Durability of Armi San Marco revolvers?

SIGSHR · August 28, 2013, 02:49 PM

On another board a member told a new BP shooter to avoid Armi San Marco revolvers because their internal parts were not properly heat-treated and hence not durable? Anyone know about this?

Doc Hoy · August 28, 2013, 03:55 PM

That ASM internals suffer from softness in the metal. But I am not sure I think it is a terrible problem.

I have a lot of ASM pieces and they are reliable for the amount that I shoot which is not excessive.

You can't get ASM parts any longer and so if you have a problem with an ASM revolver, you will be fixing it with parts that are manufactured for other revolvers or you will be buying a part that the vendor says is an ASM part but really isn't.

You can buy an internal's kit from Cabelas for about 35.00 which has more parts than you will ever need. So as I see it, ASM revolvers should not be avoided on the strength of the argument that they are too soft.

On the other hand, if you already have one and want to get rid of it, I would be happy to give it a good home.

bedbugbilly · August 28, 2013, 05:37 PM

Listen to Doc . . . I know he's worked on a number of 'em.

Over the years, I've also run across the comments that ASM isn't any good . . . internals are crap . . . yadda, yadda, yadda

I've owned three ASM's - a '51 Navy, a '62 Pocket and I currently have a '61 Navy. All of them were well made and I never had a problem with 'em. The only reason I don't own the '51 and the '62 now is that I figured I'd "down size the herd" some. I used the '51 to trade for a Colt Army Special and I sold the '62 as I didn't shoot it that much. As far as my plans to "down size" . . . well I guess that will never work.

I'm sure that if you shot the heck out of one of 'em, at some point you might need to do some work on it . . . but the same goes for any other brand whether it be ASM, Uberti or Pietta. I'd have no problem in buying another ASM and shooting it. I passed on a ASM '61 Navy conversion in 38 spl once and I have always regretted it - it was a beautiful piece. Like many of the threads on the internet . . . everyone has an opinion . .. which they are entitled to. How many times do we see arguments about the quality of Heritage, Taurus, S & W, Colt and the list goes on and on.

It's nice to see thought, that Doc wouldn't turn away an ASM and he'd give it a good home . . I wonder how he feels about three legged goats? I have a herd of about 600 head or so that I'd like to get rid of . . . hmmmm . . . maybe I should check on what it would cost to ship 'em to his location "freight collect"?

Hawg · August 28, 2013, 07:30 PM

ASM's have a rep for spotty quality on internal parts. Some were good, some not so good. If the price is right I don't see it as a deal breaker. You may have to fit parts but then you have to do that on some Uberti and Pietta parts. The difference is it is usually a long time before you have to replace any Uberti/Pietta parts, if you ever do.

n5lyc · August 28, 2013, 09:49 PM

I currently own 3 asm's.
an 1851 kit in .36 (it has not been finished yet).
an 1861 navy in .36,
and a 1860 army in .44

Here is a review of my ASM 1861 navy that shows some of the quality issues that came with it, but with all that stacked against it, the way it shoots, I have no intention of parting with it anytime soon. so far i have fired over 300 rounds through this pistol, and have no idea how many were fired before i got it.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528341

the 1851 is a brass framed kit that has never been completed(i bought it to let my nephew complete the kit and learn some skills)

the 1860 has no issues, good timing, tight lockup, accurate, and shoots almost as good as the 1861. and i have fired this one over 100 times with no issues.

I can't complain about ASM, I feel I have gotten my moneys worth of enjoyment out of them, and feel I will get years more from them.

I have others, Pietta, A.S.P., and Uberti and GLB (a Schneider & Glassick .36 caliber)

Like Doc, I will give ANY Cap & Ball or single action revolver a good home, I don't care who made it.

I don't discriminate..

If the price is right, get it and enjoy it.

45 Bravo

North East Redneck · August 29, 2013, 06:35 AM

I have an ASM '58. Been shooting it for a couple years. 100s of rounds through it. So far no problems at all.

