extended/ported choke tubes.

seansean1444 · December 21, 2010, 07:20 PM

hi guys just trying to get some opinions on the extended and ported choke tubes? anybody use them

Doyle · December 21, 2010, 07:40 PM

I won't use them simply because of the "ugly factor".

zippy13 · December 21, 2010, 07:54 PM

Since shotguns operate at lower pressures, they need a larger port area than a typical single chamber handgun compensator. The majority of my shotguns have factory or custom porting. With all of them, the porting is well before the choke area.

IMHO, extended screw-ins work well for what they were initially intended: when sporting clays was in its infancy, many shooters were frequently making choke changes, and the extended chokes seemed easier/quicker to change. Some report positive results with ported extended choke tubes; but, I suspect the added weight reduces recoil as much as the near-muzzle porting. If you want the advantages of porting, have the barrel(s) ported and use un-vented chokes.

pabuckslayer08 · December 21, 2010, 07:55 PM

I have one on my 11-87 thats probably 4" long thats ported. They dont look the best but man do they hold a pattern. Tight as in I mean tight. Mine holds less than a 20-24 inch group at 50 yards from my 12gauge with 3" turkey mags. Also the port on them doesnt work. It shoots equally the same as far as kick without it

oneounceload · December 21, 2010, 09:09 PM

Extended chokes are nice if you shoot sporting or similar as you can immediately see what is in the barrel. Ported chokes do NOTHING except make the tube porter rich..............and add more noise backwards towards your squadmates

maierar · December 22, 2010, 09:16 AM

If you are using a semi-auto, ported chokes may work better for you than barrel porting as the barrel porting may reduce the gas pressure to a point where the gun will not cycle properly, especially with light loads. (Baretta stopped porting their Teknys for this reason and they recommend against porting semis, but the do recommend ported extended chokes).

oneounceload · December 22, 2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

If you are using a semi-auto, ported chokes may work better for you than barrel porting as the barrel porting may reduce the gas pressure to a point where the gun will not cycle properly, especially with light loads. (Baretta stopped porting their Teknys for this reason and they recommend against porting semis, but the do recommend ported extended chokes).

The gas is already bled off by the time the load gets to the ports. Ports going around in a circle, like those on a choke tube do nothing for recoil or muzzle rise (the original intent of the porting and why originally, it was typically done on only the lower barrel

BigJimP · December 22, 2010, 12:45 PM

I like the extended chokes / so I can easily see whats in the gun - and they're a little easier to change.

Ported vs non-ported chokes ....on an un-ported barrel, it might make a difference .....

All of my 12ga and 20ga guns have ported barrels - and I like them a lot ( and I definitely thinks it reduces muzzle jump between shots ).

I don't have any "ported chokes" ....and I haven't really done a comparison. If you like the way they look / buy them ...

zippy13 · December 22, 2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

the original intent of the porting and why originally, it was typically done on only the lower barrel

1-oz, my friend, I think this needs some explanation for the newer shooters: It's my understanding, with an O/U configuration, the laws of physics make the top barrel (because of increased eccentricity) "hop" more than the bottom. Consequently, when shooting doubles with an O/U, most folks use the bottom barrel first to minimize barrel "hop" and thus let them get their second target quicker. By porting the bottom barrel, the shooter can get on his second target even faster. If you are porting to reduce muzzle rise, then it doesn't make sense to port the second shot (top) barrel.

oneounceload · December 22, 2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

1-oz, my friend, I think this needs some explanation for the newer shooters: It's my understanding, with an O/U configuration, the laws of physics make the top barrel (because of increased eccentricity) "hop" more than the bottom. Consequently, when shooting doubles with an O/U, most folks use the bottom barrel first to minimize barrel "hop" and thus let them get their second target quicker. By porting the bottom barrel, the shooter can get on his second target even faster. If you are porting to reduce muzzle rise, then it doesn't make sense to port the second shot (top) barrel.

Couldn't have said it better myself!......

I have shot identical loads through identical Brownings - one with porting, one without, (these were Superposeds Trap guns) - there was no difference in muzzle rise as witnessed by several shooters. (we were trying to see what it would do - this happened back when porting was in its infancy). It DID increase the noise and felt muzzle blast to shooters on the sides. All who shot both came to the same conclusion on recoil - no difference. The recoil push, IMO, has already started and finished by the time the ejecta gets to the porting.

