45-70 Loads, Dies, Powder & ????????

Joey · August 21, 2002, 12:45 PM

I've gone and purchased a Marlin guide gun in 45-70 and have no clue about reloading the 45-70.

Now I've got a Dillon 550B for 45 colt (cowboy shooting) so while I've got the basics down I need to figgure out how to change my set up for relaoding the 45-70.

What brass, bullets & powder should I start out with?? While the guide gun has a short barrel I want the flatest shooting hardest hitting bullet I can turn out within reason.

My reloading books are 5 years old and I'm a looking for any updated info also.

MADISON · August 21, 2002, 01:31 PM

I no longer have a 45-70 but, it was a Ruger #3.
The dies were RCBS.
The load I used is no longer recommended:
300 grain Hornady JHP
20 grains of 2400
I was a comfortable load to shoot but, is reported to have blown up some guns.

cheygriz · August 21, 2002, 02:36 PM

You need .45-70 dies. The .45 Colt dies can probably cobble together something marginally useable, but they are not optimum.

For heavy loads in the Marlin, I use cast, gas checked 385 Gr wheelweight lead bullets, Hornady 350 RN and Remington 405 FN.

Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle primers, Winchester or Remington cases.

In my experience, the very best powder is Hodgdon H-322, followed by Hodgdon or IMR 3031 and 4895.

I can safely drive all three of these bullets to over 1800 FPS. However, I usually throttle back to about the 1700 FPS range with the jacketed bullets and 1600 with the cast. Still extremely powerful loads.

Be advised that these loads will just about rip your shoulder off. The felt recoil is in the same range as a heavier bolt action .458 Winchester Magnum. In other words, it kicks like hell!

rick_reno · August 21, 2002, 07:30 PM

I've got a Marlin guide gun - good choice. I shoot Laser Cast 405 gr. bullets, with 30 grs. of IMR 4198 my Oehler chrony said they were going about 1480 FPS. They are accurate and the nice thing is you won't want to shoot too many of them. That little gun has a nasty recoil, I only shoot it standing (try it from a bench and you'll understand why). I use RCBS dies and load them on a Rockchucker.
Give the folks at Lasercast a call, they'll send you some bullets to try and they're free.

sricciardelli · August 21, 2002, 11:07 PM

http://stevespages.com/table1.html

These loads are what I use in my Ruger #3...might be too much for your Marlin.

Northwest Cajun · August 22, 2002, 08:03 PM

I've developed a few loads for my guide gun.
55.8 gr Varget(VERY WARM!) WW brass 405 gr Rem FP 1620FPS
48.5gr Re#7 (VERY WARM!) WW brass 405gr Rem FP 1745fps
50.0 gr Re#7( VERY WARM!) WW brass 350 gr Hornady FP 1959fps
I use Lee dies to include the factory crimp die, I feel it helps.
These were all developed in MY guide gun, start low(-5Gr) and work up. To shoot this level of load you will definatly want to replace the recoil pad and put the "pre fit"Pachemeyer decelerator on it. After 2 or 3 you might get the flinches.
IMHO It is more comfortable to push 350's @ 2000 fps than 405's past 1800 fps
There are other powders you can use to go even faster, but WHY? The 45-70 was used to take out most of the Bison in the old west and they were using 400-500 gr bullets going less than 1100fps, So I dont see a need to push them any faster. I have reached the level where I can out-do the oregional loads but still hang onto the thing to shoot it accuretly.

I started on the net at these places;

www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/sandyhook.htm
http://membres.lycos.fr/shooter/divers/st705.htm
http://www.hodgdon.com/
http://www.realguns.com/archives/037.htm
http://www.wildwestguns.com/
http://www.realguns.com/archives/038.htm
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/cgi-bi...=30&LastLogin=

Cajun

**Mike Irwin** · August 22, 2002, 08:12 PM

With the return of a LOT of the old blackpowder rounds, I really wish someone would start manufacturing a bulk smokeless powder again.

