.40 S&W Carbine?

bqglock · January 24, 2012, 06:41 PM

Anyone chrono'd a .40 sw out of a 16.5 in barrel? I'm curious on velocity increase. I'm thinking about buying a .40 carbine and am wondering what velocity increase (if any) I might experience.

Sparks1957 · January 24, 2012, 07:01 PM

I've heard estimates of 10-15% increase in muzzle velocity, based on 9mm carbines.

Shouldn't be too far different with a .40, I would think.

Crazy88Fingers · January 24, 2012, 10:36 PM

There doesn't seem to be a huge difference.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/40sw.html

bqglock · January 24, 2012, 10:45 PM

Wow "Crazy88Fingers" thanks for the site it will help alot, lots of neat information.

ace4059 · January 25, 2012, 08:10 AM

A .40 in a carbine brings the power and velocity up to a 10mm. Do a little research on the 10mm, and why the FBI no longer uses it. Basically its good on larger animals but bad for anti personnel

Brian Pfleuger · January 25, 2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace4059

A .40 in a carbine brings the power and velocity up to a 10mm. Do a little research on the 10mm, and why the FBI no longer uses it. Basically its good on larger animals but bad for anti personnel

The reason the FBI went away from the 10mm has nothing to due with it being "bad for antipersonnel".
They quit using it because their agents couldn't control the power. SW reduced the loads and then realized they could use shorter cases with the reduced loads... Hence the 40SW was born.
The 10mm is a fantastic round if you know how to control the gun.
Most modern 10mm is loaded to the reduced power levels of 40SW so unless you load your own or buy expensive premium ammo there's not much difference.

SwampYankee · January 25, 2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

They quit using it because their agents couldn't control the power.

+1, that has always been what I have read.

Jim Downey · January 25, 2012, 09:06 AM

Yeah, Peet's got it right.

Oh, and bqglock - you're welcome.

Jim

ace4059 · January 25, 2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

The reason the FBI went away from the 10mm has nothing to due with it being "bad for antipersonnel".
They quit using it because their agents couldn't control the power. SW reduced the loads and then realized they could use shorter cases with the reduced loads... Hence the 40SW was born.

Yes that is true, but it is only part of the reason.

Read the paragraph below this line from from here; It refers to the .40 cal in the Kel Tec sub 2000.

So why not the .40? Well, when you put the .40 S&W in a Rifle form, it has the power of a 10mm. Now the 10mm is a powerful round. The FBI liked this, when it was invented in 1984. In fact it was too powerful, and had to be scaled down (hints the FBI lite loads). Some may remember the problems the FBI was having in the late 80's /early 90's, so they switched to the .40 S&W. The 10mm was a good round when loaded to 950 fps. They basically had to scale it down because it was over penetrating (plus too big of guns, and too powerful for smaller agents to handle), and the bullet was not delivering the kinetic energy to the target. The bullet would just pass through. So when they developed the .40 cal, it was a slower fps and it delivered the energy to it's target. The .40 is basically a 10mm lite. So to the point, when you use a .40 S&W in a Rifle, it will be too powerful and go right through, not stopping the target as quickly.

Brian Pfleuger · January 25, 2012, 04:44 PM

Well, I'm not about to rehash all the arguments about over-penetration and "stopping power" all over again. Suffice it to say that I do not subscribe to your theories.

checkmyswag · January 25, 2012, 10:27 PM

OP which 40 carbine you thinking of getting?

bqglock · January 25, 2012, 10:31 PM

^ I haven't decided yet I wanted to see if getting one would be worth it. I have a glock 32 with a lone wolf .40 barrel and wanted a long gun. just thought i would get one with ammo i already have other than .22 and no long guns are made in .357 sig

Brian Pfleuger · January 25, 2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bqglock

.... and no long guns are made in .357 sig

Well, sort of....

http://www.mechtechsys.com/faqs.php#c0

bqglock · January 25, 2012, 10:48 PM

Anyway i want to keep my carry gun the way it is

Steve_in_SEMich · January 27, 2012, 10:51 AM

bq - I have a Beretta CX4 in .40S&W. Through the chronograph, the carbine w/ 16.6" barrel was approx. 250fps faster than the PX4 w/ a 4" barrel. This increase was almost the same in 2 different bullet weights.

