX folks to tell CA folks to move. OR folks could have said that I was making a mistake to come to an antigun state.

Why not cut that out and be productive in the debate.

roy reali · October 20, 2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

The idea that folks should leave California is just silly. How about this:

I couldn't agree more. If you live in California and are getting tired of all the stupid laws, don't move. Please stay there and keep fighting. There are some folks around here that have recently moved here from California. I wish they would move back to help the fight. If I had more money, I would even help pay for their move back.

That is an idea. Maybe all us Nevadans can start a fund. We all donate money to folks that want to return to California. Maybe we can give them rides to the border.

Please, let us keep encouraging our brothers and sisters in the Golden State to stay put.

Al Norris · October 20, 2009, 04:48 PM

csmsss, I've been reading this screed for sometime now. Fact is, you, and those who hold your view, are wrong. Running away, never solved the problems you are running away from.

In the sense of 2A rights, running to a friendlier State, merely deprives the former State of proponents that may be able to help affect change.

In the situation of California, those staying to fight, are effecting change. The changes are perhaps small. But they build upon each other. Changes in the 2A at the national level have allowed lawsuits, that would have never been considered at the State level.

The lawmakers and the law interpreters will have a much tougher time in furthering their agenda, when some of the national laws come down.

Almost 2 years ago, I wrote, of the then pending Heller case, "This is perhaps, the single greatest Constitutional case of our time. Both sides of this issue have a great deal to gain as well as lose. Sit back and enjoy the ride... It's about to get wild and hairy!" That line, the last paragraph of a larger article, was published in the May 2008 issue of S.W.A.T. magazine. What has happened since then, has not dampened my spirits in the least. If anything, it has vindicated my writings, as I also said, Washington D.C. will be dragged, kicking and screaming, into compliance with the rights of the people.

That last applies to Illinois, New Jersey, New York (State and City), Maryland and certainly, California.

We don't know the outcome of Nordyke. Sykes and Peǹa are on hold, awaiting the outcome of McDonald. Should these cases go our way, they will herald a new day in CA gun politics. A day that will eventually see an abrupt turnaround for those that have stayed and fought the fight.

So yeah, encourage people to leave CA and watch this forward movement stop.

roy reali · October 20, 2009, 05:56 PM

If any of you Californians are going to move anyway, may I suggest a state like Idaho, Texas, or Arizona. Nevada is an ugly place. There is hardly a tree anywhere. Summers are very hot and winters are very cold. The population density is very low, there is hardly anything to do here for fun. Our deserts have scorpions, tarantulas and rattlesnakes. Our state bird should be the fly.

Yes, the best option is for you is to not move. If you are bent on moving, skip Nevada. I am sure other states are willing to put out the welcome mat for you.

Icanseeyourbits · October 21, 2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

I couldn't agree more. If you live in California and are getting tired of all the stupid laws, don't move. Please stay there and keep fighting. There are some folks around here that have recently moved here from California. I wish they would move back to help the fight. If I had more money, I would even help pay for their move back.

That is an idea. Maybe all us Nevadans can start a fund. We all donate money to folks that want to return to California. Maybe we can give them rides to the border.

Please, let us keep encouraging our brothers and sisters in the Golden State to stay put.

As another Nevadan, I second the motion!

ADB · October 21, 2009, 02:47 AM

I think Antipitas is exactly right. If everybody who likes guns flees to somewhere else, then it's just perpetuating the problem.

Besides, I already live far enough away from the bright lights of civilization--I don't want to have to move to Nebraska just so I can play with my 12 gauge.

Quote:

If any of you Californians are going to move anyway, may I suggest a state like Idaho, Texas, or Arizona. Nevada is an ugly place.

There's a problem with each of your suggestions.

1. Idaho is a great place to have guns as long as you don't mind a 90-mile drive to the nearest gun store.

2. Arizona is still a desert, like Nevada.

3. Texas is full of Texans.

Seriously though if you were moving for the purpose of being in a gun friendly state, by FAR the most gun friendly state in the country is Vermont. You don't even need a permit for concealed carry. I'd like to move there someday, but I'd have to survey the climate first. Growing up in western New York has made me averse to winter.

roy reali · October 21, 2009, 06:03 AM

Quote:

by FAR the most gun friendly state in the country is Vermont.

Brilliant! Not only are the gun laws freindy, they have great maple syrup. Vermont would be the perfect state for Californians that want to move. Again, let me emphasis, the best thing for them to do is remain there. But, Vermont would be a great alternative.

