Scenario, you are sleeping at night!

[Doublea A]

What if you are sleeping in the middle of the night and you hear what seem like your door being kicked in. So you get up and you hear "It's the police, we have a warrant and let me see your hands” My question is what do you do? Do you comply or engage?

You darn know for sure that you haven't done anything for a warrant to be issued on you. You have no idea whether they are truly cops or not. So what do you do?

Thanks

While this rarely occurs, it does happen. Perhaps think about it first before you view the link.
http://www.startribune.com/local/26083024.html

[jcsturgeon]

So is it multiple people, are there blue and red lights flashing through the windows? Then yes, I would comply.

It's quite possible that the police have the wrong house or that there was some kind of mistake, just because you "know" that they don't have a warrant for you doesn't mean they aren't legit officers. Resisting could lead to prison time or death.

The story is different if it's one person, that would make it less likely that it's a cop, if they're serving a warrant it's going to be either a SWAT team or multiple officers and it should be pretty obvious when they come "knocking"

[Davey]

I've always thought about what if someone or a small group of people try to break in by pretending to be cops.

How would I know?

[jcsturgeon]

Not to play Devil's advocate against myself but that's exactly what Shawna Forde did. Her band of scumbags pretended to be cops and murdered an immigrant family. That kind of thing is almost unheard of though. They odds of a bunch of crooks drawing a lot of attention to themselves and breaking into your house are so infinitesimally small, and the chances of the group being legitimate law enforcement so great that complying is the only sane option.

Engaging those targets would almost certainly end in your death anyway, and the best case scenario would be years in prison for assaulting an officer with a deadly weapon.

[won-a-glock]

Home invasions by burglars / kidnappers / and bad guys have used the 'police warrant' ruse numerous times in southern and central Arizona recently. It appears to usually be drug or kidnapping cartel related, but doesn't matter, some have been pure home invasions with a badge. Having recently moved to a more rural area, the police in this area are generally ineffective, and can't be counted on for support, and according to a couple of neighbors, can't be trusted. (and their range scores are worthless)

I'm confident there is *no* legitimate, nor legal reason for the police or others to break into my home, and don't accept the questionable legality of no-knocks. Never been in any kind of trouble, no sir. Knock and respectfully wait for an answer is a different matter. Any intruder(s) that come to my little cottage will need to be able to either outrun 10 rounds from an M82A1 x 3 mags, and Remington 870 w/ extended mag, or have better armor than an Abrams (while avoiding 2 dobermans (and a yappy little pic-a-poo).

No offense intended toward any LEO's out there, but this ain't Kansas anymore, and as a group, with all due and individual respect, are no longer trustworthy.

Post Script: JC makes a good point: You're better to be judged by 12 after winning a serious fire fight than taking a chance on being shot, dismembered or terrorized. Individual responsibility for your own safety has to make a comeback.

[mrgoodwrench76]

My dogs would have attacked before they got past "Its the Po............
I'm willing to bet they can keep em busy long enough for me to figure out who they are.

If not for the dogs..........I would probably let the wife check it out first .

[mrgoodwrench76]

No offense intended toward any LEO's out there, but this ain't Kansas anymore, and as a group, with all due and individual respect, are no longer trustworthy.

Pretty sure their still going to be offended.

[AK103K]

My dogs would have attacked before they got past "Its the Po............
I'm willing to bet they can keep em busy long enough for me to figure out who they are.

Mine too.

Ill also be up, dressed, and have the coffee made before they even get to kicking on the door. Not much gets by the hounds, and once they're up, everyones up.

[ZeSpectre]

There is no way this scenario will play out "good and happy" no matter what the decision.

[Shootin Chef]

Well, my response is a bit different.

Lock the bedroom door, rack the shotgun, dial 911 on speaker with the cell, and announce I'm armed and I need a name and badge number which hopefully I will verify with 911.
Can't verify? Can't get 911? Green-smoke grenade through the windowless space above the door (I'm in an older house) and I go out ready to fire if I don't see uniforms/blue lights/identifications, after putting the puppy dog in the closet first. He's to friendly and would get in the line of fire.