Redneck2 · August 23, 2002, 04:41 PM

I have an 1895 Marlin. First thing I did was install a Decelerator recoil pad

Speer 405 FP, 50 gr of Varget. This is a mid-range load in the Hodgden pamphlet.

Why Varget?? Cause that's what I had. Supposed to push 'em at maybe 1700fps. Don't know if it's the load or the recoil pad, but I'm not real big and I'd shoot 50 in a row no problem.

Since this would probably take about anything that walks, I can't see going a lot heavier. I've passed the point in life where I feel the need to beat up the gun or myself.

Northwest Cajun · August 23, 2002, 07:21 PM

Redneck,
How do you like Varget in your Marlin?
I use it in my 45-70 because it's the only rifle powder I use for all my rifles. With my 55.8 gr load I get about 4-5 unburned powder kernerls still in the case, Do you notice the same thing?
How long is your barrel? With your load in the short guide gun I wouldn't expect more than 1400-1500fps but with one of the longer barrels mabe a hundred feet per second faster.

Cajun

NG Bruce · August 24, 2002, 07:12 AM

Miike Irwin - try some Accurate XMP-5744 - it is not a bulk smokeless, but it's marketing niche, according to Accurate, is "designed for use in Sharps rifle cartridges...shooters of cast bullets and reduced loads will find it useful in just about everything from the .22 Hornet to the .50-140 Sharps."

Joey, I have been using 27.0, 27.5, and 28.0 grains of Accurate XMP-5744 and a D&J 405 grain LFP bullet, over a CCI200 primer in either R-P or Starline cases in my Marlin M1895. The chronographed velocity was 1300, 1308, and 1323 respectively. The 28.0 grain load is the most accurate in my Marlin. This is not a fast load, but fun to shoot for ample practice, and still fast enough for deer in the swamps of Eastern NC.

As to dies, I started with a set of Hornady, but switched to Redding. Nothing wrong with the first set, but Redding is the only manufacturer of dies to use the older style profile - their die necks the top 5/8" of the case straight instead of the normal gentle taper - the Redding design gives a great grip on the bullet.

I don't have any real barn burners for you - when I want to shoot a .458 grain bullet fast I switch to my M70 African.

NG Bruce

Paul Fitz Jones · August 29, 2002, 01:18 PM

It is no problem having old reloading books for the OLD 45-70 cartridge. My 1988 Hornaday book states that a 350 grain bullet with up to 53 grains of 3031 will take any North American animal including bears and moose.

My experience with the Ca-Saeco 344 gr RN bullet is that it gave the best target accuracy with 48 grains and the bullet did not have the traditional "500 grain Recoil Flinch" or " 500 grain Sore Shoulder Syndrome" when used in a day of target or SASS competition.

The lighter bullet has been great for deer and does the greatest job on my ranch coyotes.

I have a new 4 cavity Saeco mold with handles I will not be using.

Redneck2 · August 31, 2002, 08:23 PM

Geez, I dunno about the real fps...no chrono

I just went with the mid-range. Barrel looked pretty clean. R-P cases and CCI LR primers IIRC. We expected the load to be pretty brutal, but it really wasn't. There's probably better powders, but for maybe 50 rounds a year, I'm not gonna invest in something special. I just tossed 20 rounds together and tried them out.

I'm thinkin' the Decelerator pad is the program. Barrel length..probably 20". Just a standard 1895.

Heck, if a 405 at maybe 1,300 could kill buffalo at 600 yards, one at 1,600-1,700 should do for anything I'm after. I can tell you that the 405's thump sumpthin pretty good.

I'm just a simple guy (ask my wife). I do what works and make it keep working. I think too many guys get caught up in the "my dog's bigger 'n your dog" thing and think that guns have to tear your shoulder off to be effective.

August 21, 2002, 12:45 PM	#1
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	45-70 Loads, Dies, Powder & ???????? I've gone and purchased a Marlin guide gun in 45-70 and have no clue about reloading the 45-70. Now I've got a Dillon 550B for 45 colt (cowboy shooting) so while I've got the basics down I need to figgure out how to change my set up for relaoding the 45-70. What brass, bullets & powder should I start out with?? While the guide gun has a short barrel I want the flatest shooting hardest hitting bullet I can turn out within reason. My reloading books are 5 years old and I'm a looking for any updated info also.