Quote:

As another Nevadan, I second the motion!

See, us Silver Staters are very supportive.

Playboypenguin · October 21, 2009, 12:59 PM

...this law is not really about tracking ammo or the people who buy it. It is really about forcing retail stores to stop selling it due to the redtape and added costs. It is a backhanded way to reduce availability by making large chains just say "it just isn't worth the extra time and manpower."

Just another reason why no one should ever buy guns or supplies from large retailers. If you do and the little guys go out of business you are screwed when the big guys decide to not cater to you anymore...and the big guys are easily swayed by politicians and special interests.

Samuel2001 · October 22, 2009, 01:09 AM

Hell no! We wont go!

Yup I'm in Cali and I aint going anywheres!
That's why we have to register and vote, write letters, e-mails and make a slew of phone calls!
Leaving is not an option for some of us.

Eventually we'll beat these irrational laws. Running is'nt the answer.

broadsidejohn · October 25, 2009, 04:05 PM

All the Nevadans discouraging freedom loving Californians from moving there are funny. What you get is liberals fleeing the hell holes that they create infesting your State instead(see Nevada and Montana). This happens all over, particularly on the East Coast, Where Virginia, West Virginia, etc have turned. Los Angeles City not only fingerprints ammo buyers but has a minimum length restriction on firearms, i.e. no short revolvers or semi-autos. Any kind of ammo is hard to find (except some hunting type rifle ammo), especially .38, .357, .40 and .45. Shotgun is still available. Gun owners are buying whatever they can find because of the plitical regime. If the Rulers here can regulate ammo, that is ersatz gun control from their standpoint. The Gun Controllers always have a conga line of laws ready to push, using the last law as a lever to enact the next one.

ConradJoyce · October 25, 2009, 05:20 PM

We Californians have apparently and gratefully begun to succumb to the notion that the guvment is responsible for the total security of us citizens, pesky remainders of our civil rights notwithstanding, that it is important that we all be kept safe and sound and fat and happy like weiners and steers and whatever that takes, well, that's ok, even if it requires that our rights accompany our dignity right down into the outhouse ditch. Gee, where did I hear that idea before? Wasn't that the crock that the previous federal administration poured all over us after a few crackpot fundamentalist muslims caught our keepers nappin' ?

What we have here is a genuine spiritual impoverishment, weakness glorified and celebrated in our body of law.

I ain't movin' out of California.

You're welcome.

Conrad

roy reali · October 25, 2009, 09:21 PM

I live in a small town. Our main industry is agriculture. It is dusy and dirty here. We have several dairy farms as well, summers bring powerful odors around if you are down wind. We often have large, slow moving farm machines going down our roads. We get air shows all the time, crop dusters are very common here. I love this environment. I escaped the city for this.

Now we have quite a few recent transplants from California here. Some of them, not all of them, want to pass laws regulating the dust and smells we have here. They want to curtail if not stop the crop dusters. They bitch and moan at city hall and supervisors' meeting about the conditions here.

I have one question for these Golden Staters, why the heck did you move here?

At least the feces smell around here is from cows.

broadsidejohn · October 26, 2009, 12:53 AM

Some of you might rightly ask why don't we just reload if ammo is so hard to find? I have never had the patience and desire to reload. I would rather buy from an American company that has professionals who provide high quality product. Five days ago I visited my favorite gun store (outside the City of LA limits) and the owner was explaining to a customer (a long time reloader) that he could get neither powder nor primers. So there you are.
Many here probably experience gun controlling Californians coming to their town who flee the nightmarish communities they have created with their liberal politicians who have never even shot a firearm, let alone owned one. They have an un-American way of thinking and have no concept of a freedom-loving, armed citizenry and what it means to the foundation of our Nation. This is partly the new "Urban" culture that has grown to dominate many States. The other group of Californians leaving are the freedom-loving ones who are fed up with the tax-and-control culture and are able to. Sorry about the rant, but the tie-in between gun control and the deterioration of our society is obvious to me and our liberties are under assault as never before. We who choose to stay and fight need to let you know what we are up against. Your politicians like to use California as a model for them.