JMO, YMMV

BigJimP · December 22, 2010, 02:21 PM

For the benefit of newer shooters ....looking at buying guns with or without porting / or this OP's issue on ported chokes .... Zippy and OneOunce and I agree and disagree on some aspects of this "porting issue" ...

I'm in the camp that it does nothing to reduce recoil ...

I think it does reduce "muzzle jump" ...between shots / making it easier to acquire the 2nd target. Personally, I wouldn't buy a 12ga or 20ga without porting ...but I have all the guns I want and I'm not really looking for another shotgun anyway ...

. The only guns I've been able to really compare side by side ....is a Browning XS Skeet model in 12ga and one in 20ga / mine are both ported ....but we did some comparisons with other shooter's guns of very close weights that were not ported ( it was a slow day at the club and we were bored ...). 4 or 5 shooters - shot the guns .... consensus was pretty well split on recoil and muzzle rise .....

I think Zippy's point about not really needing to port the top barrel is interesting.... ( and on my O/U's the top barrel is ported differently than the bottom barrel ) ....and 90% of the time, he's right, I don't think it matters on the top barrel.

I don't really think the extra noise from porting is a big deal to squad-mates. On Skeet and Sporting ....squad mates are behind the shooter anyway ...on Trap, they're close, but I don't think its significant. I am very sensitive to my squad mates ....and I wouldn't stand just outside the cage on a sporting course, shoulder to shoulder - with the shooter, or let anyone stand beside me that close when I was shooting ....( but I will admit the noise from a ported gun would be worse probably ).

Now - to defeat my own argument .... I have five Browning Citori XS Skeet models - all O/U's - ( in 12, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...) and the 28ga and .410 are not ported... I will also admit, that I don't miss the porting in the 28ga or the .410 guns ( and they are all built on the 20ga receiver, same gross weight at 7.25lbs, same barrel length) .... 1200 fps is the same out of a 12ga or a 28ga ....but the difference in the amount of shot makes a big difference in recoil .....
1200 fps 7/8 oz of shot ( in 20ga) is 15.03 Ft Lbs of recoil
1200 fps 3/4 oz of shot ( in 28ga ) is 10.85 Ft Lbs of recoil ( about 28% less)
1200 fps 1/2 oz of shot ( in .410) is 5.77 Ft Lbs of recoil ( 62% less than 20ga)....

porting does not factor into reduced recoil, in my opinion ....

and what's most interesting to me, is even though Zippy, OneOunce and I each have well over 50 yrs experience with shotguns ....we still disagree on certain aspects of this discussion ... and on the OP's original issue on ported choke tubes ..... ( but then that's why we all hang out here for awhile each day too ) ....to discuss this stuff..../ and maybe there is no absolute right or wrong answer ....

mete · December 22, 2010, 02:29 PM

Porting is NOT effective with light loads !!! Only with full loads will you get benefit !
That should be obvious if you understand the physics of the porting but we also tested two matched guns , one ported and one unported . No one could see or feel any difference with target loads.

zippy13 · December 22, 2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJimP

I think Zippy's point about not really needing to port the top barrel is interesting.... ( and on my O/U's the top barrel is ported differently than the bottom barrel ) ....and 90% of the time, he's right, I don't think it matters on the top barrel.

Yes, my friend, but I qualified my comment with, "If you are porting to reduce muzzle rise." Those who subscribe to the premise that porting reduces rise AND recoil, then it makes sense to provide the top barrel with a larger vent area because that barrel has a little more kick than the lower one. (Apparently the engineers at Browning are in this camp, or perhaps it's their marketing mavens.

)

For those of you who shoot Mossbergs, and are curious about porting, they offer one of the best deals around. They make the statement, "Barrel porting helps reduce muzzle jump and felt recoil," and will port their barrels for $35.00, or a refinish and porting for $65.00. Perhaps you'd like a new beginning for a nasty looking Mossy barrel.

oneounceload · December 22, 2010, 04:00 PM

Now Zippy, my friend, I doubt your Perazzis came ported.....(they still don't), as is the same with Kreighoff and Kolar, Ljutic, etc..........all of the top brands in their respective arenas do not come with porting.........as to Browning, since they are nothing more than a marketing comapny, I suspect your comment in that regard to be more likely the reason...after all, their Belgian guns do not come ported, nor do the likes of Fabbri, FAMARS, H&H, Purdey, etc........

zippy13 · December 22, 2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

Now Zippy, my friend, I doubt your Perazzis came ported.....