Hellgate · August 29, 2013, 11:36 AM

They are what I started out with for CAS/SASSmatches back in the 1990s. Depending on the importer they varied considerably. Most of my ASM guns (all Colt clones) have at one time broken their hand springs. Some of the importers never specified to CLEAN the guns after proof testing and arrived brand new with rusted barrels. The best one I ever had was an ASM "Hartford Model 1860 Army from EMF. Better finish. At that time ('90s) I had my best ones (a pair if 44 cal '51 Navies and the Hartford 1860) tuned by a perfectionist gunsmith (Mad Dog McCracken) and he hardened the triggers, smoothed up the innards and timed them. They STILL are my "serious" match guns in spite of all the other guns I've had (38 so far, kept about 15). When I had him "tune" a Pietta 1860 Army he said the internals were crap. The only Pietta I own now is a J H Dance model and it runs great. I hear the Piettas are much better made these days.

swathdiver · August 29, 2013, 01:26 PM

Deer Creek still has and sells ASM parts.

Our ASMs have faster twist rifling suited for conicals compared with older Uberti and most all Piettas.

Doc Hoy · August 29, 2013, 02:02 PM

What Deer Creek has in actual ASM parts for replica cap and ball revolvers is limited to screws and not much else.

They have parts that they are selling which they say are ASM, but what they really mean is that they are manufactured now to fit ASM revolvers.

That information is about a year old and they may have come up with some old stock original ASM parts but I doubt it.

robhof · August 30, 2013, 07:55 AM

I have 3 ASM's and shoot them pretty regularly with no problems. My 1st was an 1849 baby dragoon and it came with a few problems, but thanks to the great people on this site, it works great now and is my wife's favorite gun. It has had many rounds through it and it still licks up tight and shoots straight!

Hellgate · August 31, 2013, 11:15 AM

I tried calling Deer Cr several times yesterday but all I got over an hour was a constant busy signal. I have 2 or 3 ASM 44 cal colt cylinders in the white and wanted to sell them to them but no answer.

Doc Hoy · August 31, 2013, 11:49 AM

At that time there was what I thought was a somewhat elderly couple operating the business. They were great folks to deal with but the operation was limited by a lack of technology and then further limited when one of the pair took sick.

At that point it seemed as though everything came to a screeching halt.

Then about 18 months ago, I think a younger person, perhaps a son, took over and service seemed to be back on track.

I am dismayed to learn from your post that the business is perhaps again on less than firm footing.

Deer Creek was for a long time a real asset to the BP way of life. It would be a shame if they were no longer among us.

Tnx,

swathdiver · September 1, 2013, 11:48 PM

They probably took the day off for a long holiday weekend or he called during lunch hour. They don't answer the phones during lunch or after closing.

North East Redneck · September 7, 2013, 12:00 AM

I purchased an extra cylinder for my '58 ASM several months ago. Can't remember if it came from VTI or elsewhere. Anyway, it works nicely. Gun runs well with it.

Doug Bowser · August 18, 2016, 02:36 PM

I have an ASM 1873 revolver. It functions well and I will replace any bad parts with Uberti parts. I had 2 ASM 1873 revolvers in .45 Colt. I used them in CAS shooting and shot many thousands of rounds out of them. No timing or internal problems. I did break a trigger-bolt spring and I replaced it with a coil Hiene spring. I would recommend the ASM cartridge revolvers.

snubnose57 · August 20, 2016, 07:12 PM

I bought a used ASM 1858 Remington.
Had to tap the cylinder pin out.
Turns out when the hole in the frame was off center of the pin.

BlackPowderBen · August 20, 2016, 11:40 PM

Snubnose, was the ASM 1858 remington a brasser? A friend of mine has a ASM brass remington that has the same problem.

snubnose57 · October 7, 2016, 06:28 PM

sorry for the long reply, been away.
No, it is steel frame. Dummy be, I thought I could file off the cylinder pin until it would slide into the offsetting hole.
Now the pin is out of round.
If I now hammer in, it will cock 3 times OK, then I have to turn the cylinder for the last 3, guess I messed it up for good.
Ordered a new pin from Dixie, but it was too fat.

MadSweeney · October 21, 2016, 02:25 PM

One of my NSSA team mates has had an ASM 44 Remington since the 70's. Must have a gajillion rounds through it. The only problem I ever heard him have was a soft spring (forget which one).

August 28, 2013, 02:49 PM	#1
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Durability of Armi San Marco revolvers? On another board a member told a new BP shooter to avoid Armi San Marco revolvers because their internal parts were not properly heat-treated and hence not durable? Anyone know about this?