October 14, 2009, 02:24 PM	#26
javabum Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Californication Posts: 264	Everything i have seen or read says nothing about an ammo limit. __________________ Stupidity Should Hurt.....Immensely NRA Life member

October 15, 2009, 07:02 PM	#28
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	The City of Sacramento has had this law in force for awhile now and officers check the logs for known felons then get a search warrant on the strength of the purchase as felons can't have guns. To date about 50 felons are back in prison and I can't remember how many guns recoverd but it was in the hundreds. As for myself I will not pay retail for ammo So when I buy in bulk it will be drop shipped to my Bro in Laws in Reno. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 18, 2009, 07:54 AM	#31
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	BB's How are they going to handle BB's. There are handguns that fire them. Then there are the rubber band shooting pistols. Is Office Max going to ask what the package of rubber bands are going to be used for?

October 19, 2009, 04:23 PM	#32
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	Oh it's gonna hafta extend further then that. The paperclips that you shoot with those rubber bands are far more lethal then the rubber bands alone. Yes, when you stretch a rubber band between your thumb and index finger, hook a paperclip over it & pull back, you have "manufactured a handgun". If you have a buncha paperclips sticking up off of the cover page of the latest addition of Shooting Times for quick & easy access, you have in your possession a "magazine capable of holding more then ten rounds" that was manufactured after the ban. __________________ When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath. Last edited by fastforty; October 19, 2009 at 04:25 PM. Reason: oops

October 20, 2009, 11:05 AM	#38
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	The idea that folks should leave California is just silly. How about this: I left Oregon which had a shall-issue permit system to come to Texas for a significant improvement in my job. However, at the time - Texas didn't have such a system. If GWB had been beaten by Ann Richards - we might not have had a shall -issue system till who knows when. So, isn't it silly for TX folks to tell CA folks to move. OR folks could have said that I was making a mistake to come to an antigun state. Why not cut that out and be productive in the debate. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

October 15, 2009, 02:16 PM	#27
jg0001 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2007 Posts: 551	I have to say, I'm almost glad NJ's law (effective 2008 or 2009) requires only to show the FPID card every gun owner in NJ would have already anyway. Had NJ not had this law just passed, I imagine they would just as happily dupe CA's more stringent law. Sad.

October 18, 2009, 01:01 AM	#29
broadsidejohn Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Location: San Fernando Valley, California Posts: 3	By the way, can anyone out there tell me if I can buy ammo from a shop in Nevada or Arizona, or do they have laws forbidding California residents from purchase, as they do firearms?

October 19, 2009, 09:34 PM	#33
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Sounds like its time to start reloading for all you Californians. I still don't understand why you folks don't just move.

October 20, 2009, 04:48 PM	#40
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	csmsss, I've been reading this screed for sometime now. Fact is, you, and those who hold your view, are wrong. Running away, never solved the problems you are running away from. In the sense of 2A rights, running to a friendlier State, merely deprives the former State of proponents that may be able to help affect change. In the situation of California, those staying to fight, are effecting change. The changes are perhaps small. But they build upon each other. Changes in the 2A at the national level have allowed lawsuits, that would have never been considered at the State level. The lawmakers and the law interpreters will have a much tougher time in furthering their agenda, when some of the national laws come down. Almost 2 years ago, I wrote, of the then pending Heller case, "This is perhaps, the single greatest Constitutional case of our time. Both sides of this issue have a great deal to gain as well as lose. Sit back and enjoy the ride... It's about to get wild and hairy!" That line, the last paragraph of a larger article, was published in the May 2008 issue of S.W.A.T. magazine. What has happened since then, has not dampened my spirits in the least. If anything, it has vindicated my writings, as I also said, Washington D.C. will be dragged, kicking and screaming, into compliance with the rights of the people. That last applies to Illinois, New Jersey, New York (State and City), Maryland and certainly, California. We don't know the outcome of Nordyke. Sykes and Peǹa are on hold, awaiting the outcome of McDonald. Should these cases go our way, they will herald a new day in CA gun politics. A day that will eventually see an abrupt turnaround for those that have stayed and fought the fight. So yeah, encourage people to leave CA and watch this forward movement stop.

October 20, 2009, 05:56 PM	#41
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Movers If any of you Californians are going to move anyway, may I suggest a state like Idaho, Texas, or Arizona. Nevada is an ugly place. There is hardly a tree anywhere. Summers are very hot and winters are very cold. The population density is very low, there is hardly anything to do here for fun. Our deserts have scorpions, tarantulas and rattlesnakes. Our state bird should be the fly. Yes, the best option is for you is to not move. If you are bent on moving, skip Nevada. I am sure other states are willing to put out the welcome mat for you.

