Homicides in the United States

model67a · May 11, 2009, 03:26 AM

You know they keep bringing up how many homicides are committed in Mexico using illegal guns from the United States, I wish they would come out with the statistics on how many homicides are committed in the United States by illegal aliens from Mexico. It seem like they conveniently disregard this. I haven't seen a stat on this. I guess if there is one they bury it so deep a person cannot find it. I would imagine that the homicides committed by illegal aliens in our country far outnumber the homicides they are claiming are being committed in Mexico by illegal guns from our country. If anyone can find a stat on this I would appreciate it if you would post it as it would be very interesting info. stay safe

ssilicon · May 11, 2009, 03:52 AM

Maybe it is some of those same illegals who are obtaining guns here and getting them back to Mexico?

TEDDY · May 11, 2009, 12:37 PM

over one third of inmates are mexican.there probly is more in mexico as the people have always had violence.but the guns they pick up maay not have been use in any crime as the mere possesion of guns is illeagal.the ones doing the killing are AK 47 and gov M16s delivered to the mexican military.

BillCA · May 12, 2009, 01:17 AM

First, the UCR (FBI Uniform Crime Report) does not break down homicide statistics into those committed by legal U.S. Citizens, visa holders, visitors and illegals. It just isn't geared to do that.

I'd suggest searching the web for a group pushing for enforcing immigration laws, tightening border security and deporting illegals. It's likely they will have some information gleaned from public reports.

There was a sensational series of murders in Texas and gulf coast states tied to some illegal killing women then hopping freight trains out of town.

But the most common weapon, I think, that's used is the automobile. Stories are fairly common that an illegal smashes into another vehicle or two while DUI. I recall one near San Diego where the illegal killed an entire family of six. Last November a couple, parents of 5 kids, were killed returning from grocery shopping when an unlicensed, uninsured illegal doing approximately 70mph t-boned them as they were making a left turn.

I classify all of these as homicides. If you're in a country illegally, get drunk or stoned, drive illegally and kill someone, it's not an "accident". That would show a complete disregard for any laws or the lives of others.

pendennis · May 12, 2009, 08:30 AM

This story ran on ABC radio this morning. The link is to the LA Times.

Seems like the LA Sheriff released a violent illegal alien, and he ended up killing a star high school football player.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...w-lawsuit.html

Maybe the law enforcement agencies need to be hit where it hurts.

Jazzninja · May 12, 2009, 08:38 AM

The term "illegal alien" is not politically correct. The pollitically correct term is "undocumented immigrant." How insensitive of you...

Dragon55 · May 12, 2009, 08:50 AM

In my local paper there's a section called Crime Beat. I've noticed several 'Latin' names. These represent I'm sure some illegal undocumented alien immigrants as it seems they definitely are not afraid of work. I think they do most of the 'hard' work around here because we have so many lazy Americans that won't work that hard. (Roofing, construction, tomatoe/tobacco farming)

Anyway, from reading this section occasionally it seems that this group commits violence to each other most of the time.

BlueTrain · May 12, 2009, 09:20 AM

How many have Italian names?

Dragon55 · May 12, 2009, 09:26 AM

No... not any Luigi's or Mario's just Pedros and Hulio's

#18indycolts · May 12, 2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

I would imagine homicides committed by illegal aliens in our country far outnumber the homicides they are claiming are being committed in Mexico by illegal guns from our country.

right

, and why would you think so? This thread has gone south since it started.

onthejon55 · May 12, 2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

I think they do most of the 'hard' work around here because we have so many lazy Americans that won't work that hard. (Roofing, construction, tomatoe/tobacco farming)

Why work when the govt. is willing to just give you money instead of you earning it. Stop complaining, start voting (for Ron Paul).

to the OP:
Its okay when illegals kill us because they come from a bad country where they are raised that way, while American's come form a good country so they are expected to behave better.
(welcome to the 21st century)

JuanCarlos · May 12, 2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

over one third of inmates are mexican.

