Noobie pressure ring question - .223

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 04:46 PM

I just went yesterday to test my first batch of reloads (.223 and .45ACP). My .223 loads were once fired Sellier & Bellot brass (I know it was once fired because I was the one who fired it first, this is the first reload on them), CCI 400 primers, Varget (4 batches of 24.5gr, 25gr, 25.5gr, and 26gr), and 55gr FMJBT bullets from hi-techammo.com. My overall length to the tip was slightly shorter than what the books say I should have, but I was seating to the cannelure. The brass was within specs before reloading. The rifle was an almost brand new S&W MP15, 16" barrel, 1/9" twist. My groups were loose with the 24.5, 25, and 25.5 loads, and tightened up a bit with the 26gr. All ammo functioned perfectly. I thought about going a little over 26 to see if accuracy got even better, but when I got home and cleaned my brass up I noticed some pressure rings on some of it. Out of 80 rounds fired (20 were the hottest load, 26gr), I have 4 that have a bit of a pressure ring around them. They don't bulge out as much as the picture makes it look like, but I can definitely feel where the ring is with my fingernail. I keep reading that people say you can't get enough Varget in a case, and are using compressed loads all the time, so I'm stumped that just 26gr could cause over-pressure. The only thing I could think of was that I seated my bullet with most of the cannelure hidden, and could back it off a tiny bit for more case volume. Then I looked at my brass that hasn't been reloaded yet. I found a couple of my S&B once fired brass that had some pressure rings also (just not as bad). I didn't notice the rings on the ones I reloaded before loading them, but I could have missed them.

So the question is, is there some amount of pressure ring that is acceptable? And should I chuck these? The one on the left is the one that was reloaded and fired again, the one on the left is once fired with the factory load and that's it. The one that was reloaded and fired again has a slightly more defined line to the pressure ring. Both have been resized already. The 26gr loads also stretched the cases out beyond the max trim length, while the other loads didn't.

armedtotheteeth · December 13, 2008, 04:54 PM

Id be willing to bet your boollet was too long. Youd be amazed at the problems it will cause. Id shunk them. If you got pressure problems, You whould be able to tell from the primers. If there is a Crater around the dent, youve got problems. If a new primer is really easy to remove, or falls out. you have got problems. If they are too easy to put in.. you got,,, Problems Those pieces if brass aint worth your gun, or your face. I always smash brass like that with pliars and chunk them in the junk brass bucket.

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 05:06 PM

Ok, but what about the one on the right? It was never reloaded. It was fired from a factory fresh box of S&B, sized, and reprimed. Just now noticed the pressure ring on it. Only the one on the left has been reloaded. Is it common to get signs of overpressure on factory loaded ammo?

C Bass · December 13, 2008, 05:22 PM

I'm very new to reloading too and just fired my first batch of reloaded .223 as well.
Is that ring really a pressure ring or is it just the line where your sizing die stops? Both cases in the pic have been resized correct? Do you have one to compare it to that wasn't resized?

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 05:28 PM

I've resized all of them and only a handful have that line. It never occurred to me that it could be the line where the sizing die stopped, never heard that before. It just seemed to be in about the right spot for a pressure ring. A lot of my brass has some sort of minor scuff around that area, but not such a defined ring.

DaveInPA · December 13, 2008, 05:38 PM

Try some better brass, like Winchester or Lake City. I've had problems with S&B brass in .45 ACP, so I bet their .223 brass isn't much better.

27.0gr of Varget is a max load, so it's hard to believe you'd be getting over pressure with 26.0

Also, if you're going for accuracy, there are much better bullets than bulk FMJ pills out there.

C Bass · December 13, 2008, 05:41 PM

I have a faint line on my most of my .40 & .45 brass in about the same spot from the sizing die. It's not as pronounced as yours in the picture but it's still there.
Like I said - I'm no expert and I'm sure someone here in the know will chime in but that's my best guess. I went out to my reloading bench to check my .223 but I don't have any resized that I can compare it to.

Loader9 · December 13, 2008, 06:06 PM

That is not a pressure ring. It is where the sizing die stopped sizing the brass when it bottomed out. The die does not size all the way to the rim. There is nothing wrong with yer brass. Now a bright ring that is REAL shiny and about 1/8" high on the brass is indication of head separation.

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Try some better brass, like Winchester or Lake City. I've had problems with S&B brass in .45 ACP, so I bet their .223 brass isn't much better.

27.0gr of Varget is a max load, so it's hard to believe you'd be getting over pressure with 26.0

Also, if you're going for accuracy, there are much better bullets than bulk FMJ pills out there.

I have 1000 Lake City cases I'm processing now, but they won't be ready to load for a while. I have some Sierra 52gr Matchkings, but I'm saving them for when I know what I'm doing. The bulk FMJ's are for practice and loading up my ammo cans.