August 21, 2002, 01:31 PM	#2
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	45-70 Loads, Dies, Powder I no longer have a 45-70 but, it was a Ruger #3. The dies were RCBS. The load I used is no longer recommended: 300 grain Hornady JHP 20 grains of 2400 I was a comfortable load to shoot but, is reported to have blown up some guns.

August 21, 2002, 07:30 PM	#4
rick_reno Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 917	45-70 loads I've got a Marlin guide gun - good choice. I shoot Laser Cast 405 gr. bullets, with 30 grs. of IMR 4198 my Oehler chrony said they were going about 1480 FPS. They are accurate and the nice thing is you won't want to shoot too many of them. That little gun has a nasty recoil, I only shoot it standing (try it from a bench and you'll understand why). I use RCBS dies and load them on a Rockchucker. Give the folks at Lasercast a call, they'll send you some bullets to try and they're free.

August 21, 2002, 11:07 PM	#5
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	http://stevespages.com/table1.html These loads are what I use in my Ruger #3...might be too much for your Marlin. __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

August 22, 2002, 08:03 PM	#6
Northwest Cajun Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 1999 Location: Spanaway Wa. &Lafayette La,(Cajun Country) Posts: 189	I've developed a few loads for my guide gun. 55.8 gr Varget(VERY WARM!) WW brass 405 gr Rem FP 1620FPS 48.5gr Re#7 (VERY WARM!) WW brass 405gr Rem FP 1745fps 50.0 gr Re#7( VERY WARM!) WW brass 350 gr Hornady FP 1959fps I use Lee dies to include the factory crimp die, I feel it helps. These were all developed in MY guide gun, start low(-5Gr) and work up. To shoot this level of load you will definatly want to replace the recoil pad and put the "pre fit"Pachemeyer decelerator on it. After 2 or 3 you might get the flinches. IMHO It is more comfortable to push 350's @ 2000 fps than 405's past 1800 fps There are other powders you can use to go even faster, but WHY? The 45-70 was used to take out most of the Bison in the old west and they were using 400-500 gr bullets going less than 1100fps, So I dont see a need to push them any faster. I have reached the level where I can out-do the oregional loads but still hang onto the thing to shoot it accuretly. I started on the net at these places; www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/sandyhook.htm http://membres.lycos.fr/shooter/divers/st705.htm http://www.hodgdon.com/ http://www.realguns.com/archives/037.htm http://www.wildwestguns.com/ http://www.realguns.com/archives/038.htm http://www.marlinfirearms.com/cgi-bi...=30&LastLogin= Cajun __________________ Laizzes Les Bon Temps Rouler!

August 21, 2002, 02:36 PM	#3
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	You need .45-70 dies. The .45 Colt dies can probably cobble together something marginally useable, but they are not optimum. For heavy loads in the Marlin, I use cast, gas checked 385 Gr wheelweight lead bullets, Hornady 350 RN and Remington 405 FN. Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle primers, Winchester or Remington cases. In my experience, the very best powder is Hodgdon H-322, followed by Hodgdon or IMR 3031 and 4895. I can safely drive all three of these bullets to over 1800 FPS. However, I usually throttle back to about the 1700 FPS range with the jacketed bullets and 1600 with the cast. Still extremely powerful loads. Be advised that these loads will just about rip your shoulder off. The felt recoil is in the same range as a heavier bolt action .458 Winchester Magnum. In other words, it kicks like hell! __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

August 22, 2002, 08:12 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	With the return of a LOT of the old blackpowder rounds, I really wish someone would start manufacturing a bulk smokeless powder again. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 23, 2002, 04:41 PM	#8
Redneck2 Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2000 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 519	FWIW... I have an 1895 Marlin. First thing I did was install a Decelerator recoil pad Speer 405 FP, 50 gr of Varget. This is a mid-range load in the Hodgden pamphlet. Why Varget?? Cause that's what I had. Supposed to push 'em at maybe 1700fps. Don't know if it's the load or the recoil pad, but I'm not real big and I'd shoot 50 in a row no problem. Since this would probably take about anything that walks, I can't see going a lot heavier. I've passed the point in life where I feel the need to beat up the gun or myself.

