Troublsome Cimarron Frontier

campingnights · February 16, 2015, 02:04 PM

Hey, I thought I was pretty smart getting a 357 Cimarron Frontier to complement my 357 Henry rifle. Thought I might even look into CAS. At first I was pleased with the Cimarron, beautiful gun, then I took it to the range. Between jams, the base pin kept working itself out (yes it was in the right way). Disappointed I took the problem here and received very good advice to stretch the spring to hold the base pin better. Well, it did indeed fix the base pin creeping problem! Still had the constant jamming problem though. Either the case head, or the primer, of the fired cartridges jammed the cylinder rotation to the point I had to pull the base pin and remove the cylinder to clear the jam. Very frustrating.

More to come as I snap pics

campingnights · February 16, 2015, 02:26 PM

I had to get my magnifying glass out to see exactly where the fired brass was catching. I saw that the loading gate hinge was a problem and some areas on the breechface. Being a somewhat independent cuss, and perhaps not-too-bright, I dug out the Dremel and went to grinding. Using the jammed brass as a guide I found a surprising amount of roughness around the breechface. Well, back to the range and each time more jams. A little more grinding and I found the gun would fire factory Remington 38 special 125HP ammo OK, but still jammed on other brands and 357 ammo. I went a bit crazy on the breechface since I knew Cimarron would charge me an arm and a leg if I sent it back to them and I was certain they would weasel out of warrente repair since I had ground a bit on the gun. This is what I did:

Finally got my reloading bench up and running and went to the range yesterday. To my surprise my 38 special reloads worked just fine, I hand seated the primers with a Lyman hand priming tool. I was also pleased to see that the Kinetic 38 special reloads worked OK too. LAX still jammed though. Shot off about 100 38 specials, first time I ever could shoot enough to get that blasted guns barrel warm! I just worked up a dozen 357 loads, 9 grains Unique pushing a 125 grain jacketed flat point. I got my fingers crossed that this blasted gun might indeed become more than a $450 wall hanger with some judicious reloading.

g.willikers · February 16, 2015, 05:53 PM

You might check if the cylinder pin is straight and/or rotating in the gun straight, too.
And maybe if the front and rear of the cylinder are machined parallel and is rotating square in the frame.

campingnights · February 16, 2015, 08:37 PM

I hadn't thought of either of those, that's a good suggestion, thanks. I'll check it out.

BerdanSS · February 16, 2015, 10:05 PM

What a shame your having trouble with it, its a beautiful pistol. Hope it's correctable.

44 Dave · February 16, 2015, 10:53 PM

I had to "clean up" similar issues on the 2 Uberti Cattleman I bought. On the first one I thought it was a one off issue but 2 years later the new one is the same. Mine, .44-40s, had just a little catch where the machining didn't match "level".
I bought mine through the local Uberti dealer but you would think Cimarron would be aware of the short comings.

campingnights · February 17, 2015, 10:34 AM

g.willikers "You might check if the cylinder pin is straight and/or rotating in the gun straight, too. And maybe if the front and rear of the cylinder are machined parallel and is rotating square in the frame. "

Eyeballing it seems square during rotation. I am waiting for a digital calipher I obtained on ebay. Will be able to check better then.

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I never dreamed Cimarron would have a QC issue, I expected better from them. The gun is pretty and I like the heft. I am cautiously optimistic on my new 357 reloads. At least I know it will now go bang every time with my 38 special reloads. Kinda wish I had got a second 1858 Remmy with conversion cylinder when I had the chance. That gun I love and not a lick of trouble with it. One thing I know for sure though, I will never never never consider another Cimarron piece.

Gunfixr · February 17, 2015, 12:05 PM

That looks like an awful lot of metal removal.
There are a handful of things that I would have checked, or just sent the gun back, before taking that kind of metal out of a new gun.

bedbugbilly · February 17, 2015, 12:15 PM

Sorry to hear of your woes . . .

I bought a Uberti 357 Bisley from Uberti a while back and it is a great six shooter and have had no problems at all with it. The only "issue" I can find with it - and it's not a big one - is that blasted two step cylinder pin - it's a PIA and I really need to take the spring loaded retainer apart and polish that so it works smoothy and pushes in and returns smoothly.

One would think that it would be a standard quality control step, once the revolver is completed, to load dummy rounds in and make sure that the cylinder rotates properly with no drag and to check the cylinder gap as well? Maybe that's expecting too much? That handgun ought to function with factory loads that are within spec and there not be any issue with rim thickness or primer drag. If the loads were pushing the primers back that would be one thing but evidently that is not the case.

A nice looking revolver - hope you get it straightened out so you can enjoy it. Good luck!

campingnights · February 17, 2015, 12:21 PM

Gunfixr: "That looks like an awful lot of metal removal.
There are a handful of things that I would have checked, or just sent the gun back, before taking that kind of metal out of a new gun."

