KSG issues hopefully resolved

dajerseyrat · April 26, 2012, 11:34 PM

Some of you who read and commented on my previous thread with the Keltec KGS shotgun might be interested to hear this. Here is the original thread where I vented my frustrations:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...50#post5043750

This is the email I just received and apparently they did find a few issues with the gun that were hopefully resolved. Unfortunately I will not get the weapon back till after May 3rd due to me leaving the country in the morning for vacation. :thumbsup:
Reading what repairs they did, it makes perfect sense to me with the issues i was having.Hopefully it will shoot very good for me in the future and I will be able to post a positive review of the weapon...

I have personally reviewed your weapon and have done the following reviews / repairs:

· Replaced Barrel Assembly / Honed Barrel and Chamber: There was nothing “wrong” with the other barrel except I saw some cosmetic issues with the Picatinny and Barrel… the dimensions were good though with the barrel. That and if you were having extraction issues, I wanted to keep that system here to review in case we receive any more in the future… just in case.
· Reviewed Bolt: Bolt was good. Polished Bolt Lock as it was on the high tolerance and tight on the inside of the Bolt as the Bolt Lock cams down unlocking the system. This was most likely the issue with the weapon not extracting consistently.
· Grip: Good. No issues.
· Rear Stock: Good. No issues.
· Receiver: Completely rebuilt Receiver. It still has the same serial number and is the same Receiver, but it was rebuilt to ensure it was done correctly. The Receiver was sandblasted and re-parkerized to give it a new look again. New magazine springs / magazine plugs / followers, to ensure the rounds are seating properly—nothing wrong with the old ones, but I’m not going to re-use the old ones here. New Cartridge Stops / Selector / Selector Catch. The issue on Double Feeding also came from the inner cartridge stops (KSG-314 and KSG-315) were sanded to the lower tolerance, so there would be times when they did not work… I saw that too on testing. Those were replaced and the weapon does not Double Feed any more. No issues on anything else there. I did polish the swage / feed ramp area and this is smoother here on loading.
· Re-proofed. New assembly as stated above. Weapon was re-proofed.
· Test fired and Function Tested. I shot 200+ rounds through the weapon and two of our technician each shot 100+ rounds through the weapon. The weapon did not double feed and it extracted every round, including the “more challenging Centurion rounds” from Italy.

Technosavant · April 27, 2012, 03:12 PM

Glad to hear it... it sounds like they're figuring out where the issues have been and they sure took care of making sure the gun was good to go.

On another note, I wasn't aware the Centurion shells were on the edge of reliability- I had used some and loved them... haven't seen any in months, so I figured they were gone for now.

Rampant_Colt · April 27, 2012, 03:27 PM

I can learn two things from this thread:

1.) it's not always the best idea to be the first kid on the block with the cool new toy

2.) stick to self-defense ammunition from manufacturers with a proven, reputable track record (Federal Tactical, W-W Ranger, etc..) Buck n ball, Dragon's Breath, Duplex, etc, is overpriced novelty ammo for mall ninjas

Hope everything works out for the best, dajerseyrat. It seems like K-T took really good care of you.

oneounceload · April 27, 2012, 03:28 PM

Make sure, if it works, to go recant on all of the many forums you posted on

Microgunner · April 27, 2012, 03:34 PM

Man! What a nice report Kel-Tec provided.
I hope your KSG functions properly when you get it back.

johnwilliamson062 · April 28, 2012, 03:47 AM

Like that report they provided.

I have heard from many sources their production facility is running oof the hooks right now b/c of demand(not just for KSG), and it is goo to hear they still took some time on your gun.

zippy13 · April 28, 2012, 04:43 PM

Glad to hear of the exceptional factory service. From your initial review, I suspect some potential owners were anxious to hear the results. Now, go out and make a big pile of hulls.

TheKlawMan · April 30, 2012, 05:11 PM

I don't know if there is a lot for which the OP needs to recant.

Kudos to Kel-Tech for apparently going through and fixing the gun, but why was it shipped with a double feeding issue in the first place? Comparing the OP's original post and the response from KT, it also seems that his gun was sold with exraction issues.

zippy13 · April 30, 2012, 05:40 PM

KlawMan, my friend, I don't know if I'm being overly pessimistic, but does there seems to be a trend to let the consumer replace in house QC these days?