Guess what... my ancient SC3 came with vented Tula chokes.
FYI, from an old Perazzi catalog:

Our Skeet models have four slots cut into both sides of the barrels at the muzzle; this reduces both recoil and muzzle flip - a tendency of the barrels to rise upwards at the moment of firing.

BigJimP · December 22, 2010, 05:25 PM

Aw come on OneOunce .....I have a drill press.....bring that Krieghoff over here ....I'll port it for you ....

but seriously, from most mfg's ....porting is an option ... / although with the optimum system being a carrier barrel and a full tube set for 20ga, 28ga and .410 ....it is not something you'd want to do ( the tubes would cover the holes anyway ....) when you fit them in the carrier barrel ....

and while I don't see "barrel porting" listed on the custom service options on Kolar or Krieghoff's site .....I'll be they would do it if you asked ..... or maybe I should do a search under "barrel butchering" ...??

...but I'm just a cheap Browning shooter ....

zippy13 · December 22, 2010, 07:37 PM

BigJim…
Drill press, you don't need no stinkin' drill press -- just get a cut-off wheel for your moto-tool. You can free hand some shark-gill vents in the barrels in no time at all.

One of the earliest carrier-barrel Skeet guns I remember seeing was a K-80 that was ported, a Kolar job as I recall. The tubes were indexed so the ports of the carrier and tubes would align. With my P-SC3, Briley stopped the tubes at the back of vented jugs.

December 21, 2010, 07:20 PM	#1
seansean1444 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: ithaca, new york (home of the ithaca shotguns!) Posts: 395	extended/ported choke tubes. hi guys just trying to get some opinions on the extended and ported choke tubes? anybody use them

December 22, 2010, 02:29 PM	#12
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Porting is NOT effective with light loads !!! Only with full loads will you get benefit ! That should be obvious if you understand the physics of the porting but we also tested two matched guns , one ported and one unported . No one could see or feel any difference with target loads. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

December 21, 2010, 07:40 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	I won't use them simply because of the "ugly factor".

December 21, 2010, 07:54 PM	#3
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Since shotguns operate at lower pressures, they need a larger port area than a typical single chamber handgun compensator. The majority of my shotguns have factory or custom porting. With all of them, the porting is well before the choke area. IMHO, extended screw-ins work well for what they were initially intended: when sporting clays was in its infancy, many shooters were frequently making choke changes, and the extended chokes seemed easier/quicker to change. Some report positive results with ported extended choke tubes; but, I suspect the added weight reduces recoil as much as the near-muzzle porting. If you want the advantages of porting, have the barrel(s) ported and use un-vented chokes.

December 21, 2010, 07:55 PM	#4
pabuckslayer08 Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2010 Location: South Central Pa Posts: 692	I have one on my 11-87 thats probably 4" long thats ported. They dont look the best but man do they hold a pattern. Tight as in I mean tight. Mine holds less than a 20-24 inch group at 50 yards from my 12gauge with 3" turkey mags. Also the port on them doesnt work. It shoots equally the same as far as kick without it

December 21, 2010, 09:09 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Extended chokes are nice if you shoot sporting or similar as you can immediately see what is in the barrel. Ported chokes do NOTHING except make the tube porter rich..............and add more noise backwards towards your squadmates

December 22, 2010, 09:16 AM	#6
maierar Member Join Date: March 9, 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 33	If you are using a semi-auto, ported chokes may work better for you than barrel porting as the barrel porting may reduce the gas pressure to a point where the gun will not cycle properly, especially with light loads. (Baretta stopped porting their Teknys for this reason and they recommend against porting semis, but the do recommend ported extended chokes).

December 22, 2010, 12:45 PM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I like the extended chokes / so I can easily see whats in the gun - and they're a little easier to change. Ported vs non-ported chokes ....on an un-ported barrel, it might make a difference ..... All of my 12ga and 20ga guns have ported barrels - and I like them a lot ( and I definitely thinks it reduces muzzle jump between shots ). I don't have any "ported chokes" ....and I haven't really done a comparison. If you like the way they look / buy them ...

