was wondering, over under vs semi-auto

MJRW · December 23, 2002, 10:35 PM

What about the over-under makes it better for trap and skeet vs a semi-auto? Is it more reliable due to a lack of cycling mechanisms and no jamming? Are semis sufficiently reliable to make this not worth considering? What other things might make an over-under better?

Jim Watson · December 23, 2002, 10:59 PM

I shoot trap singles with an auto to reduce the felt recoil.
I shoot trap doubles with an O/U because it has two different chokes for the first and second target, because it is more reliable than my auto (yours may be better), and because it has no clanking and clunking between shots.
Most high-ranked trapshooters use single barrels or unsingle barrels on O/U frames for singles for the simplicity, reliability and handling.

I think the main reason most serious skeet shooters use an O/U on skeet is that it will take sub-gauge tubes so they can shoot all gauges with the same gun. I shoot my occasional round of skeet with an O/U as for trap doubles. It is reliable and there is no cycling of the action to distract me. Most people are not bothered by the action of the auto and would be better off with one for recreational skeet. But the AA shooters really benefit from the tube guns.

Goaltender66 · December 24, 2002, 07:29 AM

PMFJI.

When I was looking at shotguns I tried on a couple of O/Us. I found the balance to be a little different than the Rem. 870 I ended up buying (or rather had bought for me...merry Christmas, Goalie), and I can see how the O/U would be quite conducive to trap/skeet. It seemed to be more "balanced" since it didn't have the magazine or the other parts.

Goalie

BigG · December 24, 2002, 08:33 AM

I think the balance of an O/U or a good SxS is a whole LOT better than any repeater.

The snob appeal is certainly a part but if you get a Browning Superposed, for example, that fits you it is really a pretty big step ahead of any pump or auto. I am a pretty big fan of the SxS, too, but they are not "fashionable" these days unless you have 5 digit checks for a quality built item.

Another reason: It is obvious if the gun is safe when the bbls are broken. A repeater takes more observation.

All that said, I have brought my autoloader or short bbled SxS and dusted more clays than some guys with their expensive stump wood/engraved O/Us. So there is a good degree of fashion follow the leader in there, too.

Dave McC · December 24, 2002, 04:25 PM

(The soft hiss of a fresh can of worms being opened)...

People get all bent out of shape about the kind of shotgun, but no design has any major advantage over the others AS A DESIGN. Some SxS shotguns are superbly made and balanced, so are some O/Us. Compare a Grant and Piotti.

Repeaters have more mass appeal, due to price and multiple shots. But, either a pump or auto can be tweaked into balancing perfectly. Same with fit, easier with the repeaters, shims and so on make getting the fit relatively easy compared to the major stock bending or restocking some doubles of either kind need to fit a mission and shooter.

It all boils down to getting whatever you prefer, fit it to you, and then shoot it until it feels like a body part.

It's not the piano, it's the pianist....

HSMITH · December 24, 2002, 04:45 PM

The O/U SHOULD be more reliable than the pump or auto. Unless you are a dedicated shooter you will never know the difference. The top autoloaders on the market are VERY reliable.

The O/U will last longer than a typical repeater, but are you really going to shoot in excess of 250,000 rounds through the gun to find the advantage?

Balance of the top level autoloaders is on par with that of most sub $2000 O/U guns.

The O/U gives you the choice of choke for the barrels, with a repeater you are stuck with what is in the barrel. With the O/U you can have a light and a tight choke to work any shot that may present itself while hunting or on targets with one close and one out further. With the single barrel you have to use the tightest choke you might need on the station or hunt. Not a big deal, but still a valid point.

There is one HUGE advantage to the O/U for the target shooter, and ALL of us will find it shooting trap doubles, skeet and sporting. That is you do not have to police up hulls, and LOTS of clubs have a rule that if it hits the ground they own it keeping you from saving hulls. If you shoot more than just casually and are not independently wealthy you will end up reloading sooner or later.

There is one HUGE advantage to the autoloader and that is lower felt recoil. With lower felt recoil you can shoot longer while practicing meaningfully. If you want to get better the lowered pounding will let you take more quality shots and you can improve quicker. Light loads help in the fixed breech guns, but they still hit harder on your end of the gun.

I have several of both. I use the autos more these days, but still LOVE my O/U guns. If I am seriously going to try to hit them all or am shooting over a wager the O/U comes out simply because I have somewhere around 85-90K rounds through one in particular. It is as natural as my left arm, and I shoot it like it is. Otherwise the auto is the ticket, I shoot them pretty well and the lowered recoil is nice. Buy one of each, or pick the one you want today. Times and tastes change, if you get into shooting you will be buying a few more guns and working through them until you find "THE ONE".

Dave speaks the absolute truth. The gun does not make the shooter, it is the loose nut on the stock that makes the difference. Shoot and shoot and shoot, that is how you will get good regardless of money spent on the gun.

