|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
August 28, 2008, 11:22 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: December 5, 2006
Posts: 28
|
Will military replace Beretta anytime soon?
I was wondering if the military is planning on replacing the M9 anytime soon for something in a bigger caliber? I heard at the range the other day DOD put out a call to gun makers and then retracted the call after all the major manufactures came up with their ideas. Hence, Smiths M&P, Springfields XD, Taurus's 24/7 and so on.
|
August 28, 2008, 11:56 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 2,136
|
Not likely, we already had a 45 ACP. They went with the 9mm weenie round. Mostly because of PC and NATO crap.
|
August 28, 2008, 11:59 PM | #3 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 9, 2008
Location: New England.
Posts: 403
|
Simple answer is No. Just last year the military ordered an additional 75,000 M9 pistols. Like the M16 they will be sticking with the M9 until something vastly superior comes along.
Quote:
__________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis. Excuse my spelling, for sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain. |
|
August 29, 2008, 12:33 AM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 16, 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 269
|
Quote:
A Glock! Now, I'll run and hide before the flack starts bursting! |
|
August 29, 2008, 12:56 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 9, 2008
Location: New England.
Posts: 403
|
Actually more like a plasma weapon. I am being serious too. Now about the Glock. You see the military won't adopt DOA pistol like the Glock, at least not as a main side arm. The military requirements are for a DA/SA pistol with a decocker.
__________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis. Excuse my spelling, for sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain. |
August 29, 2008, 01:25 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2007
Posts: 268
|
Few pistols are fired in combat anyway. If you have to resort to a pistol, you are already in a realy big world of hurt.
I'm kind of mad that the military hasn't really addressed the results of the last weapons test. It would seem the hk416 or some similar retrofit of the gas system would be a cheap fix, that would bring up the reliability and increase the confidence our service people have in the M-16, at least until the next space age battle rifle comes along. |
August 29, 2008, 03:28 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 29, 2000
Location: Richland, WA
Posts: 678
|
Quote:
|
|
August 29, 2008, 06:40 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 31, 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 193
|
Just read that the Army just signed a contract with Beretta to deliver 46000 Beretta M9A1 to the Army from 2008 thru 2010.
__________________
NRA Life Member: 45 years 1911 Shooter/Owner: 40 Years לפעמים אדם עונה גורלו על הכביש הוא לקח כדי למנוע אותו. (Sometimes a man can meet his destiny on the road he chooses to avoid it) |
August 30, 2008, 12:34 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,333
|
Quote:
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me. |
|
August 30, 2008, 12:52 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 31, 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 193
|
Shock trauma of course determines a lot about how fast a target is taken down, but with specialty loads for 9mm you can get same performances or better. In Israel, and now, when I carry a 9mm CCW, it's always with GECO BAT, the only difference now is that I don't use military grade BAT rounds. BAT's give you the wound performance of a .45 in a smaller package and is totally frangible with no soft tissue over penetration.
That said, 98% of the time my ccw is the Safari Arms Matchmaster 1911A1 sts, 1% Glock 17/Kareen HP, 1% FN Five-Seven.
__________________
NRA Life Member: 45 years 1911 Shooter/Owner: 40 Years לפעמים אדם עונה גורלו על הכביש הוא לקח כדי למנוע אותו. (Sometimes a man can meet his destiny on the road he chooses to avoid it) |
August 30, 2008, 12:56 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Posts: 257
|
No.
__________________
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it." Stephen Vizinczey |
August 30, 2008, 11:58 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 8, 2004
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,457
|
The Army ordered 70,000 M9s in 2006. The Army is not expanding enough for all of them to be for new units, so some are being used to replace M9s currently in service. Also in 2006, the Marines ordered 7,500 M9A1s. At the same time, they decreed that most officers and senior NCOs would be packing M4s instead of M9s, so those are most likely being used to replace M9s currently in service.
Now if you just dropped a ton of money to replace your issue pistols, why would you change? I fully expect to be issued an M9 until the day I retire.