tulsamal · January 27, 2012, 12:20 PM

I have an AR-15 in .357 SIG. Ron Williams made the DI upper for me. LW lower that uses Glock 31 mags. 9" barrel.

re: the 10mm. I'm sure they were having over penetration issues with the original full power ammo. The Norma loads were 200 grains. But it's important to remember that handgun ammunition has experienced a titanic shift in the last 10-15 years. These are the Golden Years. When you look at Gold Dots, and Critical Defence, and PDX1 Bonded, and Golden Sabers, and CorBon DPX, etc, etc, etc... I'm quite sure they could develop a full velocity 10mm load that would give just exactly the right amount of penetration. But they would still have to face the larger grip. It could probably be done if .40 S&W wasn't working just fine. Look at how SA was able to somehow make a .45 ACP version of the XD that feels like a .40 in your hand. If the FBI wanted to buy such a thing, I'm sure they could do the same thing with 10mm.

Gregg

batmann · January 27, 2012, 04:55 PM

Funny you should ask----I just bought an ATI JR (Just Right) Carbine in .40 cal. I have only shot it for function and don't have a chrony, but it does seem to pack (seat of the pants) a little more punch. For the record, it is a very nice carbine and uses Glock mags, I have a Glock 22, so all the mags I have will fit. Saves on ammo and mags. It has a picatinny rail system as well as a flat top configeration so a lot of AR stuff fits as well.

bqglock · January 27, 2012, 07:08 PM

^ How much did it cost? i just saw some vids on youtube and i like it alot! being i have 3 glock mags already

Dave R · January 28, 2012, 12:22 AM

The way I read the chart in "Ballistic by the Inch", it looks like the lighter bullets get more boost from the barrel length. 180gr. don't speed up too much. 135gr. speed up quite a bit.

Crosshair · January 28, 2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

The way I read the chart in "Ballistic by the Inch", it looks like the lighter bullets get more boost from the barrel length. 180gr. don't speed up too much. 135gr. speed up quite a bit.

That is true. I've done lots of tinkering with such loads for my carbines. With a blowback action you gets lots of increase with the light bullets only. The heavier ones don't get much of an increase, though you do get less noise and flash.

wnycollector · January 29, 2012, 07:44 AM

Here is some chrono data I got a few years ago with my KelTec Sub2k and CZ-40B. The KT has a 16" barrel and the CZ has a 4.3" barrel.

Doubletap 155gr Gold Dot = 1247fps from the CZ and 1564fps from the Keltec
Doubletap 180gr Gold Dot = 1124fps from the CZ and 1400fps from the Keltac
Magtech 155gr JHP = 1136fps from the CZ and 1401fps from the Keltec
Masttercast 180gr Cast FP = 939fps in the CZ and 1137fps in the Keltec

Noreaster · January 29, 2012, 08:57 AM

The FBI got rid of their 5.56 mm carbines (M4) and went to a .40S&W carbine (M4). Believe it or not the 40S&W does better then a .223/5.56 for barrier penetration at typical engagement ranges, (note that the average police sniper shot is 70 yards.)

January 24, 2012, 06:41 PM	#1
bqglock Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Location: Apache junction, AZ Posts: 50	.40 S&W Carbine? Anyone chrono'd a .40 sw out of a 16.5 in barrel? I'm curious on velocity increase. I'm thinking about buying a .40 carbine and am wondering what velocity increase (if any) I might experience.

January 24, 2012, 10:36 PM	#3
Crazy88Fingers Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: WesTex Posts: 958	There doesn't seem to be a huge difference. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/40sw.html __________________ "And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44" -Lynyrd Skynyrd

January 25, 2012, 09:06 AM	#8
Jim Downey Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Posts: 206	Yeah, Peet's got it right. Oh, and bqglock - you're welcome. Jim __________________ James Downey http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/ - BBTI handgun cartridge research http://www.guns.com/author/jim-downey/ - Guns.com where I'm a features/review writer http://www.communionofdreams.com/ Communion of Dreams - my current novel.

