Need help tweaking a load for my .25-06

[steveNChunter]

I'm pretty new to reloading and I've been doing some experimenting with Ramshot hunter powder in my Howa .25-06. So far with the first load I've worked up, I'm getting 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards. Not hardly acceptable for me. I'm loading the book-max of 55.3 gr under 100 gr NBT's with Winchester magnum primers at an overall length of 3.245. (max OAL is 3.250) I'm not getting any signs of excess pressure. Also guess I should mention I'm not crimping.

What should I change first to try to tighten my groups up? Should I shorten my OAL a little? I also have some Fed 210 primers I could switch to, but I figured if anything the mag primers would help the hunter powder burn more evenly. If the hunter powder just ends up not being worth a hoot in my rifle, I have some IMR 4831 I'll be using next. Give this newb some guidance

[stevelyn]

Are you following a published recipe using the primers listed? To my knowledge, you don't need magnum primers with Ramshot powders especially in a 30-06 based case. Hunter isn't temperature sensitive nor hard to light and you aren't having to light off a large volume.

Temps in your part of the country shouldn't be much of an issue anyway and sometimes magnum primers can tend to make an otherwise good load a bit squirrelly. Neck tension (crimp) shouldn't be much of an issue if you are using quality dies.

Most of us will do "ladders" when load developing. Pick your bullet. Pick your powder based on the load recipe and starting with the starting load and ending with the max, load up a half-dozen or more with each charge weight and then go out and shoot groups to find out which is showing promise.

Some guns do their best running at max some do better somewhere under max.

Seating depth could be an issue, but generally if you are seating the bullets to the specified COL in the load manual you should be ok and should only be futzed with for fine tuning once you find an accurate load.

If you still aren't happy then you should think about changing a component such as powder, primers or bullet manufacturer. If you change a componet, change just one and experiment with the charge recipes until you can rule out that particular component as the culprit.

Keep meticulous records on what you're doing.

Remember, reloading is a process......... a continual grand experiment.

[eldermike]

In 25-06 I eventually settled in on 4831 and flat based bullets. You might want to keep your load as is and try a flat based bullet. The methodology already posted is very good advise, change one thing at a time and keep notes.

[BumbleBug]

Excellent advice from stevelyn on tweaking handloads. But are you sure that your poor accuracy is not related to the gun? Does your .25-06 shoot better with factory loads?


...bug

[steveNChunter]

Does your .25-06 shoot better with factory loads?

I was sub-MOA with Federal Fusion 120 gr. I wanted to go with a lighter bullet for my handloads. I settled on the 100 gr Nosler BT's for their reputation for accuracy and good expansion.

Seating depth could be an issue, but generally if you are seating the bullets to the specified COL in the load manual you should be ok and should only be futzed with for fine tuning once you find an accurate load.

The load data from the Ramshot website lists an OAL of 3.215 with a sierra 100 gr HPBT. I was trying to load close as I could to the max OAL for the cartridge.

Maybe I'll try backing down to 3.215 before changing anything else. The Sierra HPBT and Nosler BT are both boat-tail and should be close in length, I think. If that doesnt help, I may switch to a standard LR primer.

Most of us will do "ladders" when load developing.

I started 3 gr below what I'm loading now, but it was rainy the day I loaded them so I just loaded a couple in increments of half a grain and worked up till I got to the max and shot them out the back door into a bank just to check for signs of excessive pressure. I should have shot some groups as I worked up as you said but the weather and my impatience prevailed.

[BumbleBug]

It could be your Howa just doesn't like Ramshot hunter powder. Sometimes certain gun-calibers combo's can be quite "finicky". This is especially true of high-intensity cartridges like the .25-06. I'd definitely give the 4831 a try.

Good Luck...

...bug

[Colorado Redneck]

Is the powder my 25-06 likes best with 100 gr. BT. WLR primers, FL resize, no crimp, work up using Hodgdon data. Max load works best for this recipe, YMMV.

As said before, different rifles like different powders etc. My 25-06 won't group worth squat with any of the Nosler Partitions I have tried.

Good luck. The 100 gr. BT is an excellent performer on deer and antelope and shoots flat.

[Farmland]

I love the 25-06 and it makes a nice long range hog gun. I have a H&R Model SB2 Ultra. It is a simple single shot with a heavy barrel.

I use a 85 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, it is a Boat tail bullet too. I found that anything heavier was not as accurate or consistent in this rifle.

I use RL-19 powder at 53.5gr. This works the best in my rifle after some experimenting. In addition I have my bullet set to touch the lands.

This combination has proven to be the best accurate round I have developed for this rifle.

Primers have not made a difference as I have used Federal and Winchester with the same results.

The load data for RL-15 is as follows from the Nosler #6 book.

max -57gr min - 53 gr
primer - WLR


It took me about a weekend to develop this load for my rifle. It was fun but it did take some experimenting to get this set up for long range. I did note that by moving the bullet out I had to reduce the powder as the pressure was increased and to be honest it wasn't that accurate with a higher powder load.

I have tried many powders and they all do ok to good but RL-15 is the powder that works for my load development and gun.

[hooligan1]

OOOohhh Farmland I like those 85's my dang self, only the rifle likes 49 grains of IMR 4350.... It shoots those into a tight group at 100 yds.

[Nathan]

What barrel twist?

Why are you using mag primers?

Last, what are your normal and best 5 shot, 100 yd group sizes?