December 22, 2010, 02:21 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	For the benefit of newer shooters ....looking at buying guns with or without porting / or this OP's issue on ported chokes .... Zippy and OneOunce and I agree and disagree on some aspects of this "porting issue" ... I'm in the camp that it does nothing to reduce recoil ... I think it does reduce "muzzle jump" ...between shots / making it easier to acquire the 2nd target. Personally, I wouldn't buy a 12ga or 20ga without porting ...but I have all the guns I want and I'm not really looking for another shotgun anyway ... . The only guns I've been able to really compare side by side ....is a Browning XS Skeet model in 12ga and one in 20ga / mine are both ported ....but we did some comparisons with other shooter's guns of very close weights that were not ported ( it was a slow day at the club and we were bored ...). 4 or 5 shooters - shot the guns .... consensus was pretty well split on recoil and muzzle rise ..... I think Zippy's point about not really needing to port the top barrel is interesting.... ( and on my O/U's the top barrel is ported differently than the bottom barrel ) ....and 90% of the time, he's right, I don't think it matters on the top barrel. I don't really think the extra noise from porting is a big deal to squad-mates. On Skeet and Sporting ....squad mates are behind the shooter anyway ...on Trap, they're close, but I don't think its significant. I am very sensitive to my squad mates ....and I wouldn't stand just outside the cage on a sporting course, shoulder to shoulder - with the shooter, or let anyone stand beside me that close when I was shooting ....( but I will admit the noise from a ported gun would be worse probably ). Now - to defeat my own argument .... I have five Browning Citori XS Skeet models - all O/U's - ( in 12, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...) and the 28ga and .410 are not ported... I will also admit, that I don't miss the porting in the 28ga or the .410 guns ( and they are all built on the 20ga receiver, same gross weight at 7.25lbs, same barrel length) .... 1200 fps is the same out of a 12ga or a 28ga ....but the difference in the amount of shot makes a big difference in recoil ..... 1200 fps 7/8 oz of shot ( in 20ga) is 15.03 Ft Lbs of recoil 1200 fps 3/4 oz of shot ( in 28ga ) is 10.85 Ft Lbs of recoil ( about 28% less) 1200 fps 1/2 oz of shot ( in .410) is 5.77 Ft Lbs of recoil ( 62% less than 20ga).... porting does not factor into reduced recoil, in my opinion .... and what's most interesting to me, is even though Zippy, OneOunce and I each have well over 50 yrs experience with shotguns ....we still disagree on certain aspects of this discussion ... and on the OP's original issue on ported choke tubes ..... ( but then that's why we all hang out here for awhile each day too ) ....to discuss this stuff..../ and maybe there is no absolute right or wrong answer ....

December 22, 2010, 04:00 PM	#14
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Now Zippy, my friend, I doubt your Perazzis came ported.....(they still don't), as is the same with Kreighoff and Kolar, Ljutic, etc..........all of the top brands in their respective arenas do not come with porting.........as to Browning, since they are nothing more than a marketing comapny, I suspect your comment in that regard to be more likely the reason...after all, their Belgian guns do not come ported, nor do the likes of Fabbri, FAMARS, H&H, Purdey, etc........

December 22, 2010, 05:25 PM	#16
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Aw come on OneOunce .....I have a drill press.....bring that Krieghoff over here ....I'll port it for you .... but seriously, from most mfg's ....porting is an option ... / although with the optimum system being a carrier barrel and a full tube set for 20ga, 28ga and .410 ....it is not something you'd want to do ( the tubes would cover the holes anyway ....) when you fit them in the carrier barrel .... and while I don't see "barrel porting" listed on the custom service options on Kolar or Krieghoff's site .....I'll be they would do it if you asked ..... or maybe I should do a search under "barrel butchering" ...?? ...but I'm just a cheap Browning shooter ....

December 22, 2010, 07:37 PM	#17
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	BigJim… Drill press, you don't need no stinkin' drill press -- just get a cut-off wheel for your moto-tool. You can free hand some shark-gill vents in the barrels in no time at all. One of the earliest carrier-barrel Skeet guns I remember seeing was a K-80 that was ported, a Kolar job as I recall. The tubes were indexed so the ports of the carrier and tubes would align. With my P-SC3, Briley stopped the tubes at the back of vented jugs.