October 21, 2009, 12:59 PM	#45
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I know this has probably already been said, but... ...this law is not really about tracking ammo or the people who buy it. It is really about forcing retail stores to stop selling it due to the redtape and added costs. It is a backhanded way to reduce availability by making large chains just say "it just isn't worth the extra time and manpower." Just another reason why no one should ever buy guns or supplies from large retailers. If you do and the little guys go out of business you are screwed when the big guys decide to not cater to you anymore...and the big guys are easily swayed by politicians and special interests.

October 22, 2009, 01:09 AM	#46
Samuel2001 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2001 Posts: 838	Hell no! We wont go! Yup I'm in Cali and I aint going anywheres! That's why we have to register and vote, write letters, e-mails and make a slew of phone calls! Leaving is not an option for some of us. Eventually we'll beat these irrational laws. Running is'nt the answer. __________________ .45 ACP Because no matter how you try to rationalize it, 9mm is still for women and pansies. Build a bridge, and...GET OVER IT!

October 25, 2009, 04:05 PM	#47
broadsidejohn Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Location: San Fernando Valley, California Posts: 3	Politics of Guns and Ammo All the Nevadans discouraging freedom loving Californians from moving there are funny. What you get is liberals fleeing the hell holes that they create infesting your State instead(see Nevada and Montana). This happens all over, particularly on the East Coast, Where Virginia, West Virginia, etc have turned. Los Angeles City not only fingerprints ammo buyers but has a minimum length restriction on firearms, i.e. no short revolvers or semi-autos. Any kind of ammo is hard to find (except some hunting type rifle ammo), especially .38, .357, .40 and .45. Shotgun is still available. Gun owners are buying whatever they can find because of the plitical regime. If the Rulers here can regulate ammo, that is ersatz gun control from their standpoint. The Gun Controllers always have a conga line of laws ready to push, using the last law as a lever to enact the next one.

October 25, 2009, 05:20 PM	#48
ConradJoyce Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Posts: 8	We Californians have apparently and gratefully begun to succumb to the notion that the guvment is responsible for the total security of us citizens, pesky remainders of our civil rights notwithstanding, that it is important that we all be kept safe and sound and fat and happy like weiners and steers and whatever that takes, well, that's ok, even if it requires that our rights accompany our dignity right down into the outhouse ditch. Gee, where did I hear that idea before? Wasn't that the crock that the previous federal administration poured all over us after a few crackpot fundamentalist muslims caught our keepers nappin' ? What we have here is a genuine spiritual impoverishment, weakness glorified and celebrated in our body of law. I ain't movin' out of California. You're welcome. Conrad

October 25, 2009, 09:21 PM	#49
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	The Real Reason I live in a small town. Our main industry is agriculture. It is dusy and dirty here. We have several dairy farms as well, summers bring powerful odors around if you are down wind. We often have large, slow moving farm machines going down our roads. We get air shows all the time, crop dusters are very common here. I love this environment. I escaped the city for this. Now we have quite a few recent transplants from California here. Some of them, not all of them, want to pass laws regulating the dust and smells we have here. They want to curtail if not stop the crop dusters. They bitch and moan at city hall and supervisors' meeting about the conditions here. I have one question for these Golden Staters, why the heck did you move here? At least the feces smell around here is from cows.

October 26, 2009, 12:53 AM	#50
broadsidejohn Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Location: San Fernando Valley, California Posts: 3	Some of you might rightly ask why don't we just reload if ammo is so hard to find? I have never had the patience and desire to reload. I would rather buy from an American company that has professionals who provide high quality product. Five days ago I visited my favorite gun store (outside the City of LA limits) and the owner was explaining to a customer (a long time reloader) that he could get neither powder nor primers. So there you are. Many here probably experience gun controlling Californians coming to their town who flee the nightmarish communities they have created with their liberal politicians who have never even shot a firearm, let alone owned one. They have an un-American way of thinking and have no concept of a freedom-loving, armed citizenry and what it means to the foundation of our Nation. This is partly the new "Urban" culture that has grown to dominate many States. The other group of Californians leaving are the freedom-loving ones who are fed up with the tax-and-control culture and are able to. Sorry about the rant, but the tie-in between gun control and the deterioration of our society is obvious to me and our liberties are under assault as never before. We who choose to stay and fight need to let you know what we are up against. Your politicians like to use California as a model for them.