August 28, 2013, 03:55 PM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I believe it is true.... That ASM internals suffer from softness in the metal. But I am not sure I think it is a terrible problem. I have a lot of ASM pieces and they are reliable for the amount that I shoot which is not excessive. You can't get ASM parts any longer and so if you have a problem with an ASM revolver, you will be fixing it with parts that are manufactured for other revolvers or you will be buying a part that the vendor says is an ASM part but really isn't. You can buy an internal's kit from Cabelas for about 35.00 which has more parts than you will ever need. So as I see it, ASM revolvers should not be avoided on the strength of the argument that they are too soft. On the other hand, if you already have one and want to get rid of it, I would be happy to give it a good home. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 28, 2013, 05:37 PM	#3
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Listen to Doc . . . I know he's worked on a number of 'em. Over the years, I've also run across the comments that ASM isn't any good . . . internals are crap . . . yadda, yadda, yadda I've owned three ASM's - a '51 Navy, a '62 Pocket and I currently have a '61 Navy. All of them were well made and I never had a problem with 'em. The only reason I don't own the '51 and the '62 now is that I figured I'd "down size the herd" some. I used the '51 to trade for a Colt Army Special and I sold the '62 as I didn't shoot it that much. As far as my plans to "down size" . . . well I guess that will never work. I'm sure that if you shot the heck out of one of 'em, at some point you might need to do some work on it . . . but the same goes for any other brand whether it be ASM, Uberti or Pietta. I'd have no problem in buying another ASM and shooting it. I passed on a ASM '61 Navy conversion in 38 spl once and I have always regretted it - it was a beautiful piece. Like many of the threads on the internet . . . everyone has an opinion . .. which they are entitled to. How many times do we see arguments about the quality of Heritage, Taurus, S & W, Colt and the list goes on and on. It's nice to see thought, that Doc wouldn't turn away an ASM and he'd give it a good home . . I wonder how he feels about three legged goats? I have a herd of about 600 head or so that I'd like to get rid of . . . hmmmm . . . maybe I should check on what it would cost to ship 'em to his location "freight collect"? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

August 28, 2013, 09:49 PM	#5
n5lyc Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 180	I currently own 3 asm's. an 1851 kit in .36 (it has not been finished yet). an 1861 navy in .36, and a 1860 army in .44 Here is a review of my ASM 1861 navy that shows some of the quality issues that came with it, but with all that stacked against it, the way it shoots, I have no intention of parting with it anytime soon. so far i have fired over 300 rounds through this pistol, and have no idea how many were fired before i got it. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528341 the 1851 is a brass framed kit that has never been completed(i bought it to let my nephew complete the kit and learn some skills) the 1860 has no issues, good timing, tight lockup, accurate, and shoots almost as good as the 1861. and i have fired this one over 100 times with no issues. I can't complain about ASM, I feel I have gotten my moneys worth of enjoyment out of them, and feel I will get years more from them. I have others, Pietta, A.S.P., and Uberti and GLB (a Schneider & Glassick .36 caliber) Like Doc, I will give ANY Cap & Ball or single action revolver a good home, I don't care who made it. I don't discriminate.. If the price is right, get it and enjoy it. 45 Bravo __________________ I make 2 predictions: ON THE DATE WHEN US TROOPS ARE ISSUED AN Energy Pulse Weapon, 1. The US Soldier will have on his person a version of the Colt 1911. 2. He will be aiming the NEW Weapon at someone carrying an AK.

August 29, 2013, 06:35 AM	#6
North East Redneck Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2012 Location: Berkshire Hills Posts: 741	I have an ASM '58. Been shooting it for a couple years. 100s of rounds through it. So far no problems at all. __________________ NRA Patron Member SAF Life Member GOAL Member

August 28, 2013, 07:30 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	ASM's have a rep for spotty quality on internal parts. Some were good, some not so good. If the price is right I don't see it as a deal breaker. You may have to fit parts but then you have to do that on some Uberti and Pietta parts. The difference is it is usually a long time before you have to replace any Uberti/Pietta parts, if you ever do.

