Big Game Rifle/Load

JGC · January 15, 2012, 08:28 PM

Hi and thanks for taking the time,
i am currently putting together a SPS 300 win mag in AICS Chassis for a solid all around minimum rifle setup topped with my SS10x scope/Extreme rings, cantilever, kestrel. My purpose is to reach 600 yards effectively for hunting purposes but will opt to stay inside of 400 for obvious reasons..weather..variables..etc.
Purpose: Hunting 300lb+Pigs(boar/hog/russian boar) *Trophy's
Eventually Elk up north and maybe the occassional Bear if legal and iam not looking to make it a habit but want enough gun.
I have a box of winchester supreme 180gr cxp3 which i plan on trying out but i want to reload,
chose the 300wm because i wanted enough penetration and power especially on these big pigs that like to charge (only going for the big ones i have an ar for the small ones).
Going to collect data based on loads and the Berger 230's seem promissing with a bc 711, however i know there is a difference in bullets when hunting animals who arent so fragile..
i want something that will penetrate that big boar/bear shoulder and deliver that punch but hold up as well and expand appropriately,
been looking into hornadys Amax's 178's,208's, and bergers 210-230gr,
Please feel free to share and educated with your knowledge iam all ears!
And if you dont mind posting pics of your big game/dangerous game rifle/setup as bonus. iam a picture guy

I would really appreciate it and thanks for your help.

kraigwy · January 15, 2012, 08:56 PM

Man you must have some tuff pigs.

Lots of people shoot them with 223s and pistols. Pretty much any rifle would work.

Sounds like you'll have more money in ammo then the pig's worth.

Pigs are normally in farming areas. I'd hate to think what would happen to one of those supper dupper 300s after they passed through the hog.

warbirdlover · January 15, 2012, 10:49 PM

Here ya go. 3400 fps muzzle velocity.

http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Win...Superformance/

JGC · January 16, 2012, 01:30 PM

Kraig,
i thought the same thing being i have an AR Free Floated and scoped, iam getting very satisfying groups and with a 16inch barrel i thought it would be just the ticked with some 62 or 75gr loads but many are saying go bigger...never hunted a 300+hog before...

JGC · January 16, 2012, 01:34 PM

warbird il def try them out nice trajectories.
would a .308 remy do??? somewhere along the lines of 175gr or 168gr?
i saw a guy shoot a pig at 75 yards weighing around 75lbs and the bullet didnt exit!!!

not sure if the .308 will do the trick lacking speed=penetration, or iam i wrong in bumping to 300wm being i eventually want a bear and really its for big game...other cartridges that offer similar ballistics seem to be lacking that punch.
then again i thought maybe since the .308 didnt exit it delivered all its energy where it belongs so is that maybe a better option?

what do the experts have to say???
If you have any pictures of entry/exit wounds please post. i will post a pic of my ar too.

warbirdlover · January 16, 2012, 02:30 PM

Doesn't a pig have a tough leathery protection thingy above or around his shoulder where you might have a penetration problem? I've never hunted the little rascals but I've read that somewhere.

Learn me!!

JGC · January 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

war,
i believe so, the have big bones and tough skin at 400+lbs so i bet penetration might be an issue thru bone and fat a 300wm should take care of it and be able to take bear with heavy loads, any input on someones experience? would be appreciated.

pics??

rickyrick · January 16, 2012, 03:14 PM

The pigs in my parts are rarely 300lbs, I have seen a couple but most are 200 or less.

I have shot them with;

9mm
45lc
.303 brit
.223

In my experience the .303 seemed too much.
I use .223 most of the time. If I were to see a 300 pound behemoth, I would take a shot at the smaller ones unless it was close.

However, at 400+ yards you will need a bullet that will get there I suppose.

All of my pig hunting is up close thanks to the mesquite jumble that I live in.

JerryM · January 16, 2012, 03:47 PM

In my view you will be much over gunned.
Jerry

rickyrick · January 16, 2012, 03:59 PM

I read the post about Your very accurate AR.

If you lessen your parameters on expected maximum range you should be ok.

Lower chest just behind the leg is a good place to shoot them even better is a mid neck shot.

The neck is actually a large Target.

Others may be able to tell you appropriate ranges and bullet weights.

rickyrick · January 16, 2012, 04:11 PM

Sorry,

I just posted this on another thread but it shows a .223 exit wound at 50yds.

He was a younger boar maybe 125. He is what I call nearly reverted, not completely red. See the white markings but has the long snout. You will see them in all stages of reversion but they have gotten mostly red here. no such thing as Russian.

PawPaw · January 16, 2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGC

would a .308 remy do???

