June 5, 2011, 09:34 PM | #1 |
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Gun Modifications
I want to buy a gun, but apparently it's too small to be on the California safe handgun roster. However, it has recently come to my attention that the barrel on a handgun can be extended or the handgun can be made single shot in order to be exempted from the roster, and that it's perfectly legal to do so. Does anyone know of any good gun shops or gun smiths in the LA area that do this?
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June 5, 2011, 09:54 PM | #2 |
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Got a citation on the law that says that? I'm not in California, but a friend of mine is an attorney and NRA-certified instructor in CA, and I have never heard of any way to get around the fact of a gun's NOT being listed on the CA DOJ list of approved handguns.
You do understand, I hope, that California's listing is of specific models, not just makes. If the list includes a Rock Island 1911 with a 5" barrel and stainless steel finish, the exact same pistol with a blued finish is NOT legal unless it appears as a separate item on the list. For that reason, I don't see any way you can take a gun that's off-list, modify it, and have it magically become legal. California does not allow you to manufacture your own handguns. You cannot buy a bare frame in California and build your own pistol on it. You can buy ONLY completed handguns, and if new they MUST be on the DOJ list. |
June 5, 2011, 10:58 PM | #3 |
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I am not sure why you would want to pursue this route. Just out of curiosity is this list so limited that you cannot purchase something that is already approved? Maybe if you provide some specifics someone could offer a little beneficial advice.
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June 6, 2011, 04:25 PM | #4 |
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The list is pretty limited, but It's because I want to purchase the gun as a collector's item, not to shoot it. The gun is a North American Arms .22 Short. The .22 LR & Mag are on the roster, but from a collector's perspective, it is in the .22 Short that we are interested in.
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June 6, 2011, 04:56 PM | #5 |
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As a collector's item - modifying a gun usually weakens its value. Also, there are lots of these around - why are they collectible besides personal interest?
I suppose it might be possible to get one of the longer NAA barrels - why not ask on the www.naaminis.com board. I would check with a legal authority. The gun is cute as is!
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June 6, 2011, 06:51 PM | #6 |
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ht=single+shot
Mods, hope this is ok. A link to a Calguns thread explaining why, how and where...
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June 6, 2011, 08:32 PM | #7 |
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Thanks Wuluf! This is exactly what I was looking for!
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June 6, 2011, 10:50 PM | #8 |
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Does your plan satisfy all that? And where in that law does it say anything about being legal to UNconvert it once you have it? |
June 7, 2011, 08:23 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
You are asking the wrong question. Where in the law does it say you can't? That which isn't prohibited by law is permitted. |
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June 7, 2011, 04:15 PM | #10 |
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Oooookaaaay ...
We start with a law that says thou shalt NOT purchase any new firearm that is not on the DOJ list. We than have an exception to that BLANKET prohibition, saying that the foregoing does not apply under certain very strict conditions -- such as converting to a single shot firearm. So you have it converted and you buy it. Your story is that it is then legal to convert it back to the configuration that you were not allowed to buy from the factory? Good luck selling that to a court. |
June 7, 2011, 07:19 PM | #11 | ||||
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Let's just go through the relevant portions of the California Penal Code:
Section 12125 (a) creates the prohibition on importing and selling "unsafe handguns": Quote:
Quote:
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My opinion is that yes you could convert it back. The law doesn't prohibit posession of handguns not on the roster. I would not define a person changing a single shot pistol to a semi auto as "manufacturing" unless done on a large scale or for commercial purposes. |
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June 7, 2011, 08:16 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
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June 11, 2011, 08:03 PM | #13 |
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Does anybody know of any new places that offer 07 FFl services in SoCal?
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June 12, 2011, 12:47 AM | #14 |
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Actually, the best way to import an NAA mini that's off-roster would be to somehow make it more than 7.5" long as measured parallel to the barrel.
As long as a single action revolver is that length or more, and has five shots or more, it is roster-excempt. Sooo...hrm...yeah, that's absolutely doable . Let's see...we could bolt a Bowie-knife bayonette to it or extend the grips in some insane wrist-rocket-like fashion. For the record: the SA revolver exception was meant to allow SASS players to buy Colt SAAs, USFAs, Ubertis and other "true clones" of the SAA that lack a drop-safe feature. The 7.5" overall length thing was all about making sure minirevolvers by Freedom Arms and NAA did NOT fit into this exception...but with some custom grips or some kind of weird barrel attachment (bolt a cheap riflescope on it anyone?) it should be easy to make the 7.5" cutoff. That's where I'd go with it. With DA revolvers that either meet or are close to the 7.5" limit, the solution is an SA conversion - put in a hammer that's had the DA sear notch shaved off.
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June 14, 2011, 02:18 AM | #15 |
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Thanks Jim. That could do the trick. Would you recommend me any gunshops for this?
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June 14, 2011, 03:00 AM | #16 |
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Personally, I'd buy a set of grips off the NAA website and modify them myself. Drill a couple of holes front to rear each side, put some steel or brass rods in, rig a leather "wrist rocket" strap between the two rods. The rods would need to be...hmm...for the 22Short version, call it 6" to be safe. Send the modified grips to the out-of-state seller, have him bolt them on, ship you the gun. Done.
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June 14, 2011, 05:34 AM | #17 |
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This sounds like far to much trouble for a firearm and one good way to loose your 2nd amendment rights. Personally I would not live in CA, CT,MA, IL, NY, or any other restrictive state with such high crime rates.
Just my opinion no disrespect intended. Mace |
June 17, 2011, 03:10 AM | #18 |
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Thanks Jim! I'll give that a try and see if an out-of-state seller wants to bolt them to the gun. Thanks again!
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June 19, 2011, 02:37 AM | #19 |
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I contacted some out-of-state shops and they either don't ship to CA at all, or they don't modify for CA. Does anybody know of any particular shops that might want to modify and ship to CA?
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June 19, 2011, 08:17 AM | #20 |
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You need to find an FFL07 to have the gun shipped to in California and have them do the modifications to make it legal and then they can transfer it to you.
But my understanding is it has to be a licensed manufacturer who does he modification not just any old gun shop. |
June 19, 2011, 11:26 AM | #21 |
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Not on a grip panel swap!
Look, there's federal standards for what constitutes "making a new gun" when you modify an existing one. Swapping calibers generally does it! Swapping grip panels? No. Not even if the new grips are 6" long.
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June 19, 2011, 08:59 PM | #22 |
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Any recommendations in the LA area or in California?
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June 19, 2011, 09:25 PM | #23 |
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NAA MIGHT make you a .22 short gun with a longer barrel. They offered them at one time. Contact them.
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June 19, 2011, 11:02 PM | #24 |
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I want the modifications to be reversible though, because the reason why I like the NAA .22 Short is because of its miniature size.
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June 29, 2011, 08:15 PM | #25 |
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I was doing further research on this subject, and I came across an article that read that incomplete handguns were exempt from the roster. So could shipping the mini revolver in parts work?
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buying , california , gun shops , guns , modifications |
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