My main concern/question is if the pressure ring deal makes the brass garbage when it first shows up, or if it's acceptable up to a certain point.

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

That is not a pressure ring. It is where the sizing die stopped sizing the brass when it bottomed out. The die does not size all the way to the rim. There is nothing wrong with yer brass. Now a bright ring that is REAL shiny and about 1/8" high on the brass is indication of head separation.

Good news, thanks. I thought it looked different than some of the pictures and descriptions I've seen. I've heard it described as a bright ring, where this looks like more of a ridge and the brass doesn't change color.

dahermit · December 13, 2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

That is not a pressure ring. It is where the sizing die stopped sizing the brass when it bottomed out. The die does not size all the way to the rim. There is nothing wrong with yer brass. Now a bright ring that is REAL shiny and about 1/8" high on the brass is indication of head separation

The visible ridge is not from the sizing die. It is the normal ridge where the case expands when it is fired and is always seen on fired cases includeding factory rounds. The web of the case does not expand as much as the case just in front of the web. The web area (just behind the ridge) is often measured to help indicate if the pressure is too high.

What was the appearance of the primer? Excessively flattened, or cratered primers along with sticky extraction are indicators of excess pressure...the visible ridge is not.

mniesen89 · December 13, 2008, 06:38 PM

+1 for reloader9, that really looks like where the die stops,I've had an over pressure ring just like that with my .223 loads just much more pronounced.

Good question for the new reloaders and vets to look at though.

GringoLoco · December 13, 2008, 07:01 PM

I guess I should have mentioned how the primers looked. Overall they looked good. A few of the hotter loads were noticeably flatter than the more mild loads, but nothing like the pictures I've seen of primers flattening to the point where there wasn't even a ridge between the primer and the case head. The firing pin indent looked perfectly normal too.

armedtotheteeth · December 13, 2008, 08:36 PM

I learned the hard way about reloading. I was doing some early loads for my 300 Winny. The seating die set screw did not lock and the die backed out ever so slightly. The last few of the batch had the Bullet touching the lands. These where near max loads for IMR 4350, 72 Grains. Anyways the primers where blown out and where now where to be found. I had to beat the bolt open with a mallet. I was concerened about the gun for awhile. It is an Armalite Ar-30, and it is a TANK!. No problems 600 rounds later. Whew!! Now I use locktite in the locknut, and check COL.

Loader9 · December 13, 2008, 11:17 PM

Here's a link for you to review. At the top of the page it shows a new piece of brass, a resized piece of brass, a piece of brass that has a bright ring indicating head separation, and a blown case. Yours is just a resized case.
http://stevespages.com/diagnosingproblems.html

amamnn · December 14, 2008, 03:42 PM

A couple of nteresting facts about "pressure rings" ------

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...hp/t-4346.html

I don't think of the head/web/body junction as a "pressure ring" but apparently some folks do.

and:

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...t-diameters-2/

which is what I think of when someone says "pressure ring"

December 13, 2008, 04:46 PM	#1
GringoLoco Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 60	Noobie pressure ring question - .223 I just went yesterday to test my first batch of reloads (.223 and .45ACP). My .223 loads were once fired Sellier & Bellot brass (I know it was once fired because I was the one who fired it first, this is the first reload on them), CCI 400 primers, Varget (4 batches of 24.5gr, 25gr, 25.5gr, and 26gr), and 55gr FMJBT bullets from hi-techammo.com. My overall length to the tip was slightly shorter than what the books say I should have, but I was seating to the cannelure. The brass was within specs before reloading. The rifle was an almost brand new S&W MP15, 16" barrel, 1/9" twist. My groups were loose with the 24.5, 25, and 25.5 loads, and tightened up a bit with the 26gr. All ammo functioned perfectly. I thought about going a little over 26 to see if accuracy got even better, but when I got home and cleaned my brass up I noticed some pressure rings on some of it. Out of 80 rounds fired (20 were the hottest load, 26gr), I have 4 that have a bit of a pressure ring around them. They don't bulge out as much as the picture makes it look like, but I can definitely feel where the ring is with my fingernail. I keep reading that people say you can't get enough Varget in a case, and are using compressed loads all the time, so I'm stumped that just 26gr could cause over-pressure. The only thing I could think of was that I seated my bullet with most of the cannelure hidden, and could back it off a tiny bit for more case volume. Then I looked at my brass that hasn't been reloaded yet. I found a couple of my S&B once fired brass that had some pressure rings also (just not as bad). I didn't notice the rings on the ones I reloaded before loading them, but I could have missed them. So the question is, is there some amount of pressure ring that is acceptable? And should I chuck these? The one on the left is the one that was reloaded and fired again, the one on the left is once fired with the factory load and that's it. The one that was reloaded and fired again has a slightly more defined line to the pressure ring. Both have been resized already. The 26gr loads also stretched the cases out beyond the max trim length, while the other loads didn't.

