A Real Incident, What Would You Do? - Page 3

MLeake · July 8, 2011, 01:40 PM

I had failed to note the "pillion riders" omkhan mentioned. I'm pretty sure he means passengers.

In Pakistan and Afghanistan, (and for that matter Mindanao,) it's very common practice for both armed robbers and assassins to use motorcycles. Driver pulls alongside, passenger shoots. It's something they warn everybody about during driver familiarization.

To have two motorcycles, with passengers, perform an obvious blocking maneuver would be a huge warning flag.

FrontSight · July 8, 2011, 01:48 PM

Reverse and floor it. At 15 mph cut sharp to do a 180. Put in drive & floor again. Give dad the piece. Tell wife to lie down and call 911. Be ready to fill them full of holes run & them over & over & over if they need it, without a single hesitation.

markj · July 8, 2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

To have two motorcycles, with passengers,

Would get run over. I have thought about this and Ifind trying to stop a car with a motorcycle to be a stupid move. After Iwas hit by a car at age 18 on a motorcycle I can tell you the car wins every time and the rider will be hurt. I had a broke arm and leg from the impact. So I would just floor it and drive thru them.

micromontenegro · July 8, 2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Reverse and floor it. At 15 mph cut sharp to do a 180. Put in drive & floor again. Give dad the piece. Tell wife to lie down and call 911.

Been there, done exactly that- except for no dad present, and calling 911 in Venezuela (I'm sure in Pakistan too) is totally out of question. We don't even have a real 911 here.

We were shot at, and thankfully the perps didn't hit us. Nor did they give chase. So it was a relatively happy ending, mainly due to good luck. But I think that if I had to go through such thing again, I would shoot first and not leave all the hard work to lady luck.

Edited to add a reality check for people who don't know how lucky they are: This happened within blocks of my home, and of a police station. We rushed there, and asked them to escort us home. We had to actually pay for them to do it. On the way home, we ran into the BGs, and the Police refused to do anything about them. That is police corruption for you!

MLeake · July 8, 2011, 05:52 PM

markj, that was my point earlier... I'd hit them with the car, and knock them off the bikes.

Backing away from them still affords the opportunity for them to shoot.

I'd prefer not to allow any fire to come my way. Call me crazy...

TXGunNut · July 8, 2011, 10:40 PM

It's unfortunate that young drivers are taught that no matter what, DON'T SCRATCH THE CAR!. Hogwash! I wrote a check for my newest one, will likely write one for the next one, no biggie. If it had a sticker price of over twice my annual salary it would still make an awesome weapon that I would never hestaite to use. I have some pretty powerful handguns but none will ever generate the energy of my most anemic car.
Get off the X, indeed. Get home safely, the rest is just paperwork...or not.

bikerbill · July 9, 2011, 01:01 PM

If you can't drive around, run them over ... getting into a shootout with four armed men under these circumstances is guaranteed to end badly for you and the family members in your car ... your vehicle packs a lot harder punch than any handgun you might have with you ... here, I'd drive far enough to make sure we were safe and then call 9-1-1, tell them what happened and ask for help ...

wayneinFL · July 9, 2011, 07:09 PM

Your friend did the right thing.

I agree that driving into the motorcycles or backing away from them is usually the best tactic. In most places in the US, this is what I would do. It is possible that the car would be disabled, but there are enough people around and the police are effective enough that the criminals would probably flee before you would be overrun. In a rural area, or in Pakistan, I'd be more inclined to do the same thing as your friend.

markj · July 11, 2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

markj, that was my point earlier... I'd hit them with the car, and knock them off the bikes.

Backing away from them still affords the opportunity for them to shoot.

I'd prefer not to allow any fire to come my way. Call me crazy...

OK hello crazy

yes backing up gives them time to shoot you sooo run em down and get away without harm.

threegun · July 11, 2011, 07:33 PM

Have dad put them under gun point as you try to escape the way you came. If they go for the guns start shooting.

I would up your fire power to at least include an AK-47 also plus another handgun. This way pops can man the AK while you and the pretty wife pop of handgun rounds while maneuvering.

threegun · July 11, 2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

OK hello crazy yes backing up gives them time to shoot you sooo run em down and get away without harm.
July 9, 2011 08:09 PM

Starting from a dead stop its difficult to run someone down. They simply side step and now you are point blank range away. Backing up at least puts life saving distance between you and the thugs. Combined with return or cover fire and retreat safest option IMO.

MLeake · July 11, 2011, 09:36 PM

threegun, you assume a stop in the first place.

Put me in Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Mindanao and have a couple motorcycles with passengers pull in front and start slowing, as the OP described, and I'd hit them at that point. There would be no stopping.

As mentioned, in those locations, assassinations and robberies by the method the OP describes are commonplace - the OP's friend didn't just happen to overtake bikes that were already going his way, the bikes maneuvered into blocking positions.

I'd have gunned it, and knocked the bikes over. Odds of disabling the car would be minimal; even if disabled, the bikers would not be in any shape to do anything after being knocked over at speed.

youngunz4life · July 12, 2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

threegun, you assume a stop in the first place.

Quote:

Put me in Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Mindanao and have a couple motorcycles with passengers pull in front and start slowing, as the OP described, and I'd hit them at that point. There would be no stopping.

but the only problem I have been having with this thread is this -

let's say motorcycle(s) pulls up beside you, you look at him, he looks at you: what do you do? How can we tell if he is a BG in that split second? I guess we could slowly hit brake...

MLeake · July 12, 2011, 05:31 AM

He didn't pull up along side; they pulled in front, and then started slowing.

If the bike had been passing, driver ideally should be checking first in the mirrors, to see if the passenger is making any furtive motions before the bike pulls alongside.