Closer to a quarter, actually (27% as of 2005). The one-third number is probably just for federal inmates, though I don't know. 27% includes federal all the way down to local.

Looking around at some numbers it seems like, depending what assumptions you're working with, the number of Mexicans killed by guns smuggled illegally from the U.S. and the number of Americans killed by illegal immigrants are roughly equivalent. Which is not to say equal, but so say that they're close enough (and they vary widely enough based on the aforementioned assumptions) such that it's not really possible to say conclusively which is more.

EDIT: Actually, it appears that 27% may just be for federal prisons. Note that those were from that GAO. Now I'm seeing numbers from BJS that suggest the number for all prisons may be significantly lower...more like single digits. Also, most of these studies seem to only categorize into "citizens" and "non-citizens," and one should note that not all non-citizens are here illegally (though I'd accept that the bulk of those that wind up in jails or prisons may well be). Lastly, obviously not all illegal aliens, let alone non-citizens, are "mexican." Though I'd also accept that the bulk of illegal aliens probably are Mexican, and that if you're using "Mexican" to refer to all Latin American immigrants as well that number only grows...still, you've got significant populations of non-Latino illegal immigrants across the nation that must be considered. I'm curious, where precisely did this "one third" number come from? I see no way you can possibly make these numbers add up to that.

EDIT: Also, the more numbers I find the more I'm leaning towards the homicides committed by illegal immigrants (particularly Mexican illegal immigrants) being the lower number.

tiberius10721 · May 12, 2009, 12:28 PM

What us american citizens dont realize is that the mexicans are very patient and organized.There are mexican politicians,and organizations here in the United States who are trying to disarm us.Mexicans have done far more damage to the united states than the terrorists in the middle east ever thought of doing.Financially they are killing our economy.this argument that they bring cheap labor is nonsense.Its not cheap when you figure out how much money we spend paying for their schooling,medical bills,incarceration bills and everything else that comes with the illegal alien.invading our borders is an act of war!This problem can be solved overnight sniper towers on the border and landmines just like they do in Korea!But that will never happened because America has been neutered by laws and lawyers!

JuanCarlos · May 12, 2009, 12:38 PM

I figured I'd also point out the reason I bothered with all that talk of numbers. Basically, most "guesstimates" (and that's truly what they are) as to the number of Americans murdered (to include all homicide charges) by illegal immigrants follow a simple chain of assumptions:

X% of inmates (or arrests) are of illegal immigrants->
roughly Y homicides occur per year->
roughly X% of those Y homicides is Z->
Z homicides per year committed by illegal immigrants!

Yet there are numerous reasons that the assumptions in that chain don't necessarily hold, and half the time it's based on an X% that's not accurate anyway.

Granted, a similar chain links X% of guns recovered in Mexico being from the U.S. to Y homicides committed by those guns and blah blah blah.

Quote:

What us american citizens dont realize is that the mexicans are very patient and organized.There are mexican politicians,and organizations here in the United States who are trying to disarm us.Mexicans have done far more damage to the united states than the terrorists in the middle east ever thought of doing.Financially they are killing our economy.this argument that they bring cheap labor is nonsense.Its not cheap when you figure out how much money we spend paying for their schooling,medical bills,incarceration bills and everything else that comes with the illegal alien.invading our borders is an act of war!This problem can be solved overnight sniper towers on the border and landmines just like they do in Korea!But that will never happened because America has been neutered by laws and lawyers!

DOT DOT DOT

Where to begin? Or even to bother?

Also, to head off any "assumptions," it's just a screen name. I don't even tan well.

tiberius10721 · May 12, 2009, 01:35 PM

well I dont make any assumptions either!I believe that every mexican person who immigrates here legally has the right to live the american dream granted to them by the United States constitution and the Bill Of Rights!I dont blame the Mexican people for what they do here in the United States I blame americans and our govt because we let it happen because of our greed!In Mexico if you invade their borders they do something about it because they have national pride in their country and they want their country to survive.We need the same attitude over here!Ive noticed that when an anglo or asian goes postal it gets national coverage but the gang shootings and kidnappings that happen over here every minute of the day hardly get any national coverage!I

beasley · May 12, 2009, 01:43 PM

I'm fine with legals. The illegals gotta go. Kick their kids outta school and refuse them hospital care. They'll stop coming.

tiberius10721 · May 12, 2009, 01:49 PM

exactly!and leave our gun laws alone!