I've never heard of the .308 remmy. There is a cartridge named the .308 Winchester, and there is an outfit in Ilion, NY that makes nice rifles. I'm sure that a good Remington in .308 should do just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGC

i saw a guy shoot a pig at 75 yards weighing around 75lbs and the bullet didnt exit!!!

He was using the wrong bullet, pushing it too fast, or of the wrong weight. We shoot hogs around here with .30-30s, using 170 grain flat nose cast bullets at about 1900 fps. Great penetration, through-and-through. A 75 lb pig isn't that big. Almost any cartridge should do fine on pigs that size.

PawPaw · January 16, 2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warbirdlover

Doesn't a pig have a tough leathery protection thingy above or around his shoulder where you might have a penetration problem? I've never hunted the little rascals but I've read that somewhere.

Sometimes, big breeding-age hogs will hook trees and brush, marking territory. In these piney woods, they'll mark pine trees by slashing them with their tusks, then rub their shoulders against them, marking the trees with scent. As the hog makes his rounds, the tree oozes sap and when the hog comes back around to that particular tree, he'll rub again, getting sap in the hair and skin on that shoulder. Eventually, he'll have a big patch of rosn-soaked hair on that shoulder. Under that shoulder is a big piece of gristle and fairly heavy muscle. If the pig has been fighting with other hogs, that's usually the spot where he'll have scar tissue as well. The combination of scar tissue, pine rosin, gristle, makes a pretty good shield on the shoulders.

I've seen bullets break up on the shoulder, but generally a good hard-cast bullet will plow on through. If you are shooting a standard soft-point, try to put your shot behind the shoulder for a double-lung shot. He'll pile up fast like that too.

Saltydog235 · January 16, 2012, 04:26 PM

Shot a 400+ lb boar last year with a 30'06 and a 165grn BT at 70 yards. He hit the dirt and his death throws pushed him and a bunch of dirt about 20 yards inside a thicket. I prefer a .243 with a 90grn BT to the earhole though, nothing says dead like a hole in the head.

Where have you seen a pig that charges you from a distance intent on eating your liver while you scream? The only pigs I've ever seen charge were penned up and cornered and had no option but to fight. Prior to that they had tried to flee. Its been my experience that when the dogs start flying, that'll tell you a pigs about to charge.

Funny thing, a lot of people wanting to gun for hogs want a huge caliber and much more powere than they need. Most of these boys I know want a good brace of dogs and a good sharp knife for the close in work. I'll take a pistol or shotgun.

PawPaw · January 16, 2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltydog235

Funny thing, a lot of people wanting to gun for hogs want a huge caliber and much more powere than they need. Most of these boys I know want a good brace of dogs and a good sharp knife for the close in work. I'll take a pistol or shotgun.

Hunting with dogs has fallen out of favor in most of our local woods. Back in the early '80s I was hunting with a bunch of guys who used dogs and followed on horseback. Lots of fun to follow the dogs on a horse. The most senior of the hunters used a Winchester 94 in .22 magnum and never had any trouble dropping his hog.

The biggest hog I ever killed I shot with a .22LR. He surprised me in the garden, so I grabbed a .22 and shot him between the eyes. He folded up like a cheap pocketknife. Then I had to get the lawn tractor and drag him out of the garden. Field dressed him at over 300 lbs. I suspect that he was someone's domestic hog who had gotten loose, but even after several weeks, no one had come asking about an errant hog. We ate from that pig for several months.

Deja vu · January 16, 2012, 07:47 PM

the only time I ever went hog hunting was in Oregon. I brought both a 45/70 and a 357 magnum rifle. The guide there said the 45/70 was too much gun so I took the 357 magnum. It worked great but the hogs are only about 100-125LBS.

I think if I was hunting in Texas I would take the 45/70.

rickyrick · January 16, 2012, 07:55 PM

I think that they are bigger in the swampy states.

JGC · January 17, 2012, 02:12 AM

rick what rnd?
iam thinking of hornady maybe gona give my ar a try and see how that goes, now iam curious to see it perform on medium to large game. should i stick to 55 or bump up to 62, or even 75? i shoot the 62 m88;s pretty well and accurate to 200 so far, havent gone to a longer range nearby for further testing.
So if 223, what bullet/weight? factory? which hornady or federal or whatever.

JGC · January 17, 2012, 02:13 AM

Hornady has been the most accurate for me so far but dont know which one to pick for hunting application, i know fmj is forbibben here so maybe a boat tail?

what gr for maximum penetration/damage ? iam guessing 55gr is good all around on speed and impact?? what do you all think?

rickyrick · January 17, 2012, 05:35 AM

This was a 55gr hollow point.

You must understand that these pigs are taken at close ranges.

I have a different set of parameters than most. These pigs are intermingled with livestock and I don't want an exit.

At 400yds I can't say that .223 would work.

