Arguments for and against light mounted on one's CCW/HD pistol

[ezmiraldo]

Let's hear it folks. Let's assume we are talking about using the same pistol for both CC and HD (a pretty likely situation for many gun owners).

To get us started, here're some I can think of.

FOR:
- Like cockroaches, BGs like darkness. Target identification in darkness (especially in HD scenarios) is greatly facilitated by having light right there on the gun.
- In the dark or not, having one hand free (which would otherwise be holding a separate flashlight in the dark) is useful to deflect attack, open doors, hold onto BG's gun.
- One can illuminate the area/room without having to put flashlight (and muzzle) directly on the object/person. Having gun in low-ready will illuminate everything in front (assuming one has a modern light with greater than 100 lumens).
- Lots of great CC IWB or OWB holsters can accommodate lights mounted on pistols.
- Many don't practice shooting one-handed enough. Having gun on light allows one to assume 2-handed grip, facilitating accuracy and speed.
- Weight of the light makes gun heavier, reducing felt recoil and speeding up follow-up shots.
- One has more options (one doesn't necessarily have to use light every time the gun is pulled). Having options is good.
- Blinding BG with one's flashlight might be good in some situations.
- Over the last 10-20 years pistol-mounted lights have grown lighter, smaller, and brighter
- Argument made by Mas Ayoob in his 2012 book on concealed carry regarding preventing slide from getting out of battery when you are in CQB and are in a situation where you are pressing the muzzle of the gun against BG. Lights attached are normally a bit longer than the muzzle, preventing the slide from going out of battery and preventing gun from malfunctioning in this critical moment.

AGAINST:
- Even if one is trying to identify object/person by putting light in low-ready position, instead of directly on the object/person, tunnel vision, startle reflex, and body response to threat will make it likely that during dangerous situations one would put light (and hence muzzle) on the object/person to be identified. This might unnecessarily endanger family members coming home late, drunk roommates, pets, and other good guys.
- Too heavy/bulky for CCW.
- Light detached is more flexible in ways it can be used (e.g., "FBI method" allows you to have light away from your body, potentially confusing BG who might think the light is where your body is. However with modern lights, the entire room, as well as your entire body is pretty well lit - reducing this particular advantage of the FBI method).
- Overzealous prosecutor can paint you as an assassin wanna-be who "likes to hunt his prey in the dark" - even if you did everything right as a CCW holder and even if you engaged in good justifiable defensive shoot.
- Using light in defensive situation might give away your location.
- Some pistols (e.g., glocks in .40 cal) malfunction when light is attached.
- Night vision ability is temporarily lost (which is the argument against using lights in low-light conditions more generally - can be overcome (a) if one closes the dominant eye while momentarily using the light and (b) by using red light as opposed to white)

What are some additional arguments?

[JohnKSa]

I'm not necessarily a big Clint Smith fan, but his comments on lights seem to make decent sense.

March/April 2013 American Handgunner Reality Check Column "Light On Light OFF?" by Clint Smith

Even if you use a weapon-mounted light, I encourage you to train to use the gun light and an additional handheld. It allows you to double-light an area, to have an immediate backup, or to use the second light to “bounce” light off the ceiling or offset doorways or to direct both straight forward.
...

I think strobes are dumb and jack up your eyes really bad. I have had people miss the bullet trap—not the target, but the 24”x36” entire target trap—at distances of less than eight feet. When questioned, it’s always the same answer, “It really messed up my eyes while firing.”

November 2013 Guns Magazine Ranging Shots Column "Applying Light You can’t hit what you can’t see" By Clint Smith

I use the light to find the light switch on the wall and to turn it on so I can see what I’m shooting at. Turning the light on is dangerous because you can get killed, but I would rather see what I was shooting at—making sure it wasn’t a family member—so I can get killed, but I would rather get killed than kill my kids or my partner.
...
The light may “blind” your opponent but it won’t do a darn thing to their trigger finger so they can, will and, in the past have shot back. Strobe lights are stupid because they jack your eyes up. Yeah, maybe the threat’s eyes also, but we covered the “lights in the eyes” and I don’t want to outsmart myself. Many people have.

[Dragline45]

Personally I would never have a light on a gun intended for CC, but I am a big advocate for weapon lights on HD guns.

For those who say having a weapon light makes you an immediate target, that is a valid concern, but if you have ever had one pointed in your direction it pretty much blinds you. I would rather see the threat and what I am shooting at then walk blindly into a dark room. When called for, Military Law Enforcement agencies use weapon lights for a reason, and that is because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I carry my CCW with a Streamlight TLR-1s. It's for HD too of course.

Not a problem for me at all. IWB or OWB at 3:30-4:30. If I'm carrying AIWB I don't carry my weapon mounted light. Only reason for that is because I don't have an appendix rig for a mounted light yet.

[dayman]

I have one on my "nightstand" gun. I have a separate flashlight too, but having the weapon light means I'll have a light even if I drop, or for some reason can't use my big mag-light.
I don't keep one on my gun when I carry because of bulk, and because my holster doesn't accommodate it.

[g.willikers]

Good questions on a confusing subject, ezmiraldo.
For every point there's an equally reasonable counterpoint.
Having two lights seems to make the most sense.
Then there's a choice as to use the one on the gun or not, depending on circumstances.
If the gun accommodates one, of course.

[CLC]

- Some pistols (e.g., glocks in .40 cal) malfunction when light is attached.

Is this true? What would cause the weapon to malfunction?

[FireForged]

If a person does not mind the extra bulk and weight of a light, I see no real problem as long as they realize that the purpose is to be able to see what you are shooting at [ and that works both ways].