__________________
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” - Samuel Adams |
August 31, 2008, 11:54 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 31, 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 193
|
US Army Buys Beretta M9 Pistols
| Jan 21, 2008 ACCOKEEK, Md: Beretta has just announced that it has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Army to deliver M9 pistols to servicemen and women as part of the U.S. Government commitment to ensure the operational safety and readiness of U.S. Armed Services worldwide. The contract is for 25,403 M9 pistols with deliveries starting in June 2008 and continuing until February 2010. The U.S. Army also reserves the right to purchase additional M9 pistols as needed to meet their needs. All of these M9 pistols will continue to be manufactured at the Beretta U.S.A. facility located in Accokeek, Maryland. "Beretta is always honored to assist the U.S. Armed Forces in defending our country," stated Jeff Reh, Vice-General Manager for Beretta U.S.A. Corp. "The Beretta M9 pistol remains the most reliable and well-tested handgun in the U.S. military inventory, with tests resulting in an average of only one malfunction every 20,500 rounds fired. U.S. Government witnessed testing at our factory has confirmed this remarkable reliability." Mr. Reh added that, "Beretta U.S.A. Corp. has supplied the Beretta M9 pistol as the standard sidearm for the U.S. Armed Forces since 1985 and continues to make investments in manufacturing capability, R&D and product development to serve the needs of the U.S. Military and Homeland Defense community." "We are proud to be able to provide the U.S. Armed Forces with a reliable, robust sidearm that will perform when needed to defend the lives of our servicemen and women", said Elio J. Oliva, Vice-President of Sales and Marketing for Law Enforcement and DoD at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. "We understand that the M9 is not a primary weapon system and that it is often used a weapon of last resort, in close quarters and under demanding conditions. When U.S. servicemen deploy their M9 in theater it needs to work. All 350 employees at Beretta U.S.A. understand the importance of this mission and remain committed to delivering the highest quality products to our Military", said Mr. Oliva. "Each of our M9 pistols is test fired with proof rounds and tested for accuracy at 50 meters", said Gabriele de Plano, Vice-President of Product Development at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. "We have continued to invest significant resources to improve the quality and already impressive performance and reliability of the M9 through the years. We have also developed new accessories such as high-lubricity sand-resistant magazines to deliver improved performance in the unique environmental conditions of the Afghan and Iraqi theaters", added Mr. de Plano. Each Beretta M9 pistol ships with 15-round standard magazines and is designed to accept 20-round magazines. In 2005, Beretta U.S.A. Corp. received 13 contracts for M9 pistols and component parts from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps. Many of the U.S. Army purchases were multi-year contracts lasting five years, from which over $31 million dollars in purchase orders have since been issued to Beretta U.S.A. Corp. In addition to the M9, Beretta U.S.A. has developed the M9A1 pistol which incorporates various enhancements such as integrated Picatinny rail, enhanced grip checkering and magazine well modifications to allow for quicker tactical reloads. To date Beretta U.S.A. has supplied over 4,000 M9A1 pistols to the United States Marine Corps.
__________________
NRA Life Member: 45 years 1911 Shooter/Owner: 40 Years לפעמים אדם עונה גורלו על הכביש הוא לקח כדי למנוע אותו. (Sometimes a man can meet his destiny on the road he chooses to avoid it) |
August 31, 2008, 12:47 PM | #14 | |
Member
Join Date: July 27, 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 41
|
Quote:
|
|
August 31, 2008, 12:53 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,333
|
Quote:
From what I understand, the government didn't want to invest in training and saw the M9 as a way to use equipment to make up for poor training. Of course they went and bought those low-bid M9 magazines that don't work and gave to the people in Iraq and Afghanistan. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me. |
|
August 31, 2008, 01:15 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 25, 2008
Posts: 3,004
|
my service weapon is a sig p229dak withn .40s&w hollowpoints, but thats because uscg is homeland security, not dod.
the military seems reluctant to upgrade, or even go back to 1911s and m14s. 9mm ball ammo is stupid, so is 22 caliber rifles. pc and nato crap stands in the way of a decades needed replacement rifle, hk416 or xm8 can replace m16 and keep the caliber, scar h would be a heavy hitter, and theres probably so many 1911s around that beretta replacement wouldnt take long.
__________________
Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies. |
August 31, 2008, 02:32 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 31, 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 193
|
Ammo standardization with NATO countries, and the fact that many incoming recruits were having problems controlling the 1911.
Personally, IMHO, I'm old school, served in the Navy as a Corpsman with the 2nd MarDiv circa Beirut 1983, I think it's a tragedy to downgrade especially since the only ammo authorized for use is ball and subsonic ball, and, with the increasing use of body armor on the battlefield, I think it was a decision based on lunacy and I'm glad I finished by service before the 1911 was replaced. LOL, but then again, after my US Military service, I reported for my compulsory 3 years with the IDF and ended up carrying a Kareen HP. LOL, ironies of all ironies.
__________________
NRA Life Member: 45 years 1911 Shooter/Owner: 40 Years לפעמים אדם עונה גורלו על הכביש הוא לקח כדי למנוע אותו. (Sometimes a man can meet his destiny on the road he chooses to avoid it) |
August 31, 2008, 02:33 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2007
Posts: 268
|
What they should do is not follow the Hague convetions and just use hollowpoints. We never signed or agreed to the treaty anyway.
What is more cruel, having a round stop in the intended target, or having a round known for overpenetration (9mm ball) and potentially injure other people? |
August 31, 2008, 02:43 PM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,333
|
Quote:
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me. |
|
August 31, 2008, 03:05 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,518
|
The government did ask for .45 options, and then shelved it. Notice how only the .45 versions of the XD and M&P are available with manual safeties? Those guns were developed for the expected government selection process.
|
August 31, 2008, 03:46 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 1,090
|
Why replace it?
It's a damn fine weapon and well proven.
|
August 31, 2008, 07:50 PM | #22 | |
Member
Join Date: July 27, 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 41
|
Quote:
|
|
August 31, 2008, 08:57 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 25, 2008
Posts: 3,004
|
why not switch to beretta 96, .40 ball ammo would still suck but not as much as 9mm ball.
__________________
Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies. |
September 1, 2008, 01:26 AM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, The Bay State
Posts: 432
|
Quote:
__________________
-Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. Ferris Bueller, from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. |
|
September 1, 2008, 09:36 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 25, 2008
Posts: 3,004
|
why would they be replacing mp5s, we can use multiple calibers, and p226/229 arent really used much and are much better in .40 anyway, and nato should switch back to 7.62x51 and .45 acp
__________________
Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies. |
|
|