Technosavant · April 30, 2012, 07:40 PM

Zippy, I think you're right.

Chances are that very few guns will be shipped with problems, quality control or not. By eliminating the more stringent QC steps, they save $, and they just deal with it on the back end when the customer finds the problem.

TheKlawMan · May 1, 2012, 12:37 AM

The fact is that we have gotten to the point where we expect substandard products and less than craftsman like service.

Stevie-Ray · May 2, 2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

· Test fired and Function Tested. I shot 200+ rounds through the weapon and two of our technician each shot 100+ rounds through the weapon. The weapon did not double feed and it extracted every round, including the “more challenging Centurion rounds” from Italy.

They should send a check along with it, since they are now giving you back a used gun.

J/K, it's good to see KT is giving you a detailed report. The only time I sent a gun back, (another company) I was simply told it was fixed. It wasn't.

dajerseyrat · May 5, 2012, 08:40 AM

I took the gun to the range last night and ran about 100 rounds through it and it did not jam once, so it looks as if the issues are resolved for now. I did immediately the gun was much easier to load and the magazine selector switch was easier to select from side to side, before the repairs it felt like it had to be forced to the point it would break. The action seemed smoother also. I put my sight back on and dialed it in at 15 yards, and will say this much for the gun, it is DEADLY ACCURATE for a short shotgun. With 00 buck I was able to put a hole dead center of the target and was able to then put every other round of 00 buck through the same hole at 15 yards.

Another good thing was that one of my range masters who was there the very same day I first fired the gun and had malfunctions, was there last night and he got to shoot the gun also and said it was night and day from when he first fired it. I will say that I am now happy with my KSG's performance wise so far, time will tell on the durability of the weapon.

Joe_Pike · May 5, 2012, 10:14 AM

Now, they need to fix the issue of "availability" so I can buy one at list price instead of the $1,500 and $2,000 the shops around around here are getting for them.

dajerseyrat · May 18, 2012, 04:13 PM

I put a magpull angle grip on it, and am waiting on a muzzle break for it. I was contemplating selling this gun to buy an AR, but screw it, Im gonna keep it and but the AR also.Shhhhhhh dont tell my wife...Also Ryan from Keltec is sending me a newly designed stronger fore end to try out on the gun as well as the special lug used to take off the nut at the end of the muzzle to put the muzzle break on =-) I will say this, now that the gun works right, i am in love with it all over again!!

And here is my shoulder after 50 rounds of 00 buck =-)

Dave McC · May 19, 2012, 01:41 PM

Ouch!!

Glad the gun's working.....

dajerseyrat · May 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

Keltec just sent me a newly designed front stock to test out. They added structural supports to it to give is some more strength for the use of vertical for grips. I will be testing it soon and report back...

Original

new one

side by side comparison

knowyourlimit · May 24, 2012, 12:44 AM

Dajerseyrat,

Version 1.0 usually means "uh-oh." Being one of the first to get one is not always a good way to go. It's a shame the user today is performing both the R&D and QA to test a manufacturer's product that was much awaited after its unveiling almost two years ago. That stuff should have been done before it went out the door. We've come to accept mediocre products these days.

PS - It's shame you got banned over on KTOG's forum with your complaints. You should have at least been able to provide them an update on your KSG's back-in-the-saddle status. We were fortunate enough to have read it here and on the Hi-Point forum. Thanks

knowyourlimit · May 30, 2012, 08:23 AM

These go for a princely sum on the used-market -

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=286377642

zippy13 · May 30, 2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

These go for a princely sum on the used-market

The way I read your link, none of the bidders would come up to the seller's reserve. Asking and getting are two different things, this gun didn't "go" -- a used gun is worth what someone will pay for it, not what the seller asks.

oneounceload · May 30, 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

a used gun is worth what someone will pay for it, not what the seller asks.

I'll correct my friend's comment to say "ANY product is worth what someone will pay, not what the seller asks"..........

Otherwise NO one would be buying $7 Buds at the ballpark...........

zippy13 · May 30, 2012, 11:57 AM

My statement still stands, my friend. You didn't correct it, you expanded upon it.

TheKlawMan · May 30, 2012, 12:05 PM

There is intrinsic and then there is market value. I thought market value is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree upon in a free and liquid market place.