If a weapon were to come into view, then as the bike pulls up, a side-swipe would do the trick nicely.

I rode a bike for years, and am quite sure I would not want to have had to try to maintain control after a car had thumped me in any form.

omkhan · July 12, 2011, 06:55 AM

@MLeake,
Bikes are a common commodity in our place. There are more bikes on the roads than there are cars. Not really possible to keep a check when there is traffic on the roads. Robbers normally would not attempt such thing in the middle of a thoroughfare, they do it on traffic stops/ signals if they are really that desperate.
Assassination is another matter. There is a row of target killings going in Karachi for some while now. Its really hard to survive when you are the intended target and 2 guys on bikes open fire on you in the middle of the road no matter how busy was it.

The victim in this case however drew and fired only when he saw him reaching for the pistol. The cars available here are usually 1300cc Japenese cars (assembled here) and they are not very tough. A radiator leak was imminent in case of a head on. Moreover, The point by threegun

Quote:

Starting from a dead stop its difficult to run someone down. They simply side step and now you are point blank range away

is very very valid.

threegun · July 12, 2011, 07:37 AM

Mleake, Gotcha. My good friend was called up a few years back to Iraq. He was a heavy equipment rated driver. He was instructed to run over anything that got in its path. Even if it was "an infant baby" do not stop.

My thinking comes from a much more civilized society and is definitely not up to par for war torn third world arm pits.

So lets add to my post "if simply running them down isn't an option".

Personally having thought this out a bit more, I wouldn't go out alone period. Minimum 2 vehicles.

I can't imagine having to go through life worried about what the OP must.

July 8, 2011, 01:48 PM	#52
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	Reverse and floor it. At 15 mph cut sharp to do a 180. Put in drive & floor again. Give dad the piece. Tell wife to lie down and call 911. Be ready to fill them full of holes run & them over & over & over if they need it, without a single hesitation. __________________ To kill something as great as a duck just to smell the gunpowder is a crime against nature. - Alan Liere Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. - George Bernard Shaw

July 8, 2011, 10:40 PM	#56
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	It's unfortunate that young drivers are taught that no matter what, DON'T SCRATCH THE CAR!. Hogwash! I wrote a check for my newest one, will likely write one for the next one, no biggie. If it had a sticker price of over twice my annual salary it would still make an awesome weapon that I would never hestaite to use. I have some pretty powerful handguns but none will ever generate the energy of my most anemic car. Get off the X, indeed. Get home safely, the rest is just paperwork...or not. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

July 9, 2011, 01:01 PM	#57
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	If you can't drive around, run them over ... getting into a shootout with four armed men under these circumstances is guaranteed to end badly for you and the family members in your car ... your vehicle packs a lot harder punch than any handgun you might have with you ... here, I'd drive far enough to make sure we were safe and then call 9-1-1, tell them what happened and ask for help ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

July 8, 2011, 01:40 PM	#51
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I had failed to note the "pillion riders" omkhan mentioned. I'm pretty sure he means passengers. In Pakistan and Afghanistan, (and for that matter Mindanao,) it's very common practice for both armed robbers and assassins to use motorcycles. Driver pulls alongside, passenger shoots. It's something they warn everybody about during driver familiarization. To have two motorcycles, with passengers, perform an obvious blocking maneuver would be a huge warning flag.

July 8, 2011, 05:52 PM	#55
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	markj, that was my point earlier... I'd hit them with the car, and knock them off the bikes. Backing away from them still affords the opportunity for them to shoot. I'd prefer not to allow any fire to come my way. Call me crazy...

July 9, 2011, 07:09 PM	#58
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	Your friend did the right thing. I agree that driving into the motorcycles or backing away from them is usually the best tactic. In most places in the US, this is what I would do. It is possible that the car would be disabled, but there are enough people around and the police are effective enough that the criminals would probably flee before you would be overrun. In a rural area, or in Pakistan, I'd be more inclined to do the same thing as your friend.

July 11, 2011, 07:33 PM	#60
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Have dad put them under gun point as you try to escape the way you came. If they go for the guns start shooting. I would up your fire power to at least include an AK-47 also plus another handgun. This way pops can man the AK while you and the pretty wife pop of handgun rounds while maneuvering.

July 11, 2011, 09:36 PM	#62
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	threegun, you assume a stop in the first place. Put me in Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Mindanao and have a couple motorcycles with passengers pull in front and start slowing, as the OP described, and I'd hit them at that point. There would be no stopping. As mentioned, in those locations, assassinations and robberies by the method the OP describes are commonplace - the OP's friend didn't just happen to overtake bikes that were already going his way, the bikes maneuvered into blocking positions. I'd have gunned it, and knocked the bikes over. Odds of disabling the car would be minimal; even if disabled, the bikers would not be in any shape to do anything after being knocked over at speed.

July 12, 2011, 05:31 AM	#64
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	He didn't pull up along side; they pulled in front, and then started slowing. If the bike had been passing, driver ideally should be checking first in the mirrors, to see if the passenger is making any furtive motions before the bike pulls alongside. If a weapon were to come into view, then as the bike pulls up, a side-swipe would do the trick nicely. I rode a bike for years, and am quite sure I would not want to have had to try to maintain control after a car had thumped me in any form.

July 12, 2011, 07:37 AM	#66
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Mleake, Gotcha. My good friend was called up a few years back to Iraq. He was a heavy equipment rated driver. He was instructed to run over anything that got in its path. Even if it was "an infant baby" do not stop. My thinking comes from a much more civilized society and is definitely not up to par for war torn third world arm pits. So lets add to my post "if simply running them down isn't an option". Personally having thought this out a bit more, I wouldn't go out alone period. Minimum 2 vehicles. I can't imagine having to go through life worried about what the OP must.