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January 16, 2014, 12:16 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: January 10, 2014
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Lee Classic Turret Die / Ram Alignment
Greetings! I'm well on my way to turning out my first 9mm rounds. Over the last few days, I've been experimenting with case mouth flare, bullet seating, and the factory crimp die, but a basic issue I thought I'd solved early on has stopped my progress--die to ram alignment. When I first set up my Lee CT, I noticed that cases would enter the decapping die off center and, more often than not, the pin would impact the bottom of the case near the flash hole. I re-leveled my bench, adjusted the turret as per instructions, checked everything a few times, and finally wound up loosening the bolts at the top of the three support columns in order to adjust the turret frame to put the die and ram in better alignment. Once I achieved spot on alignment and knew it could be done, I removed the bolts, added a drop of blue thread lock to each one, and locked in the adjustment. The next day, after the loctite cured--I decapped 1500 mixed 9mm cases without a single alignment-related hitch--the pin entered the flash hole every time. Alignment seemed excellent during sizing as well, but now that I'm almost ready to start completing rounds, something's gone terribly wrong--the alignment is off worse than when I started. I'm using two turrets, and they both show the same alignment problem. Cases now enter the decapping die at an angle, and the pin misses the flash hole every time. This isn't an indexing issue, either--I removed the index rod after the initial alignment issue was solved, and I've been using the press in single stage mode only. The press hasn't seen any trauma, just normal use. Any idea what the source of this misalignment could be? The bolts have not loosened, so the turret frame is in the same position I established for best alignment. I'm stumped, and thinking of getting a single stage sooner than I planned. Appreciate any advice!
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January 16, 2014, 12:27 PM | #2 |
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I don't have a solution for you, as I've never heard of an alignment issue with the LCT that didn't involve the indexing rod.
My first impression is that the original alignment issue was the rod (as it always is in every case I've ever heard of) and you've made it worse rather than better by moving the whole top of the press. Why it worked in between, I don't know. Put the top back where it was, is my guess.
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January 16, 2014, 12:43 PM | #3 |
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Yeah, maybe that's it. What's really got me scratching my head is why the change occurred when my use case didn't change--I've never even used the indexing rod, just made sure it could be adjusted to put everything in alignment if I wanted to use auto-index, then removed it to focus on learning each step. Since the turret seems to lock in place once it's at the proper position (die above ram), and there's virtually no play in that position, I'm not sure how slight changes to the index rod threading amount could impact alignment--either it's in position or it's not.
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January 16, 2014, 12:45 PM | #4 |
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Welcome to the forums. I’m with Brian on this one, your problem doesn’t seem quite right. Let’s explore your symptoms with some questions.
Are you referring to a 9mm sizing die as the decapping die or are you actually using a universal decapping die (w/o sizing)? If it is a 9mm sizing die, there really doesn’t seem to be a way for the pin to miss the flash hole unless it is bent, as the die engages the case which in turn should guide the pin to the center. Did you end up with any type of crud in the case holder groove? Brush it with hoppes or other cleaner. Typical canting of cases caused by this results in case mouths hitting a sizing die long before the pin would miss the flash hole (unless you are using a universal decaper). Is the case holder retaining clip/spring in place and correctly oriented? Does your case holder slide easily into the ram with bottom fit flat and flush with the top of the ram? Did your disassembly result in misplacement or rearrangement of any washers on top or bottom of the posts? Hint, suspect the one closest to the handle as it comes with additional parts for the on press priming option. If possible post some pictures of your dies and press. |
January 16, 2014, 12:48 PM | #5 |
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I would contact Lee Precision customer service (262) 673-3075 and see what they can offer you. I'm over 10,000 rounds with my LCT over the past three years and completely satisfied with it.
joe |
January 16, 2014, 01:08 PM | #6 |
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I use the Lee 4 hole and am also a little stumped by your problem. I'm sure you probably have the instruction sheet that came with yours in regards to the alignment but if not, let me know and I can send you a PDF file of mine.
Mine was "right on" out of the box and is functioning perfect - I'm loading 9mm and 38 spl. Not having had any problems, I really haven't had to do any trouble shooting but I do know there is a square plastic washer that can get damaged and needs to be replaced in order to index correctly - any chance that is damaged? I deprime on a single stage with a universal Lee depraver. I size on the turret. I do know that when I'm reloading a cartridge, say going from the sizer to the expander/powder though die (I hand cap with a Lee hand capper) that I sometimes have a little misalignment but it is due to me either not getting the cartridge all the wear into the holder and also not doing a complete cycle with the lever - i.e. all the way down. But, that doesn't sound like your problem. Kinda hard to be a "arm chair quarterback" but I hope you'll call Lee as they can help you out - and then let us know what the problem was so we all can learn from your experience. I love my Lee turret and I'd have no problem getting another one. I'm just loading handgun and have no experience with it in regards to rifle rounds.
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January 16, 2014, 04:38 PM | #7 |
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I was having a similar problem but not quite as severe as yours . I checked the alignment and as far as I could tell it was right on. When I called Lee the tech told me to lube the turret by putting a little oil on the turret and inside the ring where the turret turns, and to clean and re-lube it every so often. Now I have no trouble with it. Also make sure the indexing ball is clean and lubed as well.