[m17s_guy]

Well, as an LEO, NO im not offended by the above comment. persons impersonating police officers have caused a lot of trouble in the past, that is why my area of georgia has told drivers to NOT pull over for a police officer while driving alone at night in a dark area, but to hit your hazards, dial 911 and proceed to the closest, well lit, populated area. now for the most part, police are not going to kick in your door and tell you they have a warrant.

these "no knock" warrants are so rarley issued after the shooting of the women in atlanta a couple years past (who btw shot 3 legit officers when they kicked the door in) after recieving a tip from a druggie they busted that he had bouthgt his gun and drugs at her house. she was killed and come to find out, there were no drugs or weapons other than the pistol the 80+ yo woman carried for protection in a bad neighborhood. anyways i babble... the no knock warrants are researched VERY extensively in my state now because of this problem, that there is very little chance that it will happen...

but like an above poster said, lock yourself in your bedroom, dial 911, inform the "police " that you are armed and on the phone with 911, and batten down the hatches. most likely even if it is an LEA coming to haul you away, they arent going to hit you with a resisting charge if you tell them you were scared of home invasion, as long as after you assure that its the real deal you comply 100% with the requests of the officers and stay calm and cooperative . and even if they hit you with a charge because of it, you have a good chance of beating the resisting/obstruction charge in court, as long as you can show a basis of home invasions or other burglary/kidnapping in your area you could fear....

[Dr. Strangelove]

As above, there's been enough mistakes made and law enforcement wounded/killed that one: it rarely happens, two: the homeowner isn't usually charged. I misremember the date/circumstance but a Florida resident shot up an entire FBI raid team, was wounded, and won substantial damages.

The advice to fort up and call 911 is the best, My name is: My address is: Are officers at my location?

[mrgoodwrench76]

The advice to fort up and call 911 is the best, My name is: My address is: Are officers at my location?

I cant see this solution being feesable. It seems to me, if they are kicking in your door, your not going to have time go get up, ready your weapon, call 911, put the dogs in the closet, and so on. Cmon, thats not realistic. I'm sure the warrant serving officers wont mind at all to 'time out' while you call and verify they are who they say they are.

There is no way this scenario will play out "good and happy" no matter what the decision.

Thats reality. These situations do exist and sometimes, reguardless of how prepared you 'think' you are, they will happen and probably wont turn out in your favor.

[Shootin Chef]

I cant see this solution being feesable. It seems to me, if they are kicking in your door, your not going to have time go get up, ready your weapon, call 911, put the dogs in the closet, and so on. Cmon, thats not realistic.

They're not exactly doing the 100 yard dash into your home, and the minute you shout that you're armed all progress through the house will come to a crawl.

Unless your bedroom is right next to the front door, or you're a slug when awoken, even on an adrenaline rush, you should have plenty of time.

[mrgoodwrench76]

and the minute you shout that you're armed all progress through the house will come to a crawl

I suspect otherwise. I would think this would bring them to their point faster and make you more likely to get shot. If they are to the point of serving a warrant in that manner, I doubt anything you say or do is going to deter them from accomplishing their goal.

Try this, have someone do just as the above scenerio described. See just how fast you can come to your senses and accomplish the actions described above. I think you would be suprised at the outcome. If nothing else, you get a little practice and become a little more prepared. No harm in that.

[Evan Thomas]

Originally Posted by Shootin Chef

Lock the bedroom door, rack the shotgun, dial 911 on speaker with the cell, and announce I'm armed and I need a name and badge number which hopefully I will verify with 911.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best response to any home invasion, by police or otherwise. It's a complete fantasy to think you're going to venture out of the bedroom -- or other "safe room," if you have one -- and singlehandedly take on multiple armed intruders with any likelihood of success.

Hole up, arm yourself, call 911 on the cell phone, and announce loudly that you're doing so. If you think it will take too long to do all this, you need to figure out how to do it faster.

[BlueTrain]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the possible solutions, but a dog is no problem for the police, even if they're in the wrong. The dog will be shot dead.

[mrgoodwrench76]

The dog will be shot dead.

True, but it would at very least slow them down, make a lot of noise, and possible immobolize 1 or more of them.

[AK103K]

The dog will be shot dead.

Theres a good chance that may be the case. Theres also a real good chance whoever it is thats going to do the shooting from that side, will be too, even before the dogs, especially if they cant show proof "real fast". Either way, if the door comes in forcably, its likely to be a mess.