Howdy, Gunfixr. The first grinding was much more reserved. When it still jammed I was kind of committed as I had already voided the warranty. This was after about the third grinding. Yeah, it isn't exactly elegant is it? Didn't you read the first part of my post that said sometimes I ain't too bright? *snickers*
The good part is that nothing is visible when the gun is assembled and it just might be the trick that makes this gun perform.

campingnights · February 17, 2015, 12:32 PM

Hey Bedbugbilly, I'm familiar with the Bisley and it has nice lines. Mine also has the two-step base pin and it was a pain to get used to. I kept slipping it in too far and blocking the hammer. I don't use the safety anyhow, figure thats what the empty cylinder is for. Just another pile from another worthless politician that legislates something that he/she has no comprehension about.

Gunfixr · February 17, 2015, 01:33 PM

Well, I only said what I did as that your "fix" may not have actually fixed what was wrong. The checking part first may have proven you right, or may have shown that something else was out of whack, and now to fix the original problem could create a bigger problem.
I don't have the gun in front of me, so maybe, maybe not. I am not against people working on their own guns, it led me down the path I am on now (and often brings me work). I just hate to see anybody rush into a "fix" too quickly.
I love my Dremel as much as the next guy, I've worn out 3 of them. But it doesn't come out as much as one might think.
It's a lot easier to take it off than put it back on.

campingnights · February 17, 2015, 02:58 PM

Gunfixr, ya indeed might be right. We will see at the next trip to the range. Don't ya know that I can fix anything, or at least I can fix it so nobody else can!

Hawg · February 17, 2015, 06:59 PM

I just whacked off the end of the pin so it cant protrude thru the back of the frame and it locks down in the safety stage. It looks better without so much pin in the front too.

campingnights · February 17, 2015, 07:21 PM

It does look better Hawg. That's a pretty good idea, I might just do that. I sure like those grips too.

Gunfixr · February 18, 2015, 11:38 PM

Yes, you can shorten the pin, and just keep it in the "safety" position.
Just remember, you have permanently removed the safety part.
If you do not desire to do this, don't shorten the pin.

campingnights · April 3, 2015, 01:11 PM

Just a followup on my troublesome Cimarron Frontier. Been sick awhile so I just got a chance to get out and play. The 357 reloads function perfectly, just like my 38 special reloads do. The solution and dremel grinding sure ain't elegant, but it did work to restore reliable function to my six gun. I still won't ever buy another Cimarron product, but I think I'll keep this one, it is a handsome piece after all. Might just start grinding on the cylinder base pin just to get rid of that God awful "safety" feature too.

February 16, 2015, 02:04 PM	#1
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Troublsome Cimarron Frontier Hey, I thought I was pretty smart getting a 357 Cimarron Frontier to complement my 357 Henry rifle. Thought I might even look into CAS. At first I was pleased with the Cimarron, beautiful gun, then I took it to the range. Between jams, the base pin kept working itself out (yes it was in the right way). Disappointed I took the problem here and received very good advice to stretch the spring to hold the base pin better. Well, it did indeed fix the base pin creeping problem! Still had the constant jamming problem though. Either the case head, or the primer, of the fired cartridges jammed the cylinder rotation to the point I had to pull the base pin and remove the cylinder to clear the jam. Very frustrating. More to come as I snap pics __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 16, 2015, 02:26 PM	#2
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	I had to get my magnifying glass out to see exactly where the fired brass was catching. I saw that the loading gate hinge was a problem and some areas on the breechface. Being a somewhat independent cuss, and perhaps not-too-bright, I dug out the Dremel and went to grinding. Using the jammed brass as a guide I found a surprising amount of roughness around the breechface. Well, back to the range and each time more jams. A little more grinding and I found the gun would fire factory Remington 38 special 125HP ammo OK, but still jammed on other brands and 357 ammo. I went a bit crazy on the breechface since I knew Cimarron would charge me an arm and a leg if I sent it back to them and I was certain they would weasel out of warrente repair since I had ground a bit on the gun. This is what I did: Finally got my reloading bench up and running and went to the range yesterday. To my surprise my 38 special reloads worked just fine, I hand seated the primers with a Lyman hand priming tool. I was also pleased to see that the Kinetic 38 special reloads worked OK too. LAX still jammed though. Shot off about 100 38 specials, first time I ever could shoot enough to get that blasted guns barrel warm! I just worked up a dozen 357 loads, 9 grains Unique pushing a 125 grain jacketed flat point. I got my fingers crossed that this blasted gun might indeed become more than a $450 wall hanger with some judicious reloading. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 16, 2015, 05:53 PM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	You might check if the cylinder pin is straight and/or rotating in the gun straight, too. And maybe if the front and rear of the cylinder are machined parallel and is rotating square in the frame. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 16, 2015, 08:37 PM	#4
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	I hadn't thought of either of those, that's a good suggestion, thanks. I'll check it out. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 16, 2015, 10:05 PM	#5
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	What a shame your having trouble with it, its a beautiful pistol. Hope it's correctable. __________________ One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek .... "Smoke.....it's what's for dinner"

February 16, 2015, 10:53 PM	#6
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I had to "clean up" similar issues on the 2 Uberti Cattleman I bought. On the first one I thought it was a one off issue but 2 years later the new one is the same. Mine, .44-40s, had just a little catch where the machining didn't match "level". I bought mine through the local Uberti dealer but you would think Cimarron would be aware of the short comings.