I don't carry a light on my ccw simply because I don't think the extra bulk and weight is worth it but that's just me. At home I do not use a weapon mounted light simply because I know my home well enough and can see 99.9% of the time just fine due to moonlight and other light sources outside that shine the specific windows that I leave curtains-open just for that purpose. If I need a light, I have a fenix in the nightstand and several energizer-Romeo's around the house.

I dislike weapon mounted lights about as much as I dislike vehicle dome lights that you cannot over-ride

[ClydeFrog]

In the 1990s/2000s, white-lights & laser aimers were considered add-ons or poor tactics by some. Companies like Crimsontrace & Surefire were just starting out and the technology was new(unproven).
Some major LE agencies & military units embraced the concept(s).
See the action film Speed(1994), the LAPD SWAT characters all used 1911a1 .45acp pistols with the Surefire lights, .
Lasers & white-lights have merit under some applications but they do not replace basic marksmanship. You must also apply common sense & good judgement when using these tools.
I could see using smaller lasers or light systems on CCW weapons. New green lasers are even available for compact pistols now.
The bulk & awkward shape would keep me from packing a full size white light on a carry or duty gun but I've seen many who do it.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Yeah forgot to mention that. Aside from the weapon light. I always have this on me



700 lumen output with 4 settings and strobe as a fifth.

Yes. Yes I'm on the throne.

[ezmiraldo]

CLC, there were some reports that 40 cal glocks malfunction when light is attached. The working hypothesis was that the frame doesn't flex as it should when light is firmly attached, leading to malfunctions. I have experienced this not in .40 cal but in 10mm. I "think" powerful rounds slam the slide back very hard, and with no frame flexing, slide travels back even faster than it already does - creating all kinds of weird issues (FTE, FTF (feed not fire), slide locking back when rounds are still in the mag, etc.)

[SSA]

...one would put light (and hence muzzle) on the object/person to be identified. This might unnecessarily endanger family members...

That's it for me.
You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

[FireForged]

You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

Very good point indeed.. many schools of thought and I totally agree with this post.

[pax]

The problem with putting a flashlight on the gun is it a huge number of people will then treat the gun like a flashlight. But putting a flashlight on the gun does not turn the gun into a flashlight; it turns it into a deadly weapon with a light on the end of it.

As others have rightly said, you don't point a gun at anyone you have not yet identified as a threat.

pax

[Frank Ettin]

In a class I took at Gunsite not too long ago we did a number of night exercises using a flashlight. The Gunsite perspective on a gun mounted light: they are good for shooting, but one still needs a flashlight for looking and seeing. Remember Rule Two of gun safety -- “never let the muzzle cover something you are not willing to destroy.” One needs to be able to illuminate something without pointing a gun at it

[ezmiraldo]

Frank, thanks for your comment. What you said is what I'm inclined to do: Have light on my CC/HD gun while also carrying separate tactical light, precisely due to very good possibility that body's response to potential threat will direct everything (eyes, light, muzzle) towards that perceived threat - even if one is trying to put the light to the side of the threat when trying to ID the threat... Plus, one is none, two is one - as they say... .

[ezmiraldo]

Constantine, wow!! 700 lumens!! Do you set stuff on fire when you light it up?

[Derbel McDillet]

The purpose of a flashlight is to ID the threat. You'll have other, more important things to manage than the On/Strobe/SOS/Dazzle/Low Power/Off mode of your flashlight. Keep it KISS simple folks.

I discourage multi-mode flashlights for defense use.

[ClydeFrog]

I disagree.

There are some practical applications with lasers & strobe lights but I agree, a weapon light shouldn't be the only choice.
Real use of force or home defense incidents are going to be fast, stressful & chaotic. Tunnel vision, lost of hearing/disorientation, injury, etc can make it difficult.

Clyde

[Caboclo]

Just because you have a light on your gun doesn't mean you have to use it in every situation. Mount one, train and practice with it, and then make a decision. Maybe you decide that it's only needed in very rare situations; (just like the gun itself) that's OK; you don't have to use it, but you have it if you need it.

[RBid]

I need a hand held light to navigate the upstairs, where the bedrooms are. Once I've confirmed that my kids are behind me, I would rather have both hands on the pistol. Thank goodness for PJ pants with pockets.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Originally Posted by ezmiraldo

Constantine, wow!! 700 lumens!! Do you set stuff on fire when you light it up?

Ha! Real talk, it's turned on twice in my pocket and I've realized it because my leg felt like it was on fire.

Buy yes, I have that on me at all times and at night I attach my Streamlight TLR-1s for CCW and HD.

[leadcounsel]

You don't point a gun at anything unless you already know you're willing to shoot it. You don't point your gun with a flashlight on it at something to see what it is.

I disagree. A quality light will illuminate enough of an average household room that you need not point it AT the dark figure, but maybe at the low ready, or toward the corner 30 degrees away with your finger off the trigger. That will illuminate enough to allow you to determine friend or foe, and identify a threat or non-threat.

I do also have, and am trained to use, the FBI flashlight technique. But I prefer to have a free hand for defense, opening doors, turning on lights, and grabbling if necessary, grabbing something like the phone, keys, a small child if needed, etc.

If it would fit in my holster, I'd carry it on my carry gun. But the bulk is prohibitive. And when I'm out in public, I'm generally in well light areas, and can't imagine much scenario where I can't identify a threat versus non-threat. I'm awake and alter and have situational awareness.

Different from that is Home Defense. Nightstand gun has light. I expect it to be handy. If I'm at home, I may be awoken and need immediate light.

[spacecoast]

I prefer to light the house with a central source of light than enables me to see anything I need to see. Besides, if awoken my eyes are dark-adjusted anyway. It's amazing what you can see with just a little light if you try.

[1DrnkMxR]

I agree with Leadcounsel, you don't need to point your weapon mounted light directly on somesone, you could shine it on the floor and it would bounce the light enough to light up the whole room.