TheKlawMan · July 9, 2012, 01:42 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPGT0...feature=relmfu

This guy seems to do a good job reviewing the KSG. On thing he points to as a plus causes me to step back. The "windows" in the magazine tubes are there so yo can see if they are loaded, but would they let m0isture and crud in that may jam the tube?

April 26, 2012, 11:34 PM	#1
dajerseyrat Junior Member Join Date: April 13, 2012 Posts: 12	KSG issues hopefully resolved Some of you who read and commented on my previous thread with the Keltec KGS shotgun might be interested to hear this. Here is the original thread where I vented my frustrations: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...50#post5043750 This is the email I just received and apparently they did find a few issues with the gun that were hopefully resolved. Unfortunately I will not get the weapon back till after May 3rd due to me leaving the country in the morning for vacation. :thumbsup: Reading what repairs they did, it makes perfect sense to me with the issues i was having.Hopefully it will shoot very good for me in the future and I will be able to post a positive review of the weapon... I have personally reviewed your weapon and have done the following reviews / repairs: · Replaced Barrel Assembly / Honed Barrel and Chamber: There was nothing “wrong” with the other barrel except I saw some cosmetic issues with the Picatinny and Barrel… the dimensions were good though with the barrel. That and if you were having extraction issues, I wanted to keep that system here to review in case we receive any more in the future… just in case. · Reviewed Bolt: Bolt was good. Polished Bolt Lock as it was on the high tolerance and tight on the inside of the Bolt as the Bolt Lock cams down unlocking the system. This was most likely the issue with the weapon not extracting consistently. · Grip: Good. No issues. · Rear Stock: Good. No issues. · Receiver: Completely rebuilt Receiver. It still has the same serial number and is the same Receiver, but it was rebuilt to ensure it was done correctly. The Receiver was sandblasted and re-parkerized to give it a new look again. New magazine springs / magazine plugs / followers, to ensure the rounds are seating properly—nothing wrong with the old ones, but I’m not going to re-use the old ones here. New Cartridge Stops / Selector / Selector Catch. The issue on Double Feeding also came from the inner cartridge stops (KSG-314 and KSG-315) were sanded to the lower tolerance, so there would be times when they did not work… I saw that too on testing. Those were replaced and the weapon does not Double Feed any more. No issues on anything else there. I did polish the swage / feed ramp area and this is smoother here on loading. · Re-proofed. New assembly as stated above. Weapon was re-proofed. · Test fired and Function Tested. I shot 200+ rounds through the weapon and two of our technician each shot 100+ rounds through the weapon. The weapon did not double feed and it extracted every round, including the “more challenging Centurion rounds” from Italy.

April 27, 2012, 03:27 PM	#3
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	I can learn two things from this thread: 1.) it's not always the best idea to be the first kid on the block with the cool new toy 2.) stick to self-defense ammunition from manufacturers with a proven, reputable track record (Federal Tactical, W-W Ranger, etc..) Buck n ball, Dragon's Breath, Duplex, etc, is overpriced novelty ammo for mall ninjas Hope everything works out for the best, dajerseyrat. It seems like K-T took really good care of you. __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts Last edited by Rampant_Colt; April 27, 2012 at 03:57 PM.

April 27, 2012, 03:34 PM	#5
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	Man! What a nice report Kel-Tec provided. I hope your KSG functions properly when you get it back. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

May 5, 2012, 10:14 AM	#14
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	Now, they need to fix the issue of "availability" so I can buy one at list price instead of the $1,500 and $2,000 the shops around around here are getting for them. __________________ Stay Groovy

July 9, 2012, 01:42 AM	#24
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Good Video on KSG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPGT0...feature=relmfu This guy seems to do a good job reviewing the KSG. On thing he points to as a plus causes me to step back. The "windows" in the magazine tubes are there so yo can see if they are loaded, but would they let m0isture and crud in that may jam the tube?

April 27, 2012, 03:12 PM	#2
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Glad to hear it... it sounds like they're figuring out where the issues have been and they sure took care of making sure the gun was good to go. On another note, I wasn't aware the Centurion shells were on the edge of reliability- I had used some and loved them... haven't seen any in months, so I figured they were gone for now.