February 17, 2015, 10:34 AM	#7
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	g.willikers "You might check if the cylinder pin is straight and/or rotating in the gun straight, too. And maybe if the front and rear of the cylinder are machined parallel and is rotating square in the frame. " Eyeballing it seems square during rotation. I am waiting for a digital calipher I obtained on ebay. Will be able to check better then. Thanks for your thoughts guys. I never dreamed Cimarron would have a QC issue, I expected better from them. The gun is pretty and I like the heft. I am cautiously optimistic on my new 357 reloads. At least I know it will now go bang every time with my 38 special reloads. Kinda wish I had got a second 1858 Remmy with conversion cylinder when I had the chance. That gun I love and not a lick of trouble with it. One thing I know for sure though, I will never never never consider another Cimarron piece. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 17, 2015, 12:05 PM	#8
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	That looks like an awful lot of metal removal. There are a handful of things that I would have checked, or just sent the gun back, before taking that kind of metal out of a new gun.

February 17, 2015, 12:15 PM	#9
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Sorry to hear of your woes . . . I bought a Uberti 357 Bisley from Uberti a while back and it is a great six shooter and have had no problems at all with it. The only "issue" I can find with it - and it's not a big one - is that blasted two step cylinder pin - it's a PIA and I really need to take the spring loaded retainer apart and polish that so it works smoothy and pushes in and returns smoothly. One would think that it would be a standard quality control step, once the revolver is completed, to load dummy rounds in and make sure that the cylinder rotates properly with no drag and to check the cylinder gap as well? Maybe that's expecting too much? That handgun ought to function with factory loads that are within spec and there not be any issue with rim thickness or primer drag. If the loads were pushing the primers back that would be one thing but evidently that is not the case. A nice looking revolver - hope you get it straightened out so you can enjoy it. Good luck! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

February 17, 2015, 12:21 PM	#10
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Gunfixr: "That looks like an awful lot of metal removal. There are a handful of things that I would have checked, or just sent the gun back, before taking that kind of metal out of a new gun." Howdy, Gunfixr. The first grinding was much more reserved. When it still jammed I was kind of committed as I had already voided the warranty. This was after about the third grinding. Yeah, it isn't exactly elegant is it? Didn't you read the first part of my post that said sometimes I ain't too bright? snickers The good part is that nothing is visible when the gun is assembled and it just might be the trick that makes this gun perform. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 17, 2015, 12:32 PM	#11
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Hey Bedbugbilly, I'm familiar with the Bisley and it has nice lines. Mine also has the two-step base pin and it was a pain to get used to. I kept slipping it in too far and blocking the hammer. I don't use the safety anyhow, figure thats what the empty cylinder is for. Just another pile from another worthless politician that legislates something that he/she has no comprehension about. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 17, 2015, 01:33 PM	#12
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Well, I only said what I did as that your "fix" may not have actually fixed what was wrong. The checking part first may have proven you right, or may have shown that something else was out of whack, and now to fix the original problem could create a bigger problem. I don't have the gun in front of me, so maybe, maybe not. I am not against people working on their own guns, it led me down the path I am on now (and often brings me work). I just hate to see anybody rush into a "fix" too quickly. I love my Dremel as much as the next guy, I've worn out 3 of them. But it doesn't come out as much as one might think. It's a lot easier to take it off than put it back on.

February 17, 2015, 02:58 PM	#13
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Gunfixr, ya indeed might be right. We will see at the next trip to the range. Don't ya know that I can fix anything, or at least I can fix it so nobody else can! __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 17, 2015, 06:59 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I just whacked off the end of the pin so it cant protrude thru the back of the frame and it locks down in the safety stage. It looks better without so much pin in the front too.

February 17, 2015, 07:21 PM	#15
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	It does look better Hawg. That's a pretty good idea, I might just do that. I sure like those grips too. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

February 18, 2015, 11:38 PM	#16
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Yes, you can shorten the pin, and just keep it in the "safety" position. Just remember, you have permanently removed the safety part. If you do not desire to do this, don't shorten the pin.

April 3, 2015, 01:11 PM	#17
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Just a followup on my troublesome Cimarron Frontier. Been sick awhile so I just got a chance to get out and play. The 357 reloads function perfectly, just like my 38 special reloads do. The solution and dremel grinding sure ain't elegant, but it did work to restore reliable function to my six gun. I still won't ever buy another Cimarron product, but I think I'll keep this one, it is a handsome piece after all. Might just start grinding on the cylinder base pin just to get rid of that God awful "safety" feature too. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began