December 14, 2008, 03:42 PM	#16
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	A couple of nteresting facts about "pressure rings" ------ http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...hp/t-4346.html I don't think of the head/web/body junction as a "pressure ring" but apparently some folks do. and: http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...t-diameters-2/ which is what I think of when someone says "pressure ring" __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

December 13, 2008, 04:54 PM	#2
armedtotheteeth Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2005 Location: podunk, Texas Posts: 1,610	Id be willing to bet your boollet was too long. Youd be amazed at the problems it will cause. Id shunk them. If you got pressure problems, You whould be able to tell from the primers. If there is a Crater around the dent, youve got problems. If a new primer is really easy to remove, or falls out. you have got problems. If they are too easy to put in.. you got,,, Problems Those pieces if brass aint worth your gun, or your face. I always smash brass like that with pliars and chunk them in the junk brass bucket.

December 13, 2008, 05:06 PM	#3
GringoLoco Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 60	Ok, but what about the one on the right? It was never reloaded. It was fired from a factory fresh box of S&B, sized, and reprimed. Just now noticed the pressure ring on it. Only the one on the left has been reloaded. Is it common to get signs of overpressure on factory loaded ammo?

December 13, 2008, 05:22 PM	#4
C Bass Member Join Date: December 2, 2008 Posts: 24	I'm very new to reloading too and just fired my first batch of reloaded .223 as well. Is that ring really a pressure ring or is it just the line where your sizing die stops? Both cases in the pic have been resized correct? Do you have one to compare it to that wasn't resized?

December 13, 2008, 05:28 PM	#5
GringoLoco Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 60	I've resized all of them and only a handful have that line. It never occurred to me that it could be the line where the sizing die stopped, never heard that before. It just seemed to be in about the right spot for a pressure ring. A lot of my brass has some sort of minor scuff around that area, but not such a defined ring.

December 13, 2008, 05:38 PM	#6
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Try some better brass, like Winchester or Lake City. I've had problems with S&B brass in .45 ACP, so I bet their .223 brass isn't much better. 27.0gr of Varget is a max load, so it's hard to believe you'd be getting over pressure with 26.0 Also, if you're going for accuracy, there are much better bullets than bulk FMJ pills out there.

December 13, 2008, 05:41 PM	#7
C Bass Member Join Date: December 2, 2008 Posts: 24	I have a faint line on my most of my .40 & .45 brass in about the same spot from the sizing die. It's not as pronounced as yours in the picture but it's still there. Like I said - I'm no expert and I'm sure someone here in the know will chime in but that's my best guess. I went out to my reloading bench to check my .223 but I don't have any resized that I can compare it to.

December 13, 2008, 06:06 PM	#8
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	That is not a pressure ring. It is where the sizing die stopped sizing the brass when it bottomed out. The die does not size all the way to the rim. There is nothing wrong with yer brass. Now a bright ring that is REAL shiny and about 1/8" high on the brass is indication of head separation.

December 13, 2008, 06:38 PM	#12
mniesen89 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: deland,fl Posts: 238	+1 for reloader9, that really looks like where the die stops,I've had an over pressure ring just like that with my .223 loads just much more pronounced. Good question for the new reloaders and vets to look at though.

December 13, 2008, 07:01 PM	#13
GringoLoco Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 60	I guess I should have mentioned how the primers looked. Overall they looked good. A few of the hotter loads were noticeably flatter than the more mild loads, but nothing like the pictures I've seen of primers flattening to the point where there wasn't even a ridge between the primer and the case head. The firing pin indent looked perfectly normal too.

December 13, 2008, 08:36 PM	#14
armedtotheteeth Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2005 Location: podunk, Texas Posts: 1,610	I learned the hard way about reloading. I was doing some early loads for my 300 Winny. The seating die set screw did not lock and the die backed out ever so slightly. The last few of the batch had the Bullet touching the lands. These where near max loads for IMR 4350, 72 Grains. Anyways the primers where blown out and where now where to be found. I had to beat the bolt open with a mallet. I was concerened about the gun for awhile. It is an Armalite Ar-30, and it is a TANK!. No problems 600 rounds later. Whew!! Now I use locktite in the locknut, and check COL.

December 13, 2008, 11:17 PM	#15
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	Here's a link for you to review. At the top of the page it shows a new piece of brass, a resized piece of brass, a piece of brass that has a bright ring indicating head separation, and a blown case. Yours is just a resized case. http://stevespages.com/diagnosingproblems.html