This may not be what your press needs but then again................ |
January 17, 2014, 10:42 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
The above quoted statement has me confused. I'm looking at my LCT as I type this and it is not obvious to me that there is any way to adjust the turret using the three support column bolts. I have not come across any threads where this has been discussed either. (Not that I've read every single LCT thread of course...) Are there any FAQs on the Lee website that address this adjustability capability? Also just to make sure: I understand you to be saying that this is NOT an issue with the turret stopping in an incorrect position but rather that the turret head (or the die) is CANTED somehow? Perhaps there is a machining error in either the turret or the die? Perhaps you could try moving each die one position and see if the problem follows the die or if a problem shows up with the die that is now in the position where the decapping die was? Last edited by ddc; January 17, 2014 at 11:01 AM. |
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January 17, 2014, 11:37 AM | #9 |
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ddc - I think you've raised some good points. I'm in AZ right now and my press is in MI but as the OP states, the cases are entering at an angle. I worked before but doesn't now.
As you said, it almost seems like something has to be "canted" but for the life of me, I can't see how. If there was a "canting" issue - it shouldn't have worked before . . so what happened? I have two turret plates for mine - one set up for 38 spl and one for 9mm. In switching them out, there really is only one way to get them in place - i.e. I don't see how they could be installed and not be flat and still function. The three posts should be the same length - which should be obvious and easily checked with a ruler. The top of the ram should be machined properly or the shell holder would not fit and I see no way that a shell holder could be installed and not be flat. If the turret plate holes were machined wrong, that would be evident when installing the dies and the OP stated that he had used it but the decamping pin was off some - which to me, sounds like a turret alignment adjustment was needed? The OP said he readjusted the bench so it was level - which really should not affect the function of the press as with the way the press is built - that has no effect on ram alignment and squareness with the turret head. I have no doubt that he is having problems - it just baffles me as to what it could be. It may very well be that it's a press that slipped by QC that shouldn't have - whatever is going on, Lee will make it right. Perhaps the OP could post a few photos of the press with a side view showing the dies and turret plate installed, etc.? danielj - don't give up on the press as you'll get it figured out. I'd hate to see you get so frustrated with it that you give up on it as it really is a great press for what you are loading. As another thought also, check your dies to make sure that they are machined as they should be - is the decamping pin centered in the sizing die? Any possibility it is bent or that the sizing hole is somehow bored at an angle which would make the case "can't" on entry and is the carbide insert straight?
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If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63 |
January 17, 2014, 05:38 PM | #10 |
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Did you try it with the shellholder opening turned to the right or left.Some of old three hole presses didn't have the ball exactly where it should have been.Mine was one. I used it for years by putting them in from the side.When I updated the press to a four hole everything lined up fine.If it works by putting the brass in from the side call Lee and try to get another turret head.The only thing I don't know if it is that how you got it lined up.
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January 17, 2014, 07:11 PM | #11 |
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I deprime on a single stage with a universal Lee depraver.
Does this mean that every case which comes out is thoroughly bad and evil? |
January 18, 2014, 03:55 PM | #12 |
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Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. A couple answers to the comments received:
I'm using the press in single stage mode, so index rod adjustment isn't a factor. I rotate the turret by hand and ensure it locks into place properly. I read about loosening the bolts on top of the columns at: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-583329.html I don't think this is a cant issue--everything seems to be in the same horizontal plane. I removed all dies from all turrets and tried the universal decapping die in each turret hole in both turrets. I found slight variation--visible to my eye--in the way the decapper pin aligned with the hole in the shell plate. Sometimes it was off center left, sometimes right, and sometimes it was centered. Since there are differences in how each die aligns with the ram in each turret hole, what an earlier poster says makes sense: I probably had the decapper in the worst possible turret hole, and when I adjusted the turret mount to bring that die/turret hole into perfect alignment, it magnified errors in all the others. I'd been swapping dies out, so the decapper probably wound up in a different hole that was de-optimized by my previous adjustment. I loosened up the bolts again, ran a case into the sizing die to center things, and then tightened all the bolts. I still experience case tilt in some dies (expander, fcd), but at least all the dies are working. Now, if I can just figure that fcd out, I'll be done! Lesson learned: sometimes making one part of a complex machine function perfectly makes another part perfectly unfunctional--shoot for the middle path. Thanks again. |
January 18, 2014, 06:24 PM | #13 |
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I read the linked thread on thehighroad and that thread linked back to another thefiringline thread which I read also.
I’m surprised that there is apparently so much play available in the system at the point the three column bolts attach. Since mine is working fine I am reluctant to loosen things up just to find out if it is true, I think I’ll just let that sleeping dog lie… It sounds like you’ve got things to the point where you can proceed but it also sounds like you have a press that may be on the verge of being out of tolerance in some way. If you are at all unhappy I would hope that if things are that sketchy that Lee would work with you to find a solution. Were you planning on talking to them at some point? |
January 19, 2014, 11:05 AM | #14 |
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DDC,
I will contact Lee if the alignment drifts to the point that cases no longer enter the dies again. I won't be satisfied with having to finger push each case--or even most cases--into alignment with the die. Until then, I'll continue to move along the process until I complete some ammo and see how it shoots--I'm almost there, but the Lee FCD is giving me some issues. Or, maybe it's working OK and I have issues... Thanks again, all, for your advice. DJ |
January 19, 2014, 11:55 AM | #15 |
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pathdoc . . . LOL . . . I should have gone back and proofread before posting!
I'm using an Apple and am not that computer savvy . . . I HATE it when I type something and the stupid computer changes the word to something they think is more appropriate! I will admit though that sometimes when I sit down with a large quantity of spent casings to de-prime, by the time I'm done, I do feel a little "depraved"! :roll eyes: Thanks for the chuckle . . . what do they say? "If we can't laugh at ourselves . . "
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If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63 |
January 19, 2014, 12:37 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
Edit: I just noticed your new thread on this issue. We can move this discussion over there; don't bother responding here. |
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