[steveNChunter]

The barrel is a 1:10. I'm using mag primers because the temps can get mighty cold in the NC mountains where I live, especially late in deer season. I also had read some forum threads that said hunter powder did better with mag primers especially with loads that didn't fill the case. Neither of those reasons may be good reasons, I don't know. I just shot this load at 50 yards enough to get my scope zeroed and shoot a few groups. I shot (3) 3 shot groups, each one was between an inch and 1 and a half inches at 50 yards. For that reason, I didn't even try them at 100.

[Mike / Tx]

I would love to say just do this and you will be good but we all know better than that.

I have put plenty of pounds of powder through my 25-06 and it hasn't been finicky but with one bullet in 20 something years or more. That bullet is the Sierra 100gr.It simply don't like but one load with that bullet period.

What I would however suggest is starting out with your bullets seated as long as will function from your magazine, and work up from there. Drop the mag primers you don't need them in this caliber with any powder you will need especially with 100gr bullets.

Start over again working up your loads and work them again in half grain increments. That particular powder is pretty forgiving and you will see that once you start shooting 3-5 shot groups. I usually use 3 shots on a poster board covered with 3/4" round stickers for my work ups. It makes it easy to see the group sizes and also to keep track of each load increment.

Once you have your loads worked up in a ladder fashion you will see where the tighter groups are. From there work your seating depth down in .005" increments. If you go much more you can easily jump right over an excellent node.

For most of my 25-06 loads I use a dummy round which has the 100gr BT epoxied in place at 3.250" on the money from base to tip. I use this to set my seater with every other bullets as this is just whee my rifle likes things to be. It doesn't matter if they are 100's, 110's 115's or 120's, longer or shorter and the groups spread out.

If you also decide that the Ramshot powder isn't working for you, I can highly suggest RL-22 as THE powder for this particular caliber. With the 100's you might could also go with IMR-4831 or RL-19, but any of these, or actually what you already have, with a bit of work and attention to detail will do well with this particular case size. To be honest I have tried about every recommended powder and primer combination, along with a host of load book top accuracy loads, and what I listed above with either Rem, or Win cases, lit with either Winchester WLR's or CCI LR primers has worked equally well. I gave H-4831 a real good run but it simply cold not equal the accuracy nor the velocity I got using the IMR with the 100's. Bumping up to the 110's and up RL-22 is definitely the ticket.

I hope your loads work out for you with your new rifle. I love the 25 and have had many a year of pleasant shooting. I have passed it over to my only daughter and oldest grandson, and they have both used it on several nice bucks. I built me an AI version and am running Ramshot Magnum in it.

[Nevmavrick]

The first thing you need to do is find out where you bullet-ogive is in relation to the rifling. It's a good idea to start about .030" back, as many hunting rifles shoot best there.
Then find a book-load and drop about 2gr with another .5gr for every componant that is different from what the book used. You MAY end up 4gr or more down from the high end of the book.
Then shoot 3-shot groups at 100yd (or as close to that as you can.
With a cartridge as big as the .25/06, you can advance about .5gr at a time, until you see signs of excessive pressure. One of the signs is a sudden enlargening of the group after they started getting smaller. After THAT point, you change a componant at a time, until you're satisfied. I use a chronograph and keep an eye out for rapid, excessive changes, but most shooters don't, and don't need one, anyway.
As you're shooting, be sure you load the rifle the same...every time.
For instance...put the rifle on the sandbags, then put a round in the magazine, and close the bolt. Or...point the barrel up, then close the bolt, and lay the rifle carefully back on to the bags. WHATEVER you do, do it the same every time.
Hunter is a good powder, but, in the .25/06, there is some airspace so there MAY be a variation from shot to shot. IMR 4831 fills the case better, so the "planting" of the rifle may be less important.
shooting at 50 yards, or "into a bank" in the rain will just cost you mony and give no return. There is a shot to shot variation that only 1 or 2 prolly won't tell you much.
As you shoot 3 (or 5) rounds you now have more examples to get a pressure-reading.
Have fun,
Gene

[steveNChunter]

Thanks guys for those last two posts. Will be using info from both of them

[steveNChunter]

Just wanted to update everyone who gave me all the great advice. Finally found a load that groups three shots an average of 3/4 MOA. I finally ditched Ramshot hunter and went with the imr 4831 as it was showing to be more accurate vs. the hunter with each load, primer, or seating depth change that I made. Also I learned that my gun REALLY likes the WLR mag primers with the imr 4831. My group size shrank in half when I switched from the Fed 210's. I wanted to shoot my book's max load of 54.0 gr but the best my rifle could do at that load was about 1.5 MOA. (also the book data was with a regular LR primer) I backed it back down half a grain and got just under MOA. Then I played around with the seating depth and found that an OAL of 3.235-3.240" was the "sweet spot" for me. My rifle is very picky about this and even at 3.245 or 3.230 the groups were opening up quite a bit. I settled on 3.240" and loaded up several to practice/hunt with.

Here's the load:

100 gr Nosler Ballistic tip

53.5 gr IMR 4831

OAL- 3.240"

Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers.

I'm not sure what kind of velocity I'm getting with this load (my 22" barrel doesn't help). But I'm optimistically guessing about 3150 or so from my rifle. Which should be more than enough to make the NBT's make a mess out of a deer's shoulder on the way through. We'll see this fall