January 25, 2012, 04:44 PM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, I'm not about to rehash all the arguments about over-penetration and "stopping power" all over again. Suffice it to say that I do not subscribe to your theories. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 27, 2012, 10:51 AM	#15
Steve_in_SEMich Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Posts: 88	bq - I have a Beretta CX4 in .40S&W. Through the chronograph, the carbine w/ 16.6" barrel was approx. 250fps faster than the PX4 w/ a 4" barrel. This increase was almost the same in 2 different bullet weights. __________________ Steve

January 24, 2012, 07:01 PM	#2
Sparks1957 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,552	I've heard estimates of 10-15% increase in muzzle velocity, based on 9mm carbines. Shouldn't be too far different with a .40, I would think.

January 24, 2012, 10:45 PM	#4
bqglock Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Location: Apache junction, AZ Posts: 50	Wow "Crazy88Fingers" thanks for the site it will help alot, lots of neat information.

January 25, 2012, 08:10 AM	#5
ace4059 Member Join Date: October 5, 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Tx Posts: 94	A .40 in a carbine brings the power and velocity up to a 10mm. Do a little research on the 10mm, and why the FBI no longer uses it. Basically its good on larger animals but bad for anti personnel

January 25, 2012, 10:27 PM	#11
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	OP which 40 carbine you thinking of getting?

January 25, 2012, 10:31 PM	#12
bqglock Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Location: Apache junction, AZ Posts: 50	^ I haven't decided yet I wanted to see if getting one would be worth it. I have a glock 32 with a lone wolf .40 barrel and wanted a long gun. just thought i would get one with ammo i already have other than .22 and no long guns are made in .357 sig

January 25, 2012, 10:48 PM	#14
bqglock Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Location: Apache junction, AZ Posts: 50	Anyway i want to keep my carry gun the way it is

January 27, 2012, 12:20 PM	#16
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	I have an AR-15 in .357 SIG. Ron Williams made the DI upper for me. LW lower that uses Glock 31 mags. 9" barrel. re: the 10mm. I'm sure they were having over penetration issues with the original full power ammo. The Norma loads were 200 grains. But it's important to remember that handgun ammunition has experienced a titanic shift in the last 10-15 years. These are the Golden Years. When you look at Gold Dots, and Critical Defence, and PDX1 Bonded, and Golden Sabers, and CorBon DPX, etc, etc, etc... I'm quite sure they could develop a full velocity 10mm load that would give just exactly the right amount of penetration. But they would still have to face the larger grip. It could probably be done if .40 S&W wasn't working just fine. Look at how SA was able to somehow make a .45 ACP version of the XD that feels like a .40 in your hand. If the FBI wanted to buy such a thing, I'm sure they could do the same thing with 10mm. Gregg

January 27, 2012, 04:55 PM	#17
batmann Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2004 Location: Greenwood, IN Posts: 773	Funny you should ask----I just bought an ATI JR (Just Right) Carbine in .40 cal. I have only shot it for function and don't have a chrony, but it does seem to pack (seat of the pants) a little more punch. For the record, it is a very nice carbine and uses Glock mags, I have a Glock 22, so all the mags I have will fit. Saves on ammo and mags. It has a picatinny rail system as well as a flat top configeration so a lot of AR stuff fits as well.

January 27, 2012, 07:08 PM	#18
bqglock Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Location: Apache junction, AZ Posts: 50	^ How much did it cost? i just saw some vids on youtube and i like it alot! being i have 3 glock mags already

January 28, 2012, 12:22 AM	#19
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	The way I read the chart in "Ballistic by the Inch", it looks like the lighter bullets get more boost from the barrel length. 180gr. don't speed up too much. 135gr. speed up quite a bit. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 29, 2012, 07:44 AM	#21
wnycollector Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2007 Posts: 1,996	Here is some chrono data I got a few years ago with my KelTec Sub2k and CZ-40B. The KT has a 16" barrel and the CZ has a 4.3" barrel. Doubletap 155gr Gold Dot = 1247fps from the CZ and 1564fps from the Keltec Doubletap 180gr Gold Dot = 1124fps from the CZ and 1400fps from the Keltac Magtech 155gr JHP = 1136fps from the CZ and 1401fps from the Keltec Masttercast 180gr Cast FP = 939fps in the CZ and 1137fps in the Keltec

January 29, 2012, 08:57 AM	#22
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 1,449	The FBI got rid of their 5.56 mm carbines (M4) and went to a .40S&W carbine (M4). Believe it or not the 40S&W does better then a .223/5.56 for barrier penetration at typical engagement ranges, (note that the average police sniper shot is 70 yards.)