JuanCarlos · May 12, 2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

I'm fine with legals. The illegals gotta go. Kick their kids outta school and refuse them hospital care. They'll stop coming.

I definitely agree that the way to address the problem is to remove the incentive to make the crossing (in a variety of ways). As opposed to, say, trying to declare it an "invasion" so you can justify imposing a sentence of summary execution for immigration violations in the name of fighting a "war."

As we saw suggested a few posts up.

comn-cents · May 12, 2009, 01:59 PM

I just heard that when the US gov. (ATF I believe) asked for serial numbers for all those illegal guns used in killings in Mexico. Seems the Mexican gov. couldn't come up with one. ATF was looking at back tracking them to no avail.

BillCA · May 12, 2009, 09:59 PM

Not quite true, comn-cents,

In the 2007-2008 period, of roughly 29,000 weapons seized, the breakdown looked something like this.

About 10,900 guns were identified as either having "Made in USA" or having import markings showing a USA importer. Out of that 10,900, about 6,000 were the subject of trace requests through BATF. About 5400, of the original 29,000 were actually traced to the U.S.

Regardless of how many illegal immigrants are in prisons, the majority are not here to live a life of crime or run some kind of scam. What bothers me is that many can scrape together between $4000 and $8000 to pay a coyotes to smuggle them into the U.S., yet claim they can't afford to pay for the documents needed to enter legally.

But there should be a bi-weekly train that takes those convicted of misdemeanor crimes down to the border (Nogales or El Paso) and releases them back to Mexico. Felons released from prisons get special treatment... pocketless paper jumpsuits in a nice pink color and a train ride to cross down to Presido, Texas then across into Mexico.

comn-cents · May 12, 2009, 10:03 PM

Great to see Bill Thanks.
I searched for this and found nothing.

tiberius10721 · May 12, 2009, 10:40 PM

If u crossed the border illegally your a criminal I dont care if they come here to work or not .Its funny how law enforcement picks and chooses which laws to enforce!If I get a dui I go to jail if u enter country illegally you get rewarded.prison problem easy to solve if a mexican national commits felony here in U.S. he gets free ride home to mexico if we catch him here again automatic death penalty!Its called banishment upon penalty of death!For every gang member killed we should get a tax credit of 1000 dollars!gang problem solved!american citizens running guns to mexico that should be considered treason!

JuanCarlos · May 13, 2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

If u crossed the border illegally your a criminal I dont care if they come here to work or not .Its funny how law enforcement picks and chooses which laws to enforce!If I get a dui I go to jail if u enter country illegally you get rewarded.prison problem easy to solve if a mexican national commits felony here in U.S. he gets free ride home to mexico if we catch him here again automatic death penalty!Its called banishment upon penalty of death!For every gang member killed we should get a tax credit of 1000 dollars!gang problem solved!american citizens running guns to mexico that should be considered treason!

In reverse order...

A) Why would running guns to Mexico be treason, again?

B) Yet again you seem to think, with your little tax credit idea, that our illegal immigrant problem is bad enough to warrant the institution of summary executions. The rights of illegal aliens are slightly more limited than those of full citizens, but I'm pretty sure the right not to be deprived of life absent due process isn't one they're lacking. But I'll not claim the title of Constitutional Scholar, I could well be wrong.

C) Law enforcement (and the justice system as a whole) has always, to some extent or another, picked and chosen which laws to enforce. This is true from speeding and petty theft all the way up to war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Al Norris · May 13, 2009, 09:49 AM

Wherever do I start?