April 27, 2012, 03:28 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Make sure, if it works, to go recant on all of the many forums you posted on

April 28, 2012, 03:47 AM	#6
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Like that report they provided. I have heard from many sources their production facility is running oof the hooks right now b/c of demand(not just for KSG), and it is goo to hear they still took some time on your gun.

April 28, 2012, 04:43 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Glad to hear of the exceptional factory service. From your initial review, I suspect some potential owners were anxious to hear the results. Now, go out and make a big pile of hulls.

April 30, 2012, 05:11 PM	#8
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	I don't know if there is a lot for which the OP needs to recant. Kudos to Kel-Tech for apparently going through and fixing the gun, but why was it shipped with a double feeding issue in the first place? Comparing the OP's original post and the response from KT, it also seems that his gun was sold with exraction issues.

April 30, 2012, 05:40 PM	#9
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	KlawMan, my friend, I don't know if I'm being overly pessimistic, but does there seems to be a trend to let the consumer replace in house QC these days?

April 30, 2012, 07:40 PM	#10
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Zippy, I think you're right. Chances are that very few guns will be shipped with problems, quality control or not. By eliminating the more stringent QC steps, they save $, and they just deal with it on the back end when the customer finds the problem.

May 1, 2012, 12:37 AM	#11
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	The fact is that we have gotten to the point where we expect substandard products and less than craftsman like service.

May 5, 2012, 08:40 AM	#13
dajerseyrat Junior Member Join Date: April 13, 2012 Posts: 12	I took the gun to the range last night and ran about 100 rounds through it and it did not jam once, so it looks as if the issues are resolved for now. I did immediately the gun was much easier to load and the magazine selector switch was easier to select from side to side, before the repairs it felt like it had to be forced to the point it would break. The action seemed smoother also. I put my sight back on and dialed it in at 15 yards, and will say this much for the gun, it is DEADLY ACCURATE for a short shotgun. With 00 buck I was able to put a hole dead center of the target and was able to then put every other round of 00 buck through the same hole at 15 yards. Another good thing was that one of my range masters who was there the very same day I first fired the gun and had malfunctions, was there last night and he got to shoot the gun also and said it was night and day from when he first fired it. I will say that I am now happy with my KSG's performance wise so far, time will tell on the durability of the weapon.

May 18, 2012, 04:13 PM	#15
dajerseyrat Junior Member Join Date: April 13, 2012 Posts: 12	I put a magpull angle grip on it, and am waiting on a muzzle break for it. I was contemplating selling this gun to buy an AR, but screw it, Im gonna keep it and but the AR also.Shhhhhhh dont tell my wife...Also Ryan from Keltec is sending me a newly designed stronger fore end to try out on the gun as well as the special lug used to take off the nut at the end of the muzzle to put the muzzle break on =-) I will say this, now that the gun works right, i am in love with it all over again!! And here is my shoulder after 50 rounds of 00 buck =-)

May 19, 2012, 01:41 PM	#16
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Ouch!! Glad the gun's working.....

May 21, 2012, 09:23 PM	#17
dajerseyrat Junior Member Join Date: April 13, 2012 Posts: 12	Keltec just sent me a newly designed front stock to test out. They added structural supports to it to give is some more strength for the use of vertical for grips. I will be testing it soon and report back... Original new one side by side comparison

May 24, 2012, 12:44 AM	#18
knowyourlimit Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2012 Posts: 4	Dajerseyrat, Version 1.0 usually means "uh-oh." Being one of the first to get one is not always a good way to go. It's a shame the user today is performing both the R&D and QA to test a manufacturer's product that was much awaited after its unveiling almost two years ago. That stuff should have been done before it went out the door. We've come to accept mediocre products these days. PS - It's shame you got banned over on KTOG's forum with your complaints. You should have at least been able to provide them an update on your KSG's back-in-the-saddle status. We were fortunate enough to have read it here and on the Hi-Point forum. Thanks

May 30, 2012, 08:23 AM	#19
knowyourlimit Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2012 Posts: 4	These go for a princely sum on the used-market - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=286377642

May 30, 2012, 11:57 AM	#22
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	My statement still stands, my friend. You didn't correct it, you expanded upon it.

May 30, 2012, 12:05 PM	#23
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	There is intrinsic and then there is market value. I thought market value is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree upon in a free and liquid market place.