Youre more likely to be there at the ready with dogs than you are with anything else. We have drive and perimiter alarms, and the dogs still usually "go off" before they ever do. They also sleep with us on the bed, so they dont even have to sound off. 250 pounds jumping up tends to wake you up.

[Daugherty16]

Can't see this happening to me - i'm pretty law abiding as a rule and haven't robbed any banks or done any serial killing for weeks now. Of course, there was that little medicare scam...lol

But more seriously, the possibility of a home invasion is (while small) everpresent. I live about 20 minutes from the Petit's home in CT. Home invaders have definitely been known to employ ruses before they rush the door as you blithely open it, why mightn't they impersonate officers serving a warrant? Awakening to such would, for most of us, be far more likely to be a nefarious plot than a real warrant service.

Still, what chance do you have with multiple armed BG storming your house as you wake up and try to shake out the cobwebs? And if they're real cops, especially if they're serving a legitimate warrant, they're likely to be pumped up and trigger happy. Barricade, barricade, barricade.

Beef up your bedroom doorframe and lag it deep into the studs, hang a solid wood or steel door with interior hinges, and install the best deadbolt you can afford. At least you'll have some time to sort things out before having to shoot anyone, and a barrier behind which you might not get shot right away. I still think that a dog, or multiple dogs, provide the best early-warning system available. Yeah maybe the BG or the cops would shoot them, but a moving dog in a dark house is a hard target, especially if he has you by the throat.

Oops, what about the kids? Unless you get that canine early warning system, they may be screwed.

[AK103K]

Im pretty amazed that anyone would be in the position in the first place. I know some arent animal people or maybe cant have them, but there are other alternatives.

I also think an alarm that goes off before they even get close to the door is important, and actually better than one on the door. Its at least a little more proactive, where the other is all reactive.

At least if you have warning and can be up, a quick call to 911 (if you have it) can at least confirm if its the cops or not, and maybe cut that headache (for both of you) off at the pass.

If not, well, here, unless a Trooper is right down the road, its about a 20-30+ minute response time when you call.

[aarondhgraham]

It was actually a joint thing between the Riverside County Sheriff Department,,,
And the Riverside Police department.

The problems were multi-fold,,,
The warrant was for a single address,,,
The property had 4 cabins, each with a separate address.
So essentially the warrant was invalid because it didn't specify which cabin.

This was a night bust and they decided to go in anyways,,,
They chose the incorrect cabin as their target.

There were no flashing lights,,,
They kicked in the door and entered the building,,,
I don't know for sure but I would bet they were yelling "Police".

The occupant thought he was being invaded,,,
He got his pistol from the night stand and fired a round into the floor,,,
The cops returned fire and hit him in his bed twice but there were over 100 rounds fired total.

The upshot of this was that the D.A. filed charges of attempted murder of a police officer on him,,,
They offered him a plea deal that was a felony but would have only entailed probation,,,
He got a good lawyer and several years later got a huge settlement.

This is a here-say account but a fairly accurate one,,,
The owner of the 4 cabins was the chief dispatcher for the U. C. Riverside Police Department,,,
He was my ex-wifes supervisor (she was a dispatcher) and a pretty close friend of mine at the time.

So it can happen,,,
What to do is anyone's guess.

Aarond

[Ben Towe]

This is the reason I have ceiling mounted remote control MGs at all entry points.

This is really kind of silly. If they are screaming "Police!", there are beaucoups of them, and they have on uniforms, its probably the Five-0.

One guy kicks in your door? Burn him down. Police operate in packs during raids. One cop isn't going to try to be Captain America and raid a house alone.

If they're packing AKs they probably aren't cops.

You have a better chance of hitting the Powerball than such a thing ever happening (either a wrong address by the law or robbers impersonating the police).

[Ben Towe]

Aaron, let me get this straight... The owner was the Chief Dispatcher and they didn't think to inquire of him which one the subject lived in? That is moronic beyond all belief.

[Pbearperry]

Before complying I would try to look out the windows to see if there were any Police Cars there if I had time.I would also try to shine a powerful light on the folks coming thru the door and hope I had a split second to make a choice of which way to go.