Some of you, need to invest in a spell checker.

Some of you need to use proper sentence structure and grammar. Try for at least a 6th grade level! (that's newspaper writing, for those that object to this criteria)

Are we lumping all Latino immigrants as Mexicans? All illegals are Mexicans?

Prisons are overflowing with Mexicans? Comment: I thought prisons housed criminals, regardless of race.

Mexicans are causing as much violence and mayhem within the US as is being committed by the drug wars in Mexico?

I could go on, but I'm simply gonna close this for the low road it started on.

May 11, 2009, 12:37 PM	#3
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	mexicans over one third of inmates are mexican.there probly is more in mexico as the people have always had violence.but the guns they pick up maay not have been use in any crime as the mere possesion of guns is illeagal.the ones doing the killing are AK 47 and gov M16s delivered to the mexican military.

May 12, 2009, 01:17 AM	#4
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	First, the UCR (FBI Uniform Crime Report) does not break down homicide statistics into those committed by legal U.S. Citizens, visa holders, visitors and illegals. It just isn't geared to do that. I'd suggest searching the web for a group pushing for enforcing immigration laws, tightening border security and deporting illegals. It's likely they will have some information gleaned from public reports. There was a sensational series of murders in Texas and gulf coast states tied to some illegal killing women then hopping freight trains out of town. But the most common weapon, I think, that's used is the automobile. Stories are fairly common that an illegal smashes into another vehicle or two while DUI. I recall one near San Diego where the illegal killed an entire family of six. Last November a couple, parents of 5 kids, were killed returning from grocery shopping when an unlicensed, uninsured illegal doing approximately 70mph t-boned them as they were making a left turn. I classify all of these as homicides. If you're in a country illegally, get drunk or stoned, drive illegally and kill someone, it's not an "accident". That would show a complete disregard for any laws or the lives of others. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

May 12, 2009, 08:30 AM	#5
pendennis Junior member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 572	Timely Subject... This story ran on ABC radio this morning. The link is to the LA Times. Seems like the LA Sheriff released a violent illegal alien, and he ended up killing a star high school football player. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...w-lawsuit.html Maybe the law enforcement agencies need to be hit where it hurts.

May 12, 2009, 08:50 AM	#7
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	FWIW In my local paper there's a section called Crime Beat. I've noticed several 'Latin' names. These represent I'm sure some illegal undocumented alien immigrants as it seems they definitely are not afraid of work. I think they do most of the 'hard' work around here because we have so many lazy Americans that won't work that hard. (Roofing, construction, tomatoe/tobacco farming) Anyway, from reading this section occasionally it seems that this group commits violence to each other most of the time. __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

May 12, 2009, 09:20 AM	#8
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	How many have Italian names? __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

May 11, 2009, 03:26 AM	#1
model67a Member Join Date: February 19, 2009 Posts: 38	Homicides in the United States You know they keep bringing up how many homicides are committed in Mexico using illegal guns from the United States, I wish they would come out with the statistics on how many homicides are committed in the United States by illegal aliens from Mexico. It seem like they conveniently disregard this. I haven't seen a stat on this. I guess if there is one they bury it so deep a person cannot find it. I would imagine that the homicides committed by illegal aliens in our country far outnumber the homicides they are claiming are being committed in Mexico by illegal guns from our country. If anyone can find a stat on this I would appreciate it if you would post it as it would be very interesting info. stay safe __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), 1759

May 11, 2009, 03:52 AM	#2
ssilicon Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2005 Posts: 459	Maybe it is some of those same illegals who are obtaining guns here and getting them back to Mexico?

May 12, 2009, 08:38 AM	#6
Jazzninja Member Join Date: March 8, 2009 Posts: 17	The term "illegal alien" is not politically correct. The pollitically correct term is "undocumented immigrant." How insensitive of you...

