Up close and personal weapon: The Tomahawk? - Page 2

106RR · February 1, 2006, 05:15 AM

gordo b;
I went to a military reunion of the 196th Light Infantry Brigade and asked all of my brothers about hawks. In three bus loads of grunts none of us were issued, had one or even saw one. Most of us at the reunion were home (one way or the other) by the end of 68. I was there May 67 to May 68.
What year were they issued? We were in I Corps and were beyond most of the Army supply channels.

BELTFEEDISBEST · February 1, 2006, 02:35 PM

look up a guy named Master at Arms James Albert Keating. I have attended two of his knife fighting seminars. This man knows his business inside and out. He is associated with Comtec. Great guy too. You can purchase videos with him walking you through what you will need to know. OH, and hollywood is just that Hollywood. Seek out good instructors, train like you fight, and the more you sweet in training the less you bleed in combat. sorry for any misspellings.

Mark Milton · February 1, 2006, 02:47 PM

My uncle always says that if a weapon will kill somebody it's not really obsolete at all. I guess tomahawks, bowie knives and even short swords could come in handy for up close and personal defense.
I seem to recall something Jeff Cooper said about the original army .45 auto. He said it was designed to save your life by stopping somebody in a trench at arms length.
That would also apply to a good edged weapon, I figure....

625 · February 1, 2006, 03:18 PM

I would think a good tanto would work quite well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanto

pickpocket · February 2, 2006, 12:16 AM

A couple of my guys wanted to take about 10 American Tomahawks over to Iraq to scare the crap out of people with, Patriot-style. Would have been SWEET.
Never did it, though. Woulda coulda shoulda...

stephen426 · February 2, 2006, 01:29 AM

As crazy as it sounds, I would probably draw my knife against a gun in really close quarters. My first move would be to fake submission and put my hands up. The IF the opportunity presented itself, I would try a gun grab with my left and grab my knife with my right. It always rides on my waistband (unless I am on an airplane). I would then slice the attacker's wrist (the side that is holding the gun) and then slice the upper arm on the up stroke to try and sever the brachial artery (razor sharp Benchmade 710S with nasty serration pattern shouldbe great for this). The left hand would still be trying to control the attacker's weapon hand. If that is not enough to disarm (almost literally) or stop the attacker, your knife hand should be set up for neck slice (after the arm slice). I don't care what kind of adrenaline or drugs you have coursing through your veins. A deep slice to the neck will pretty much take the fight out of anyone... especially if you nail the carotid artery. I wouldn't make that last cut lightly since that could be viewed as excessive force and earn you a murder or at minimum man slaughter charge.

Most folders are designed for slicing rather than stabbing. If you nail a bone on a slice, the blade coud slip and you will end up with some nasty cuts (mixed in with your attacker
s blood.)

grndpndr · February 5, 2006, 03:48 PM

Being nonskilled w/edged weapons i believe I would be much more effective w/hatchet/tomahawk or better yet a 18in GI issue machete,or even a sharpened old fashioned wood handled E-tool.I wonder how effective the average skilled knife fighter would be against those types of 'edged weapons'

ClarkEMyers · February 5, 2006, 05:40 PM

My vote - fine for open carry for concealed I think I could do better.

No question that tomahawks and even war hammers have done the job. If I were a buckskinner type I might expect one to carry over as a serious weapon - the closest I've come myself is practicing with a McAvoy Bowie Ax at lumberjack days kind of targets.

Edged weapons will do it close quarters - I'm reminded of a witness statement that the guy went from a white T-shirt to looking like a Star Trek red shirt and just as dead instantly.

Considering the mention of mixed arms I might be part of a team these days but I wouldn't expect to be part of a formation and I think formation is where the Romans slaughtered people? - not dueling mano a mano. I'm not sure how well an ax man will survive against a shield wall that can attack his backside when the ax commits - he might open the shield wall as a sacrifice but not penetrate himself?

To an individual a good winged/bearded ax has a lot to offer but since Modesty Blaise I've thought the quarterstaff the most romantic of close quarter weapons.

gordo b. · February 5, 2006, 10:35 PM

106 RR:
I was in Nam 68-69(just in time for TET 68!) and returned for 70-71 and briefly (30 days in country ) in 1972. It was in 1970 in II corps in 'the highlands' that I got all kinds of good stuff from 5th Spec Forces people . I was flying into their Team bases in a 'Loach' and was smart enough to bring JohnyWalker for trade goods

They got all kinds of trick goodies to try out from companies looking for contracts.
One thing I got was a Swedish K, which I sold a few months latter to a crew chief in Da Nang who got in pretty famous trouble with it. The Tomahawks were, along with the folding "Attichson Hunter" cross knives just worthless items to give to the montgenards according to my best friend (to this day ) Capt. Worthy from the 5th.