It's not hard to get close to pigs, I usually find out where they go at night and wait for them to show up.

1tfl · January 17, 2012, 10:14 AM

We've shot hogs as large as 225 lb. with AR-15 using Remington 55gr PSP ammo. We shoot them on the neck or just below/behind the ear from pretty close range like 50 yards or less. Very rare we need a second shot. On rare occasion we've shot out at 100 yards and it still worked fine with neck shots.

JGC · January 17, 2012, 11:58 AM

i live in FL, maybe some of you are experienced in this state, mostly swampy especially Big Cypress which is where i plan to go first or whatever comes first.

Check out the pics, maybe ill just run with this. Let me know what you think and if you have pics post them.

JGC · January 17, 2012, 12:01 PM

1tfl · January 17, 2012, 12:11 PM

JGC

Nice rig but I would change out the scope to something with less magnification. In swamps and other such overgrown areas things are going to happen close up and any optics with more than 2X is going to be a disadvantage. An iron sight would work great too.

JGC · January 17, 2012, 12:37 PM

thanks,
Ive got the smaller one in 1.5x6, it provides good eye relief and proven itself at the range.IMG_3220.jpg, had it on a 44 magnum and worked flawlessly. Gona have to stick to the 1.5x6 for the bush, FLorida isnt your typical past 200 yard range state especially in the lower half of the state from what ive read.

January 15, 2012, 08:28 PM	#1
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	Big Game Rifle/Load Hi and thanks for taking the time, i am currently putting together a SPS 300 win mag in AICS Chassis for a solid all around minimum rifle setup topped with my SS10x scope/Extreme rings, cantilever, kestrel. My purpose is to reach 600 yards effectively for hunting purposes but will opt to stay inside of 400 for obvious reasons..weather..variables..etc. Purpose: Hunting 300lb+Pigs(boar/hog/russian boar) *Trophy's Eventually Elk up north and maybe the occassional Bear if legal and iam not looking to make it a habit but want enough gun. I have a box of winchester supreme 180gr cxp3 which i plan on trying out but i want to reload, chose the 300wm because i wanted enough penetration and power especially on these big pigs that like to charge (only going for the big ones i have an ar for the small ones). Going to collect data based on loads and the Berger 230's seem promissing with a bc 711, however i know there is a difference in bullets when hunting animals who arent so fragile.. i want something that will penetrate that big boar/bear shoulder and deliver that punch but hold up as well and expand appropriately, been looking into hornadys Amax's 178's,208's, and bergers 210-230gr, Please feel free to share and educated with your knowledge iam all ears! And if you dont mind posting pics of your big game/dangerous game rifle/setup as bonus. iam a picture guy I would really appreciate it and thanks for your help.

January 15, 2012, 08:56 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Man you must have some tuff pigs. Lots of people shoot them with 223s and pistols. Pretty much any rifle would work. Sounds like you'll have more money in ammo then the pig's worth. Pigs are normally in farming areas. I'd hate to think what would happen to one of those supper dupper 300s after they passed through the hog. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 16, 2012, 03:14 PM	#8
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	The pigs in my parts are rarely 300lbs, I have seen a couple but most are 200 or less. I have shot them with; 9mm 45lc .303 brit .223 In my experience the .303 seemed too much. I use .223 most of the time. If I were to see a 300 pound behemoth, I would take a shot at the smaller ones unless it was close. However, at 400+ yards you will need a bullet that will get there I suppose. All of my pig hunting is up close thanks to the mesquite jumble that I live in. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

January 16, 2012, 03:47 PM	#9
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	In my view you will be much over gunned. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

January 16, 2012, 03:59 PM	#10
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I read the post about Your very accurate AR. If you lessen your parameters on expected maximum range you should be ok. Lower chest just behind the leg is a good place to shoot them even better is a mid neck shot. The neck is actually a large Target. Others may be able to tell you appropriate ranges and bullet weights. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

January 15, 2012, 10:49 PM	#3
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Here ya go. 3400 fps muzzle velocity. http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Win...Superformance/

January 16, 2012, 01:30 PM	#4
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	Kraig, i thought the same thing being i have an AR Free Floated and scoped, iam getting very satisfying groups and with a 16inch barrel i thought it would be just the ticked with some 62 or 75gr loads but many are saying go bigger...never hunted a 300+hog before...

January 16, 2012, 01:34 PM	#5
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	warbird il def try them out nice trajectories. would a .308 remy do??? somewhere along the lines of 175gr or 168gr? i saw a guy shoot a pig at 75 yards weighing around 75lbs and the bullet didnt exit!!! not sure if the .308 will do the trick lacking speed=penetration, or iam i wrong in bumping to 300wm being i eventually want a bear and really its for big game...other cartridges that offer similar ballistics seem to be lacking that punch. then again i thought maybe since the .308 didnt exit it delivered all its energy where it belongs so is that maybe a better option? what do the experts have to say??? If you have any pictures of entry/exit wounds please post. i will post a pic of my ar too.