May 12, 2009, 09:26 AM	#9
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	No... not any Luigi's or Mario's just Pedros and Hulio's __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

May 12, 2009, 12:28 PM	#13
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	What us american citizens dont realize is that the mexicans are very patient and organized.There are mexican politicians,and organizations here in the United States who are trying to disarm us.Mexicans have done far more damage to the united states than the terrorists in the middle east ever thought of doing.Financially they are killing our economy.this argument that they bring cheap labor is nonsense.Its not cheap when you figure out how much money we spend paying for their schooling,medical bills,incarceration bills and everything else that comes with the illegal alien.invading our borders is an act of war!This problem can be solved overnight sniper towers on the border and landmines just like they do in Korea!But that will never happened because America has been neutered by laws and lawyers!

May 12, 2009, 01:35 PM	#15
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	well I dont make any assumptions either!I believe that every mexican person who immigrates here legally has the right to live the american dream granted to them by the United States constitution and the Bill Of Rights!I dont blame the Mexican people for what they do here in the United States I blame americans and our govt because we let it happen because of our greed!In Mexico if you invade their borders they do something about it because they have national pride in their country and they want their country to survive.We need the same attitude over here!Ive noticed that when an anglo or asian goes postal it gets national coverage but the gang shootings and kidnappings that happen over here every minute of the day hardly get any national coverage!I

May 12, 2009, 01:43 PM	#16
beasley Member Join Date: April 12, 2009 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas Posts: 82	I'm fine with legals. The illegals gotta go. Kick their kids outta school and refuse them hospital care. They'll stop coming.

May 12, 2009, 01:49 PM	#17
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	exactly!and leave our gun laws alone!

May 12, 2009, 01:59 PM	#19
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	I just heard that when the US gov. (ATF I believe) asked for serial numbers for all those illegal guns used in killings in Mexico. Seems the Mexican gov. couldn't come up with one. ATF was looking at back tracking them to no avail. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

May 12, 2009, 09:59 PM	#20
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Not quite true, comn-cents, In the 2007-2008 period, of roughly 29,000 weapons seized, the breakdown looked something like this. About 10,900 guns were identified as either having "Made in USA" or having import markings showing a USA importer. Out of that 10,900, about 6,000 were the subject of trace requests through BATF. About 5400, of the original 29,000 were actually traced to the U.S. Regardless of how many illegal immigrants are in prisons, the majority are not here to live a life of crime or run some kind of scam. What bothers me is that many can scrape together between $4000 and $8000 to pay a coyotes to smuggle them into the U.S., yet claim they can't afford to pay for the documents needed to enter legally. But there should be a bi-weekly train that takes those convicted of misdemeanor crimes down to the border (Nogales or El Paso) and releases them back to Mexico. Felons released from prisons get special treatment... pocketless paper jumpsuits in a nice pink color and a train ride to cross down to Presido, Texas then across into Mexico. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

May 12, 2009, 10:03 PM	#21
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	Great to see Bill Thanks. I searched for this and found nothing. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

May 12, 2009, 10:40 PM	#22
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	If u crossed the border illegally your a criminal I dont care if they come here to work or not .Its funny how law enforcement picks and chooses which laws to enforce!If I get a dui I go to jail if u enter country illegally you get rewarded.prison problem easy to solve if a mexican national commits felony here in U.S. he gets free ride home to mexico if we catch him here again automatic death penalty!Its called banishment upon penalty of death!For every gang member killed we should get a tax credit of 1000 dollars!gang problem solved!american citizens running guns to mexico that should be considered treason!

May 13, 2009, 09:49 AM	#24
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Wherever do I start? Some of you, need to invest in a spell checker. Some of you need to use proper sentence structure and grammar. Try for at least a 6th grade level! (that's newspaper writing, for those that object to this criteria) Are we lumping all Latino immigrants as Mexicans? All illegals are Mexicans? Prisons are overflowing with Mexicans? Comment: I thought prisons housed criminals, regardless of race. Mexicans are causing as much violence and mayhem within the US as is being committed by the drug wars in Mexico? I could go on, but I'm simply gonna close this for the low road it started on.