February 1, 2006, 05:15 AM	#26
106RR Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2002 Posts: 234	Nam Hawks gordo b; I went to a military reunion of the 196th Light Infantry Brigade and asked all of my brothers about hawks. In three bus loads of grunts none of us were issued, had one or even saw one. Most of us at the reunion were home (one way or the other) by the end of 68. I was there May 67 to May 68. What year were they issued? We were in I Corps and were beyond most of the Army supply channels.

February 1, 2006, 02:35 PM	#27
BELTFEEDISBEST Junior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 11	hawk tape look up a guy named Master at Arms James Albert Keating. I have attended two of his knife fighting seminars. This man knows his business inside and out. He is associated with Comtec. Great guy too. You can purchase videos with him walking you through what you will need to know. OH, and hollywood is just that Hollywood. Seek out good instructors, train like you fight, and the more you sweet in training the less you bleed in combat. sorry for any misspellings.

February 1, 2006, 03:18 PM	#29
625 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 858	I would think a good tanto would work quite well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanto __________________ I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves. Ronald Reagan

February 2, 2006, 12:16 AM	#30
pickpocket Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 570	A couple of my guys wanted to take about 10 American Tomahawks over to Iraq to scare the crap out of people with, Patriot-style. Would have been SWEET. Never did it, though. Woulda coulda shoulda... __________________ Semper Fi- David Williams "Sabah al khair -- ismee Dave, ahnee al Shayṭān"

February 2, 2006, 01:29 AM	#31
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	As crazy as it sounds, I would probably draw my knife against a gun in really close quarters. My first move would be to fake submission and put my hands up. The IF the opportunity presented itself, I would try a gun grab with my left and grab my knife with my right. It always rides on my waistband (unless I am on an airplane). I would then slice the attacker's wrist (the side that is holding the gun) and then slice the upper arm on the up stroke to try and sever the brachial artery (razor sharp Benchmade 710S with nasty serration pattern shouldbe great for this). The left hand would still be trying to control the attacker's weapon hand. If that is not enough to disarm (almost literally) or stop the attacker, your knife hand should be set up for neck slice (after the arm slice). I don't care what kind of adrenaline or drugs you have coursing through your veins. A deep slice to the neck will pretty much take the fight out of anyone... especially if you nail the carotid artery. I wouldn't make that last cut lightly since that could be viewed as excessive force and earn you a murder or at minimum man slaughter charge. Most folders are designed for slicing rather than stabbing. If you nail a bone on a slice, the blade coud slip and you will end up with some nasty cuts (mixed in with your attacker s blood.) __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

February 1, 2006, 02:47 PM	#28
Mark Milton Junior member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 504	My uncle always says that if a weapon will kill somebody it's not really obsolete at all. I guess tomahawks, bowie knives and even short swords could come in handy for up close and personal defense. I seem to recall something Jeff Cooper said about the original army .45 auto. He said it was designed to save your life by stopping somebody in a trench at arms length. That would also apply to a good edged weapon, I figure....

February 5, 2006, 03:48 PM	#32
grndpndr Junior Member Join Date: February 5, 2006 Location: SW SD Posts: 13	Being nonskilled w/edged weapons i believe I would be much more effective w/hatchet/tomahawk or better yet a 18in GI issue machete,or even a sharpened old fashioned wood handled E-tool.I wonder how effective the average skilled knife fighter would be against those types of 'edged weapons'

February 5, 2006, 05:40 PM	#33
ClarkEMyers Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2004 Location: PacWest Posts: 455	My vote - fine for open carry for concealed I think I could do better. My vote - fine for open carry for concealed I think I could do better. No question that tomahawks and even war hammers have done the job. If I were a buckskinner type I might expect one to carry over as a serious weapon - the closest I've come myself is practicing with a McAvoy Bowie Ax at lumberjack days kind of targets. Edged weapons will do it close quarters - I'm reminded of a witness statement that the guy went from a white T-shirt to looking like a Star Trek red shirt and just as dead instantly. Considering the mention of mixed arms I might be part of a team these days but I wouldn't expect to be part of a formation and I think formation is where the Romans slaughtered people? - not dueling mano a mano. I'm not sure how well an ax man will survive against a shield wall that can attack his backside when the ax commits - he might open the shield wall as a sacrifice but not penetrate himself? To an individual a good winged/bearded ax has a lot to offer but since Modesty Blaise I've thought the quarterstaff the most romantic of close quarter weapons.

February 5, 2006, 10:35 PM	#34
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	106 RR: I was in Nam 68-69(just in time for TET 68!) and returned for 70-71 and briefly (30 days in country ) in 1972. It was in 1970 in II corps in 'the highlands' that I got all kinds of good stuff from 5th Spec Forces people . I was flying into their Team bases in a 'Loach' and was smart enough to bring JohnyWalker for trade goods They got all kinds of trick goodies to try out from companies looking for contracts. One thing I got was a Swedish K, which I sold a few months latter to a crew chief in Da Nang who got in pretty famous trouble with it. The Tomahawks were, along with the folding "Attichson Hunter" cross knives just worthless items to give to the montgenards according to my best friend (to this day ) Capt. Worthy from the 5th.

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