January 16, 2012, 02:30 PM	#6
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Doesn't a pig have a tough leathery protection thingy above or around his shoulder where you might have a penetration problem? I've never hunted the little rascals but I've read that somewhere. Learn me!!

January 16, 2012, 02:43 PM	#7
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	war, i believe so, the have big bones and tough skin at 400+lbs so i bet penetration might be an issue thru bone and fat a 300wm should take care of it and be able to take bear with heavy loads, any input on someones experience? would be appreciated. pics??

January 16, 2012, 04:11 PM	#11
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	Sorry, I just posted this on another thread but it shows a .223 exit wound at 50yds. He was a younger boar maybe 125. He is what I call nearly reverted, not completely red. See the white markings but has the long snout. You will see them in all stages of reversion but they have gotten mostly red here. no such thing as Russian. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

January 16, 2012, 04:26 PM	#14
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	Shot a 400+ lb boar last year with a 30'06 and a 165grn BT at 70 yards. He hit the dirt and his death throws pushed him and a bunch of dirt about 20 yards inside a thicket. I prefer a .243 with a 90grn BT to the earhole though, nothing says dead like a hole in the head. Where have you seen a pig that charges you from a distance intent on eating your liver while you scream? The only pigs I've ever seen charge were penned up and cornered and had no option but to fight. Prior to that they had tried to flee. Its been my experience that when the dogs start flying, that'll tell you a pigs about to charge. Funny thing, a lot of people wanting to gun for hogs want a huge caliber and much more powere than they need. Most of these boys I know want a good brace of dogs and a good sharp knife for the close in work. I'll take a pistol or shotgun.

January 16, 2012, 07:47 PM	#16
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	the only time I ever went hog hunting was in Oregon. I brought both a 45/70 and a 357 magnum rifle. The guide there said the 45/70 was too much gun so I took the 357 magnum. It worked great but the hogs are only about 100-125LBS. I think if I was hunting in Texas I would take the 45/70. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

January 16, 2012, 07:55 PM	#17
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I think that they are bigger in the swampy states. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

January 17, 2012, 02:12 AM	#18
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	rick what rnd? iam thinking of hornady maybe gona give my ar a try and see how that goes, now iam curious to see it perform on medium to large game. should i stick to 55 or bump up to 62, or even 75? i shoot the 62 m88;s pretty well and accurate to 200 so far, havent gone to a longer range nearby for further testing. So if 223, what bullet/weight? factory? which hornady or federal or whatever.

January 17, 2012, 02:13 AM	#19
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	Hornady has been the most accurate for me so far but dont know which one to pick for hunting application, i know fmj is forbibben here so maybe a boat tail? what gr for maximum penetration/damage ? iam guessing 55gr is good all around on speed and impact?? what do you all think?

January 17, 2012, 05:35 AM	#20
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	This was a 55gr hollow point. You must understand that these pigs are taken at close ranges. I have a different set of parameters than most. These pigs are intermingled with livestock and I don't want an exit. At 400yds I can't say that .223 would work. It's not hard to get close to pigs, I usually find out where they go at night and wait for them to show up. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

January 17, 2012, 10:14 AM	#21
1tfl Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2007 Posts: 287	We've shot hogs as large as 225 lb. with AR-15 using Remington 55gr PSP ammo. We shoot them on the neck or just below/behind the ear from pretty close range like 50 yards or less. Very rare we need a second shot. On rare occasion we've shot out at 100 yards and it still worked fine with neck shots.

January 17, 2012, 11:58 AM	#22
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	i live in FL, maybe some of you are experienced in this state, mostly swampy especially Big Cypress which is where i plan to go first or whatever comes first. Check out the pics, maybe ill just run with this. Let me know what you think and if you have pics post them. Last edited by JGC; January 17, 2012 at 12:03 PM.

January 17, 2012, 12:11 PM	#24
1tfl Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2007 Posts: 287	JGC Nice rig but I would change out the scope to something with less magnification. In swamps and other such overgrown areas things are going to happen close up and any optics with more than 2X is going to be a disadvantage. An iron sight would work great too.

January 17, 2012, 12:37 PM	#25
JGC Member Join Date: December 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 69	thanks, Ive got the smaller one in 1.5x6, it provides good eye relief and proven itself at the range.IMG_3220.jpg, had it on a 44 magnum and worked flawlessly. Gona have to stick to the 1.5x6 for the bush, FLorida isnt your typical past 200 yard range state especially in the lower half of the state from what ive read.