December 23, 2002, 10:35 PM	#1
MJRW Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2002 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 260	was wondering, over under vs semi-auto What about the over-under makes it better for trap and skeet vs a semi-auto? Is it more reliable due to a lack of cycling mechanisms and no jamming? Are semis sufficiently reliable to make this not worth considering? What other things might make an over-under better? __________________ Whar's me Ruger?

December 24, 2002, 08:33 AM	#4
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	I think the balance of an O/U or a good SxS is a whole LOT better than any repeater. The snob appeal is certainly a part but if you get a Browning Superposed, for example, that fits you it is really a pretty big step ahead of any pump or auto. I am a pretty big fan of the SxS, too, but they are not "fashionable" these days unless you have 5 digit checks for a quality built item. Another reason: It is obvious if the gun is safe when the bbls are broken. A repeater takes more observation. All that said, I have brought my autoloader or short bbled SxS and dusted more clays than some guys with their expensive stump wood/engraved O/Us. So there is a good degree of fashion follow the leader in there, too. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

December 23, 2002, 10:59 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I shoot trap singles with an auto to reduce the felt recoil. I shoot trap doubles with an O/U because it has two different chokes for the first and second target, because it is more reliable than my auto (yours may be better), and because it has no clanking and clunking between shots. Most high-ranked trapshooters use single barrels or unsingle barrels on O/U frames for singles for the simplicity, reliability and handling. I think the main reason most serious skeet shooters use an O/U on skeet is that it will take sub-gauge tubes so they can shoot all gauges with the same gun. I shoot my occasional round of skeet with an O/U as for trap doubles. It is reliable and there is no cycling of the action to distract me. Most people are not bothered by the action of the auto and would be better off with one for recreational skeet. But the AA shooters really benefit from the tube guns.

December 24, 2002, 07:29 AM	#3
Goaltender66 Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Oak Hill, VA...the cultural penumbra of Washington DC Posts: 43	PMFJI. When I was looking at shotguns I tried on a couple of O/Us. I found the balance to be a little different than the Rem. 870 I ended up buying (or rather had bought for me...merry Christmas, Goalie), and I can see how the O/U would be quite conducive to trap/skeet. It seemed to be more "balanced" since it didn't have the magazine or the other parts. Goalie

December 24, 2002, 04:25 PM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	(The soft hiss of a fresh can of worms being opened)... People get all bent out of shape about the kind of shotgun, but no design has any major advantage over the others AS A DESIGN. Some SxS shotguns are superbly made and balanced, so are some O/Us. Compare a Grant and Piotti. Repeaters have more mass appeal, due to price and multiple shots. But, either a pump or auto can be tweaked into balancing perfectly. Same with fit, easier with the repeaters, shims and so on make getting the fit relatively easy compared to the major stock bending or restocking some doubles of either kind need to fit a mission and shooter. It all boils down to getting whatever you prefer, fit it to you, and then shoot it until it feels like a body part. It's not the piano, it's the pianist....

December 24, 2002, 04:45 PM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	The O/U SHOULD be more reliable than the pump or auto. Unless you are a dedicated shooter you will never know the difference. The top autoloaders on the market are VERY reliable. The O/U will last longer than a typical repeater, but are you really going to shoot in excess of 250,000 rounds through the gun to find the advantage? Balance of the top level autoloaders is on par with that of most sub $2000 O/U guns. The O/U gives you the choice of choke for the barrels, with a repeater you are stuck with what is in the barrel. With the O/U you can have a light and a tight choke to work any shot that may present itself while hunting or on targets with one close and one out further. With the single barrel you have to use the tightest choke you might need on the station or hunt. Not a big deal, but still a valid point. There is one HUGE advantage to the O/U for the target shooter, and ALL of us will find it shooting trap doubles, skeet and sporting. That is you do not have to police up hulls, and LOTS of clubs have a rule that if it hits the ground they own it keeping you from saving hulls. If you shoot more than just casually and are not independently wealthy you will end up reloading sooner or later. There is one HUGE advantage to the autoloader and that is lower felt recoil. With lower felt recoil you can shoot longer while practicing meaningfully. If you want to get better the lowered pounding will let you take more quality shots and you can improve quicker. Light loads help in the fixed breech guns, but they still hit harder on your end of the gun. I have several of both. I use the autos more these days, but still LOVE my O/U guns. If I am seriously going to try to hit them all or am shooting over a wager the O/U comes out simply because I have somewhere around 85-90K rounds through one in particular. It is as natural as my left arm, and I shoot it like it is. Otherwise the auto is the ticket, I shoot them pretty well and the lowered recoil is nice. Buy one of each, or pick the one you want today. Times and tastes change, if you get into shooting you will be buying a few more guns and working through them until you find "THE ONE". Dave speaks the absolute truth. The gun does not make the shooter, it is the loose nut on the stock that makes the difference. Shoot and shoot and shoot, that is how you will get good regardless of money spent on the gun.