August 23, 2002, 07:21 PM	#9
Northwest Cajun Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 1999 Location: Spanaway Wa. &Lafayette La,(Cajun Country) Posts: 189	Redneck, How do you like Varget in your Marlin? I use it in my 45-70 because it's the only rifle powder I use for all my rifles. With my 55.8 gr load I get about 4-5 unburned powder kernerls still in the case, Do you notice the same thing? How long is your barrel? With your load in the short guide gun I wouldn't expect more than 1400-1500fps but with one of the longer barrels mabe a hundred feet per second faster. Cajun __________________ Laizzes Les Bon Temps Rouler!

August 24, 2002, 07:12 AM	#10
NG Bruce Member Join Date: February 2, 2001 Location: Beaufort County NC Posts: 51	Miike Irwin - try some Accurate XMP-5744 - it is not a bulk smokeless, but it's marketing niche, according to Accurate, is "designed for use in Sharps rifle cartridges...shooters of cast bullets and reduced loads will find it useful in just about everything from the .22 Hornet to the .50-140 Sharps." Joey, I have been using 27.0, 27.5, and 28.0 grains of Accurate XMP-5744 and a D&J 405 grain LFP bullet, over a CCI200 primer in either R-P or Starline cases in my Marlin M1895. The chronographed velocity was 1300, 1308, and 1323 respectively. The 28.0 grain load is the most accurate in my Marlin. This is not a fast load, but fun to shoot for ample practice, and still fast enough for deer in the swamps of Eastern NC. As to dies, I started with a set of Hornady, but switched to Redding. Nothing wrong with the first set, but Redding is the only manufacturer of dies to use the older style profile - their die necks the top 5/8" of the case straight instead of the normal gentle taper - the Redding design gives a great grip on the bullet. I don't have any real barn burners for you - when I want to shoot a .458 grain bullet fast I switch to my M70 African. NG Bruce

August 29, 2002, 01:18 PM	#11
Paul Fitz Jones Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 266	Target and meat bullet accuracy It is no problem having old reloading books for the OLD 45-70 cartridge. My 1988 Hornaday book states that a 350 grain bullet with up to 53 grains of 3031 will take any North American animal including bears and moose. My experience with the Ca-Saeco 344 gr RN bullet is that it gave the best target accuracy with 48 grains and the bullet did not have the traditional "500 grain Recoil Flinch" or " 500 grain Sore Shoulder Syndrome" when used in a day of target or SASS competition. The lighter bullet has been great for deer and does the greatest job on my ranch coyotes. I have a new 4 cavity Saeco mold with handles I will not be using. __________________ Paul Fitz Jones Retired and Loving It Industry Manufacturer Competitor Police Firearms Instructor

August 31, 2002, 08:23 PM	#12
Redneck2 Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2000 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 519	Sorry for the long wait to reply... Geez, I dunno about the real fps...no chrono I just went with the mid-range. Barrel looked pretty clean. R-P cases and CCI LR primers IIRC. We expected the load to be pretty brutal, but it really wasn't. There's probably better powders, but for maybe 50 rounds a year, I'm not gonna invest in something special. I just tossed 20 rounds together and tried them out. I'm thinkin' the Decelerator pad is the program. Barrel length..probably 20". Just a standard 1895. Heck, if a 405 at maybe 1,300 could kill buffalo at 600 yards, one at 1,600-1,700 should do for anything I'm after. I can tell you that the 405's thump sumpthin pretty good. I'm just a simple guy (ask my wife). I do what works and make it keep working. I think too many guys get caught up in the "my dog's bigger 'n your dog" thing and think that guns have to tear your shoulder off to be effective.