August 29, 2013, 11:36 AM	#7
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	They are what I started out with for CAS/SASSmatches back in the 1990s. Depending on the importer they varied considerably. Most of my ASM guns (all Colt clones) have at one time broken their hand springs. Some of the importers never specified to CLEAN the guns after proof testing and arrived brand new with rusted barrels. The best one I ever had was an ASM "Hartford Model 1860 Army from EMF. Better finish. At that time ('90s) I had my best ones (a pair if 44 cal '51 Navies and the Hartford 1860) tuned by a perfectionist gunsmith (Mad Dog McCracken) and he hardened the triggers, smoothed up the innards and timed them. They STILL are my "serious" match guns in spite of all the other guns I've had (38 so far, kept about 15). When I had him "tune" a Pietta 1860 Army he said the internals were crap. The only Pietta I own now is a J H Dance model and it runs great. I hear the Piettas are much better made these days. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

August 29, 2013, 01:26 PM	#8
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Deer Creek still has and sells ASM parts. Our ASMs have faster twist rifling suited for conicals compared with older Uberti and most all Piettas.

August 29, 2013, 02:02 PM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Careful What Deer Creek has in actual ASM parts for replica cap and ball revolvers is limited to screws and not much else. They have parts that they are selling which they say are ASM, but what they really mean is that they are manufactured now to fit ASM revolvers. That information is about a year old and they may have come up with some old stock original ASM parts but I doubt it. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 30, 2013, 07:55 AM	#10
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof I have 3 ASM's and shoot them pretty regularly with no problems. My 1st was an 1849 baby dragoon and it came with a few problems, but thanks to the great people on this site, it works great now and is my wife's favorite gun. It has had many rounds through it and it still licks up tight and shoots straight!

August 31, 2013, 11:15 AM	#11
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I tried calling Deer Cr several times yesterday but all I got over an hour was a constant busy signal. I have 2 or 3 ASM 44 cal colt cylinders in the white and wanted to sell them to them but no answer. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

August 31, 2013, 11:49 AM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I started working with Deer Creek about 3 years ago At that time there was what I thought was a somewhat elderly couple operating the business. They were great folks to deal with but the operation was limited by a lack of technology and then further limited when one of the pair took sick. At that point it seemed as though everything came to a screeching halt. Then about 18 months ago, I think a younger person, perhaps a son, took over and service seemed to be back on track. I am dismayed to learn from your post that the business is perhaps again on less than firm footing. Deer Creek was for a long time a real asset to the BP way of life. It would be a shame if they were no longer among us. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

September 1, 2013, 11:48 PM	#13
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	They probably took the day off for a long holiday weekend or he called during lunch hour. They don't answer the phones during lunch or after closing.

September 7, 2013, 12:00 AM	#14
North East Redneck Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2012 Location: Berkshire Hills Posts: 741	I purchased an extra cylinder for my '58 ASM several months ago. Can't remember if it came from VTI or elsewhere. Anyway, it works nicely. Gun runs well with it. __________________ NRA Patron Member SAF Life Member GOAL Member

August 18, 2016, 02:36 PM	#15
Doug Bowser Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Posts: 163	I have an ASM 1873 revolver. It functions well and I will replace any bad parts with Uberti parts. I had 2 ASM 1873 revolvers in .45 Colt. I used them in CAS shooting and shot many thousands of rounds out of them. No timing or internal problems. I did break a trigger-bolt spring and I replaced it with a coil Hiene spring. I would recommend the ASM cartridge revolvers.

August 20, 2016, 07:12 PM	#16
snubnose57 Junior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Posts: 5	I bought a used ASM 1858 Remington. Had to tap the cylinder pin out. Turns out when the hole in the frame was off center of the pin.

August 20, 2016, 11:40 PM	#17
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Snubnose, was the ASM 1858 remington a brasser? A friend of mine has a ASM brass remington that has the same problem. __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

October 7, 2016, 06:28 PM	#18
snubnose57 Junior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Posts: 5	sorry for the long reply, been away. No, it is steel frame. Dummy be, I thought I could file off the cylinder pin until it would slide into the offsetting hole. Now the pin is out of round. If I now hammer in, it will cock 3 times OK, then I have to turn the cylinder for the last 3, guess I messed it up for good. Ordered a new pin from Dixie, but it was too fat.

October 21, 2016, 02:25 PM	#19
MadSweeney Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2013 Posts: 4	One of my NSSA team mates has had an ASM 44 Remington since the 70's. Must have a gajillion rounds through it. The only problem I ever heard him have was a soft spring (forget which one).